I get this is Halo and all but the bullet sponge halo has always had is just a very frustrating gameplay style. I don’t mind them having those modes for people who enjoy it, but I would like to see more modes offered without shields so its just your basic health much like swat.
Also Warzone Firefight some of these NPC have such absurd amounts of health its ridiculous. The promethean robot NPC or whatever they are, literally all they do is absorb all your bullets. Elites have an absurd amount of shield. It really just goes on.
Its fine to make the NPC hit as hard as they do in the harder modes like Legendary but it’s annoying when you make them hit harder to where we die in like 3 shots yet we need to unload on them.
Reason like this is why most gun fights are so long distanced and everyone just sits back in these little camping spots. Theres really no room to play aggressive in this game unless you play a mode like SWAT
> 2533274800178960;1:
> I get this is Halo and all but the bullet sponge halo has always had is just a very frustrating gameplay style. I don’t mind them having those modes for people who enjoy it, but I would like to see more modes offered without shields so its just your basic health much like swat.
>
> Also Warzone Firefight some of these NPC have such absurd amounts of health its ridiculous. The promethean robot NPC or whatever they are, literally all they do is absorb all your bullets. Elites have an absurd amount of shield. It really just goes on.
>
> Its fine to make the NPC hit as hard as they do in the harder modes like Legendary but it’s annoying when you make them hit harder to where we die in like 3 shots yet we need to unload on them.
>
> Reason like this is why most gun fights are so long distanced and everyone just sits back in these little camping spots. Theres really no room to play aggressive in this game unless you play a mode like SWAT
Swat is toilet and isn’t halo what so ever. Halo is about earing your kills with precision shots. One head while precise it is easy to get. COD is about getting those easy kills IMO. Now I can agree with the bosses in warzone . Simply making them st sponges that walk around the same small area isn’t all that tough. They should have made them move around the map more and shoot from cover or something like that.
Its more of using the right reqs for me. They may be bullet sponges in wzff cause most of the time teammates use loadout weapons only instead of spending their reqs -.-
As far as “bullet sponges in pvp” goes, that’s just the halo way man. It’s always been like that and I’m glad it is. Means it takes actual thought to kill a foe, and you can just go around one tapping everyone with an AR. And while I do agree the npcs in firefight are literally insane, it is also supposed to be that way or else it wouldn’t be a crazy challenge.
“Bullet sponge” in PVP and PVM are the same concept but generally very different outcomes, PVP nowdays I personally love shield cause it stops you from dying (more often than not) from panic punchers and naders (such as CoD) although I do feel mid to long range engagements while both opponents are using BR’s are very campy / really hard to kill cause the second you low/empty on shield you regen and you’re back at it shooting at the same guy mid-long range which just feels like wasting bullets IMO, but something like PVM the only thing I can think of is lowering the health of promethean’s cause at least the elites you can use the good ol’ noob combo (plasma pistol headshot) but then again, the extra 10 second engagement does make the campaign noticeably longer which isn’t a bad thing, that way the campaign is only short if you’re intentionally trying to speed run it.
> 2533274816788253;2:
> > 2533274800178960;1:
> > I get this is Halo and all but the bullet sponge halo has always had is just a very frustrating gameplay style. I don’t mind them having those modes for people who enjoy it, but I would like to see more modes offered without shields so its just your basic health much like swat.
> >
> > Also Warzone Firefight some of these NPC have such absurd amounts of health its ridiculous. The promethean robot NPC or whatever they are, literally all they do is absorb all your bullets. Elites have an absurd amount of shield. It really just goes on.
> >
> > Its fine to make the NPC hit as hard as they do in the harder modes like Legendary but it’s annoying when you make them hit harder to where we die in like 3 shots yet we need to unload on them.
