Bungie Had It Right

Games Other Halo
1

"Two men enter, the better man leaves, the lesser man is respawning, and that’s Halo."

  • The lesser man should not be instant-spawning, then finishing off the wounded better man within a few seconds.

"We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."

  • Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.

"That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"

  • NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.

Bungie managed to preserve these important components while spicing up the gameplay with armor abilities. The game still felt like Halo. Halo 4 should have never added perks mimicking the systems found in modern shooters.

While 343 had some good ideas(Join In Progress being one), the unsatisfying ones out-weighed the good ones, resulting in the multiplayer being a mess for some. I’m speaking for myself and any others that share the same frustrations. I’m not trying to bash 343, hate on them for what they did, and praise Bungie, our Lord and Savior.

No. I just want these things to serve as a reminder as to what Halo’s all about. What made it unique and enjoyable.

Scoring:
What was wrong with simply scoring a point for your team? What was the reason for adding a simple zero at the end of each point? What good does it do to score 10 points instead of 1?

"Hey guys, I think it would be a great idea to trash traditional Halo scoring and toss a bunch of large numbers at the screen just like that other billion dollar game!"

Choices:
We were supposed to have choices in regards to ranged weapons, right? So why give us four weapons to choose from; knowing that we’re all going to choose the same one in the end?

Armor:
What the hell were the designers thinking when crafting Halo 4’s armor pieces? They are undeniably ugly! They don’t resemble something out of the Halo universe! Hell, a crap ranking system AND terrible armor to rewarded with? Why?

NO UNNECESSARY PERKS.
NO SINGLE GO-TO WEAPON FOR EVERY SITUATION.
NO POWER WEAPONS AND MORE UNNECESSARY ABILITIES VIA KILLSTREAKS.
NO ABSENCE OF POWER AND NON-POWER WEAPONS ON THE MAP.
NO UNNECESSARY SCORING SYSTEM.
NO GENERIC RANKING SYSTEM.

> Refine and Improve, Not Change and Remove…

Source:

2

If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.

Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?

3

> If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
>
> Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?

Bungie added AA’s(A HUGE change for its time) yet Reach felt ten times more like Halo than 4? And it still felt fresh and new, yet familiar.

And yes. People do want the same gameplay. Because that same gameplay is what makes Halo, Halo. Not something that mirrors every generic Modern FPS on the market.

4

> If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
>
> Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?

I would have loved halo 3 again

5

Ahhh Beautiful post… :D. Took the words right out of my mind.

I don’t Halo 4. It’s not a terrible game(It’s very Bad, not enough to be terrible though!), but it’s not a good one either, a hollow shell of the Halo universe with the cream filling removed and replaced with something bland and tasteless.

It reminds you of Halo, but it’s not Halo. Nothing is “improved”, it’s just different, and there’s a great deal less of it too. The Prometheans are terrible enemies, not at all fun to fight. Their weapons are boring and uninteresting, and the game’s campaign FORCES them on you. The music is forgettable at best, you can mute it and not notice a difference. The new design ethic feels like it doesn’t even belong in the same evolutionary tree as Halo, especially the new Spartan IVs and Marine BDUs. The new multiplayer format, why try to be like Call of Duty; Halo was distinct, this is just depressing. Spartan OPs makes me miss Firefight, which I originally didn’t care for in the first place, but at least Firefight mixes it up a bit instead of throwing the same mission and recycled audio back at you. Worst of all the fireshare WAS STILL broken 2 months after release!

It also doesn’t feel worth the asking price. Content-wise it lines up more with ODST than Reach or even 3.

Again, I won’t say it’s a terrible game, it’s just not a good one, and what irritates me is that this is what we’re getting now instead of real Halo.

6

> If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
>
> Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?

^ this, you can pop Halo 3 backin anytime.

you are rightthough, Bungie had it right… but messed it up with Reach, now 343 is fixing it.:slight_smile:

7

> > If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
> >
> > Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?
>
> Bungie added AA’s(A HUGE change for its time) yet Reach felt ten times more like Halo than 4? And it still felt fresh and new, yet familiar.
>
> And yes. People do want the same gameplay. Because that same gameplay is what makes Halo, Halo. Not something that mirrors every generic Modern FPS on the market.