> >
> > Reason like this is why most gun fights are so long distanced and everyone just sits back in these little camping spots. Theres really no room to play aggressive in this game unless you play a mode like SWAT
>
> Swat is toilet and isn’t halo what so ever. Halo is about earing your kills with precision shots. One head while precise it is easy to get. COD is about getting those easy kills IMO. Now I can agree with the bosses in warzone . Simply making them st sponges that walk around the same small area isn’t all that tough. They should have made them move around the map more and shoot from cover or something like that.
How would you fix it though? I too think boss battles are really boring in warzone, but with its current game mechanics how could it be come a more interesting battle.
I don’t think swat is a good representation of the classic Halo play that won over so many. If Halo was like swat at its core, it would be horribly dumb.
I do think bullet sponges in firefight are annoying, especially promethean soldiers and the bosses, just shooting at them for ages and for certain targets you don’t know you’re doing damage without the health bar telling you. Also fighting warden eternal, the sponge of sponges, 5 million times in campaign wasn’t helpful. I don’t mind fighting super bulky elites because the shield makes it obvious you are doing damage and will eventually have it down.
Halo is meant to be more of a strategic, set up, surround the enemy kind of game. Not “run at the enemy full speed and stab them” like COD. They have SWAT for people who don’t want to fight off in a gun battle and just want to be all cowboy whoever shoots first wins style. But when you’re a super soldier in a super space suit, it would be silly to die from one or two shots. The whole point of the suit was to make them super weapons. And you can’t have a super weapon that just dies as fast as an unarmored person. Also, firefight doesn’t need changed. On the lowest setting we never lose, we always beat it ridiculously easily. If you are struggling you should make better use of your REQs and try to use some vehicles. They have to make the NPC tough in there because you have a whole bunch of players attacking. But like I said the lowest one we win always 100% of the time. The middle one we win most of the time and lose occasionally if our team isn’t paying attention to the bosses and bringing in enough vehicles. And then the mythic is the same.
> 2533274905191374;4:
> As far as “bullet sponges in pvp” goes, that’s just the halo way man. It’s always been like that and I’m glad it is. Means it takes actual thought to kill a foe, and you can just go around one tapping everyone with an AR. And while I do agree the npcs in firefight are literally insane, it is also supposed to be that way or else it wouldn’t be a crazy challenge.
It’s not a challenge though, it’s just crazy. Bullet sponges are just a cheap way to immitate difficulty, at least in terms of AI, and WZFF is no exception to that.
> 2535434457651384;10:
> > 2533274905191374;4:
> > As far as “bullet sponges in pvp” goes, that’s just the halo way man. It’s always been like that and I’m glad it is. Means it takes actual thought to kill a foe, and you can just go around one tapping everyone with an AR. And while I do agree the npcs in firefight are literally insane, it is also supposed to be that way or else it wouldn’t be a crazy challenge.
>
> It’s not a challenge though, it’s just crazy. Bullet sponges are just a cheap way to immitate difficulty, at least in terms of AI, and WZFF is no exception to that.
That’s because by design, Firefight with REQs are too easy, especially with 8 people.
REQs provide you with access to a large amount of vehicles and weapons, and even then you have near-infinite ammo for loadout weapons. You don’t have to actually fight for any advantage in battle, you can spawn them at will.
In Halo 5, you’re so blatantly OP from a design standpoint that the only way to present an actual challenge is to make the enemies even more OP, and give you a time limit on top of them so you’re not steamrolling everything with 8 tanks.
Seriously, everything that’s not a boss dies in under 3 shots from the basic tank. Even Hunters and Knights. Now throw in the Ultra Wraith, or Hannibal Tank, or Phaetons.
I have a lot of gripes with Firefight and I’m very vocal about it, but I understand why 343i did make Firefight this way. Things are going to be either too easy or too hard, and the balance is very fickle.
But the thread isn’t even isolated to Firefight. OP’s saying that he wants game modes without shields to begin with, closer to Swat.
> 2533274833081329;11:
> > 2535434457651384;10:
> > > 2533274905191374;4:
> > > As far as “bullet sponges in pvp” goes, that’s just the halo way man. It’s always been like that and I’m glad it is. Means it takes actual thought to kill a foe, and you can just go around one tapping everyone with an AR. And while I do agree the npcs in firefight are literally insane, it is also supposed to be that way or else it wouldn’t be a crazy challenge.
> >
> > It’s not a challenge though, it’s just crazy. Bullet sponges are just a cheap way to immitate difficulty, at least in terms of AI, and WZFF is no exception to that.
>
> That’s because by design, Firefight with REQs are too easy, especially with 8 people.
>
> REQs provide you with access to a large amount of vehicles and weapons, and even then you have near-infinite ammo for loadout weapons. You don’t have to actually fight for any advantage in battle, you can spawn them at will.
>
> In Halo 5, you’re so blatantly OP from a design standpoint that the only way to present an actual challenge is to make the enemies even more OP, and give you a time limit on top of them so you’re not steamrolling everything with 8 tanks.
>
> Seriously, everything that’s not a boss dies in under 3 shots from the basic tank. Even Hunters and Knights. Now throw in the Ultra Wraith, or Hannibal Tank, or Phaetons.
>
> I have a lot of gripes with Firefight and I’m very vocal about it, but I understand why 343i did make Firefight this way. Things are going to be either too easy or too hard, and the balance is very fickle.
>
> But the thread isn’t even isolated to Firefight. OP’s saying that he wants game modes without shields to begin with, closer to Swat.
When it comes to AI I can agree, bullet sponge bosses and such isn’t fun and to me is the wrong way to make them more difficult, it’s not even a halo thing, it’s pretty much most games that use AI opponents. High damage dealing bullet sponges aren’t fun, they need to add to AI difficulty by actually making them use various moves and ways to attack, make them more unpredictable. One or two hanky guys isn’t a huge issue but when the bulk of them are it then just becomes a tedious chore. Halo in general just needs to scrap bosses cuz they’ve never been entertaining to begin with.
as for your swat reference: that just needs to stick to swat cuz that’s not how halo is traditionally played, it’s always been about the longer ttk and strategy and I wouldn’t be as interested if the majority of halo was made like swat, I’d go to CoD instead because it would at least do it better.
In Campaign, Warzone, and Warzonefirefight, I never feel like I am endlessly shooting at a elite or soldier. I always treat fights against elites and soldiers like fighting a spartan. I always follow this rule when engaging elites or soldiers with a precision weapon: A certain precision weapon will take X number of shots to break the shield/armor and a final shot to the head. For example, if you are using a Battle Rifle against a soldier, three shots will break the armor, but, you must wait for the animation to complete before shooting its glowing head.
Bosses are a different story though, I do believe that they have an insane amount of health. Especially knight and hunter bosses, even with their weak spots, require using a ton of ammo to kill.
> 2533274816788253;2:
> > 2533274800178960;1:
> > I get this is Halo and all but the bullet sponge halo has always had is just a very frustrating gameplay style. I don’t mind them having those modes for people who enjoy it, but I would like to see more modes offered without shields so its just your basic health much like swat.
> >
> > Also Warzone Firefight some of these NPC have such absurd amounts of health its ridiculous. The promethean robot NPC or whatever they are, literally all they do is absorb all your bullets. Elites have an absurd amount of shield. It really just goes on.
> >
> > Its fine to make the NPC hit as hard as they do in the harder modes like Legendary but it’s annoying when you make them hit harder to where we die in like 3 shots yet we need to unload on them.
> >
> > Reason like this is why most gun fights are so long distanced and everyone just sits back in these little camping spots. Theres really no room to play aggressive in this game unless you play a mode like SWAT
>
> Swat is toilet and isn’t halo what so ever. Halo is about earing your kills with precision shots. One head while precise it is easy to get. COD is about getting those easy kills IMO. Now I can agree with the bosses in warzone . Simply making them st sponges that walk around the same small area isn’t all that tough. They should have made them move around the map more and shoot from cover or something like that.