The AAs added to Reach was too much for some people, but I liked the change.

Do you feel 343 have changed too much at once in this game, or would you have preferred no change at all?

8

> > > If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
> > >
> > > Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?
> >
> > Bungie added AA’s(A HUGE change for its time) yet Reach felt ten times more like Halo than 4? And it still felt fresh and new, yet familiar.
> >
> > And yes. People do want the same gameplay. Because that same gameplay is what makes Halo, Halo. Not something that mirrors every generic Modern FPS on the market.
>
> The AAs added to Reach was too much for some people, but I liked the change.
>
> Do you feel 343 have changed too much at once in this game, or would you have preferred no change at all?

Yet adding more AA’s, Killstreaks, Perks, easily obtained armor via crappy Ranking System, the absence of Forge World, broken Custom Games, a Theater mode unfriendly to Machinima makers is better?

Are you serious? All we needed was a refined Reach with a few little changes then most of us would have most likely been more than satisfied.

“But oh no, this is 343’s Halo! They want to be unique!”

Oh yeah? By trashing Bungie’s Halo and replacing it with a generic Modern FPS with Halo skins?

9

> > > > If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
> > > >
> > > > Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?
> > >
> > > Bungie added AA’s(A HUGE change for its time) yet Reach felt ten times more like Halo than 4? And it still felt fresh and new, yet familiar.
> > >
> > > And yes. People do want the same gameplay. Because that same gameplay is what makes Halo, Halo. Not something that mirrors every generic Modern FPS on the market.
> >
> > The AAs added to Reach was too much for some people, but I liked the change.
> >
> > Do you feel 343 have changed too much at once in this game, or would you have preferred no change at all?
>
> Yet adding more AA’s, Killstreaks, Perks, easily obtained armor via crappy Ranking System, the absence of Forge World, broken Custom Games, a Theater mode unfriendly to Machinima makers is better?
>
> Are you serious? All we needed was a refined Reach with a few little changes then most of us would have most likely been more than satisfied.
>
> “But oh no, this is 343’s Halo! They want to be unique!”
>
> Oh yeah? By trashing Bungie’s Halo and replacing it with a generic Modern FPS with Halo skins?

This x2,000

10

> If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
>
> Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?

Halo 3 is close to Dead. Damn you Halo 4. I don’t like playing social slayer 24/7. Halo reach was good as well. I still play Halo Reach. It still felt like halo and didn’t copy COD like it said. I am one of the few people who liked that game during it’s lifespan.

Halo 3 is dead. It’s 5 or 6? Years old and it would obviously be in this state. It is incredible. Halo 4 has lost it’s population in a mere 3 months. Halo 3 has lost it in 5 years but is still decent.

You should know better about Halo 3!

Yes I want the same gameplay with new twists which was unique. E.g forge, dual wielding and AA’s and Equipment and Theatre. These new additions are small but at the same time become big. Copying COD and changing the core formula is pure wrong and yoink! BTW I would rather have the same formula like halo 3/reach improved than a game which copies other games and changes it’s core formula to become bland, tasteless and Generic!

11

> "We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."
> - Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.
>
> "That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"
> - NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.

The Halo 2 and 3 BRs would like a word with you. Both were just as much a “super-weapon that works in all cases” as the Halo 4 DMR.

12

> > > > If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
> > > >
> > > > Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?
> > >
> > > Bungie added AA’s(A HUGE change for its time) yet Reach felt ten times more like Halo than 4? And it still felt fresh and new, yet familiar.
> > >
> > > And yes. People do want the same gameplay. Because that same gameplay is what makes Halo, Halo. Not something that mirrors every generic Modern FPS on the market.
> >
> > The AAs added to Reach was too much for some people, but I liked the change.
> >
> > Do you feel 343 have changed too much at once in this game, or would you have preferred no change at all?
>
> Yet adding more AA’s, Killstreaks, Perks, easily obtained armor via crappy Ranking System, the absence of Forge World, broken Custom Games, a Theater mode unfriendly to Machinima makers is better?
>
> Are you serious?

Mixed feelings on some of those. I like most of the changes to Matchmaking, keeps it fresh, (I realise I’m at odds with the majority on the forums about that though).