I agree with LethalQ here. Personally, I’m not big on SWAT, never have been, but for me the lure of Halo has always been equal starts and the ability to take more than one shot. Explains why I wasn’t big on Halo 4 and the Warzone mide in Halo 5, which I do feel like is a completely other style of Halo game. I think all the different weapon types in powers and whatnot are fun but should be kept in one mode and 1 mode only and that should be firefight. 343I should have focused on firefight and not warzone which in my opinion was a huge waste of resources and time. I just feel like it was a missed opportunity big-time especially how you see how well received and how much people like The Horde mode in Gears of War 4, but I’m getting off topic here so I digress.
Anyways, those two reasons are the main reasons why I can’t stand games COD, BF and so forth. Those kind of games are I see you first your dead 95% of the time. I find them boring and not challenging at all. What pisses me off the most in those games is being killed by someone not because they have more skill than me, but because they have more time to play than I do so they have unlocked X weapon, attachment whatever and since I’m say level 50 I haven’t unlocked it yet. If I want to play that kind of game all play MMO style one thanks.
For me Halos style of gameplay (minus halo 4) is number 1 and by FAR the most competitive and fair.
For me, I think the only thing that separates the Halo franchise from games like CS Go and COD is this bullet sponge. With more game modes without the shields, It will just become one of these average FPS games. And also those forerunner robots you speak of are in fact called Crawlers (Small dog ones), Watchers (the flying things that are small), Soldiers (The enemies similar to you) and Knights, the big yoink ones that are really annoying to kill, but still aren’t bad enough to warrant complaints.
> 2533274800178960;1:
> I get this is Halo and all but the bullet sponge halo has always had is just a very frustrating gameplay style. I don’t mind them having those modes for people who enjoy it, but I would like to see more modes offered without shields so its just your basic health much like swat.
>
> Also Warzone Firefight some of these NPC have such absurd amounts of health its ridiculous. The promethean robot NPC or whatever they are, literally all they do is absorb all your bullets. Elites have an absurd amount of shield. It really just goes on.
>
> Its fine to make the NPC hit as hard as they do in the harder modes like Legendary but it’s annoying when you make them hit harder to where we die in like 3 shots yet we need to unload on them.
>
> Reason like this is why most gun fights are so long distanced and everyone just sits back in these little camping spots. Theres really no room to play aggressive in this game unless you play a mode like SWAT
With the firefight aspect I agree with you but arena you are so wrong it hurts a little. You do not have to play swat (trust me I hate swat so I know) slayer or arena are easy to play agressive or even PTFO style. You just have to “get good”. I don’t mean that in the douchy you suck learn to play matter I mean that as in you just need to practice at the game with your strafing map placement and aim. I can play aggresive support or PTFO. So halo definitely let’s you
I am very fond of the bullet sponge stuff in warzone. I like how long it takes to kill everything. The “i need to do X, to kill X” is a core part of halo, in arena and warzone.
I think the Grunt Goblins are a good example of a fun boss. They move around and will focus on one attacker or shoot off a power weapon that can hurt or take out multiple Spartans.
Knight on the other hand will sometimes get glitchy if several Spartans attack from different sides. They also barely venture outside of their spawn point.
I agree with your WZFF outlook, that the enemy bosses have an absurd amount of health, even for Heroic. However, you could not be more wrong about how having shields in PvP hurts Halo. In fact, quite a lot of people (myself included) feel that the current shields we have in Halo 5 are too weak, and that the time to kill needs to be longer! Having gun battles that last more than a few seconds with an opponent makes things very interesting, and that is why Halo 3 was the most fun. Believe me, if 343i ever took us back to the gameplay of Halo 3, fans would be creaming their pants, big time!