But there’s certain things they removed that I cannot work out why - precision placement in Forge, Firefight, Theater for Campaign/Spartan OPs and reduced Custom Game options being some of them.

13

> > "We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."
> > - Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.
> >
> > "That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"
> > - NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.
>
> The Halo 2 and 3 BRs would like a word with you. Both were just as much a “super-weapon that works in all cases” as the Halo 4 DMR.

If i’m remembering correctly, the Carbine, dual-wielded weapon combos, and even the Assault Rifle did equal amounts of slaughtering if in the right hands. I for one didn’t use the BR as a go-to weapon till later into 3’s life cycle.

Plus the 2 and 3 BRs were garbage at long-range, unlike the new DMR which can out-gun most range weapons and even CQC weapons.

14

> > > > > If you want all of those things, pop your Halo 3 disk in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do people really want the same gameplay in every successive game with new maps being the only difference?
> > > >
> > > > Bungie added AA’s(A HUGE change for its time) yet Reach felt ten times more like Halo than 4? And it still felt fresh and new, yet familiar.
> > > >
> > > > And yes. People do want the same gameplay. Because that same gameplay is what makes Halo, Halo. Not something that mirrors every generic Modern FPS on the market.
> > >
> > > The AAs added to Reach was too much for some people, but I liked the change.
> > >
> > > Do you feel 343 have changed too much at once in this game, or would you have preferred no change at all?
> >
> > Yet adding more AA’s, Killstreaks, Perks, easily obtained armor via crappy Ranking System, the absence of Forge World, broken Custom Games, a Theater mode unfriendly to Machinima makers is better?
> >
> > Are you serious?
>
> Mixed feelings on some of those. I like most of the changes to Matchmaking, keeps it fresh, (I realise I’m at odds with the majority on the forums about that though).
>
> <mark>But there’s certain things they removed that I cannot work out why - precision placement in Forge, Firefight, Theater for Campaign/Spartan OPs and reduced Custom Game options being some of them.</mark>

And that’s what makes or breaks Halo for many. Not everyone looks to Matchmaking to satisfy them.

15

> > "We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."
> > - Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.
> >
> > "That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"
> > - NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.
>
> The Halo 2 and 3 BRs would like a word with you. Both were just as much a “super-weapon that works in all cases” as the Halo 4 DMR.

You had to find the br in halo 2 and 3 and it couldnt kill people across the map , the dmr you spawn with It and has about as much range as a sniper

16

> > "We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."
> > - Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.
> >
> > "That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"
> > - NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to
> > The Halo 2 and 3 BRs would like a word with you. Both were just as much a “super-that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.
>
> weapon that works in all cases” as the Halo 4 DMR.

What are you talking about BR sucked out of it’s range unlike the DMR. Which can be used easily from the end of the map.

I used to counter BR users easily with sniper, swords and the AR/Shotgun, carbine and heck even dual wield weapons and rockets. You had to use skill.

SKILL! It took SKILL!

Halo 4 is no longer like that. I can easily counter power weapons(which are literally easy to get. That they shouldn’t be called power weapons anymore!) with the DMR. I found the BR hard to use all the time because of the power/non-power weapons and skill involved around the map. Does halo 4 do that? NO! Halo needs to be an arena shooter again!

17

> > > "We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."
> > > - Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.
> > >
> > > "That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"
> > > - NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to
> > > The Halo 2 and 3 BRs would like a word with you. Both were just as much a “super-that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.
> >
> > weapon that works in all cases” as the Halo 4 DMR.
>
> What are you talking about BR sucked out of it’s range unlike the DMR. Which can be used easily from the end of the map.
>
> I used to counter BR users easily with sniper, swords and the AR/Shotgun, carbine and heck even dual wield weapons and rockets. You had to use skill.
>
> <mark>SKILL! It took SKILL!</mark>
>
> Halo 4 is no longer like that. I can easily counter power weapons(which are literally easy to get. That they shouldn’t be called power weapons anymore!) with the DMR. I found the BR hard to use all the time because of the power/non-power weapons and skill involved around the map. Does halo 4 do that? NO! Halo needs to be an arena shooter again!

The Reach DMR at least required pacing your shots while the Halo 4 DMR is just a spam weapon with a crap excuse for bloom.

18

> > > "We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."
> > > - Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.
> > >
> > > "That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"
> > > - NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.
> >
> > The Halo 2 and 3 BRs would like a word with you. Both were just as much a “super-weapon that works in all cases” as the Halo 4 DMR.
>
> If i’m remembering correctly, the Carbine, dual-wielded weapon combos, and even the Assault Rifle did equal amounts of slaughtering if in the right hands. I for one didn’t use the BR as a go-to weapon till later into 3’s life cycle.

Depends on experience. I remember just as many threads in Bungie’s old Halo 3 forums (and Reach forums before that game came out) about the power of the BR in comparison to other weapons.

> <mark>You had to find the br in halo 2 and 3</mark> and it couldnt kill people across the map , the dmr you spawn with It and has about as much range as a sniper

Only in non-BR start gametypes. After a while, in both games, BR starts were default in many gametypes, and preferred by many (or at least many vocal) members of the community. The BR could also very much kill across the map. One reason it was harder, though, was because Halo 3 lacked hit-scan. Cross-mapping with the BR in Halo 2 (and Vista) was pretty easy in my experience.

19

> > > > "We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."
> > > > - Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.
> > > >
> > > > "That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"
> > > > - NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to
> > > > The Halo 2 and 3 BRs would like a word with you. Both were just as much a “super-that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.
> > >
> > > weapon that works in all cases” as the Halo 4 DMR.
> >
> > What are you talking about BR sucked out of it’s range unlike the DMR. Which can be used easily from the end of the map.
> >
> > I used to counter BR users easily with sniper, swords and the AR/Shotgun, carbine and heck even dual wield weapons and rockets. You had to use skill.
> >
> > <mark>SKILL! It took SKILL!</mark>
> >
> > Halo 4 is no longer like that. I can easily counter power weapons(which are literally easy to get. That they shouldn’t be called power weapons anymore!) with the DMR. I found the BR hard to use all the time because of the power/non-power weapons and skill involved around the map. Does halo 4 do that? NO! Halo needs to be an arena shooter again!
>
> The Reach DMR at least required pacing your shots while the Halo 4 DMR is just a spam weapon with a crap excuse for bloom.

I loved the reach DMR. It was beautiful and fun to use! :smiley: I feel like superman with the Halo 4s dmr. As much as I like it is as much as I hate it. I find Halo 4 too easy with the DMR. That’s why I got bored too quick. No skill. A skill ranking system is not needed if the game actually takes skill like reach! Halo 4 doesn’t take skill to be good so what’s the point of a skill ranking system. Halo 4 is just COD!

20

> > > > "We don’t ever want to create one super-weapon that works in all cases. Because that tends to make the game fairly dull, it’s really up to the player to decide how they want to play on a particular map to their choice."
> > > > - Halo 4’s DMR = All-purpose super-weapon.
> > > >
> > > > "That’s, I think, Halo at its best, which is like, making these choices"
> > > > - NOT choosing the same super-weapon(DMR) and having no choice but to stick to that same weapon because it out-guns EVERYTHING.
> > >
> > > The Halo 2 and 3 BRs would like a word with you. Both were just as much a “super-weapon that works in all cases” as the Halo 4 DMR.
> >
> > If i’m remembering correctly, the Carbine, dual-wielded weapon combos, and even the Assault Rifle did equal amounts of slaughtering if in the right hands. I for one didn’t use the BR as a go-to weapon till later into 3’s life cycle.
>
> Depends on experience. I remember just as many threads in Bungie’s old Halo 3 forums (and Reach forums before that game came out) about the power of the BR in comparison to other weapons.
>
>
>
> > <mark>You had to find the br in halo 2 and 3</mark> and it couldnt kill people across the map , the dmr you spawn with It and has about as much range as a sniper
>
> Only in non-BR start gametypes. After a while, in both games, BR starts were default in many gametypes, and preferred by many (or at least many vocal) members of the community. The BR could also very much kill across the map. One reason it was harder, though, was because Halo 3 lacked hit-scan. Cross-mapping with the BR in Halo 2 (and Vista) was pretty easy in my experience.

Even so it had less range br had 2 x scope and took more aiming skill. It didnt have extreme bullet magnetism either and as quick kill time