Bullet Sponge AI Should Be A Crime

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Whoever at 343 decided that AI should be walking bullet sponges should be fired. I don’t think it should take more than two Scorpions to take down an AI boss like a Knight Champion, Hunter Elders, or Sponge Eternals. Likewise, it shouldn’t take an entire REQ Rocket Launcher, be it a SPNKR, or the normal one, or any level 5+ REQ to defeat certain bosses. No expensive REQ weapon shouldn’t be enough as just one player to take down some of these bosses.
I understand 343 wants a nearly impossible completion ratio of their matches so people keep playing, but their methods is just frustrating. Fighting Wardens and having him protected by a dozen Promethean Sponges armed with Incineration cannons only makes the game frustrating and not even fun. I still play Warzone FF but I believe this just is way too overkill. They could’ve simply upped his health a slight deal instead of giving him garrisons of Knights armed with one of the game’s top ordinance weapons.

I also am no fan of the AI having near flawless aim with weaponry. I noticed the Elites tend to spam grenades every five seconds or so, and can lead their throws, especially if you thrust to evade. This is highly overkill and tends to be a downside to a lot of weapons. The Prometheans? Don’t even get me started. Their aim shouldn’t span the entire map if you have an air vehicle or any vehicle for that matter.

I think Halo 5 Warzone is highly unbalanced for the sake of the AI having such durability and aim.

If it took two scorpion rounds to kill hunters and knights that wouldn’t be fair because then they would BARELY qualify as a boss. If it took two rounds for the warden the game would be broken

Who ever was it, he/she is such a genius.

So if the AI aim is nerfed and their health significantly reduced, how would you make the enemy challenging? You’ve brought forth a complaint but haven’t proposed a solution.

> 2533274974812637;2:
> If it took two scorpion rounds to kill hunters and knights that wouldn’t be fair because then they would BARELY qualify as a boss. If it took two rounds for the warden the game would be broken

I don’t think Silver Delerium meant two scorpion rounds, but two scorpion vehicles.

> 2533274864304862;1:
> I don’t think it should take more than two Scorpions to take down an AI boss like a Knight Champion, Hunter Elders, or Sponge Eternals. Likewise, it shouldn’t take an entire REQ Rocket Launcher, be it a SPNKR, or the normal one, or any level 5+ REQ to defeat certain bosses. No expensive REQ weapon shouldn’t be enough as just one player to take down some of these bosses.

I see how you’re frustrated, and you have every right to be. However, I don’t completely agree with this. If one spartan can take these bosses down, why do you need a Fireteam of 8? On the other hand, I don’t like spawning weapons in Firefight because, like you pointed out, they don’t deal enough damage. Why would I spend 5 or 6 REQs on a weapon that will most likely run out of ammo, when I can spawn with a vehicle that has unlimited ammo? I can deal more damage with a ghost (3 REQs) than I can with an incineration cannon (6 REQs). You also pointed out that “They could’ve simply upped his health a slight deal” instead of all the adds near the bosses. Wouldn’t that just make them more of a bullet sponge?

> 2533274864304862;1:
> I also am no fan of the AI having near flawless aim with weaponry. I noticed the Elites tend to spam grenades every five seconds or so, and can lead their throws, especially if you thrust to evade. This is highly overkill and tends to be a downside to a lot of weapons. The Prometheans? Don’t even get me started. Their aim shouldn’t span the entire map if you have an air vehicle or any vehicle for that matter.

This I agree with. While they should have very good aim, I don’t believe that they should have 100% accuracy. The only way that they miss is if, within the time it takes the bullet to reach you, you have changed your velocity vector.

> 2533274974812637;2:
> If it took two scorpion rounds to kill hunters and knights that wouldn’t be fair because then they would BARELY qualify as a boss. If it took two rounds for the warden the game would be broken

Halo has never had ‘bosses’, just a spectrum of enemy strength, flood spores at the bottom and hunters at the top.
You could consider the heritic, the prophet and guilty spark as bosses during the original trilogy but they are not bullet sponges but rather characters.
Halo has been ‘realistic’ until halo 5

In CE a hunter died from 1 scorpion round on legendary - thats realistic
In all the halos a wraith has died from 2 scorpion rounds i believe - thats realistic too

The only reason everything is a bullet sponge in halo 5 is to sell REQs and thats sad, its sad that 343 would compromise the game to make profit.
The fact there is (1) a time limit. and (2) bullet sponge enemys is so players have to call in reqs to win, you are forced to call in reqs to win.

In reality a scropion should be able to kill:
A wraith in 2 shots
A hunter in 1 shot
The warden eternal in 4 to 5 shots

But that would hurt 343s wallet because players wouldnt be forced to buy reqs

Just think how different the game would be if there was no req system… We wouldnt have bullet sponge enemys for one.

Its really sad to see this.

They sure are annoying, but there’s an easy way around most of them. You can easily take down any non-vehicular boss with a Hailstorm, and it only costs 3 points.

Using Hailstorm against a legendary knight.

Still not as bad as the high-level AI in Warframe.

> 2533274978553590;7:
> They sure are annoying, but there’s an easy way around most of them. You can easily take down any non-vehicular boss with a Hailstorm, and it only costs 3 points.
>
> Using Hailstorm against a legendary knight.

Mehh, even that’s not necessary. All you need is loadout weapons. Kinetic bolts would be nice, but all you have to do is shoot the weak spots on the Knight.

> 2533274829712639;5:
> > 2533274974812637;2:
> > If it took two scorpion rounds to kill hunters and knights that wouldn’t be fair because then they would BARELY qualify as a boss. If it took two rounds for the warden the game would be broken
>
>
> I don’t think Silver Delerium meant two scorpion rounds, but two scorpion vehicles.
>
>
> > 2533274864304862;1:
> > I don’t think it should take more than two Scorpions to take down an AI boss like a Knight Champion, Hunter Elders, or Sponge Eternals. Likewise, it shouldn’t take an entire REQ Rocket Launcher, be it a SPNKR, or the normal one, or any level 5+ REQ to defeat certain bosses. No expensive REQ weapon shouldn’t be enough as just one player to take down some of these bosses.
>
>
> I see how you’re frustrated, and you have every right to be. However, I don’t completely agree with this. If one spartan can take these bosses down, why do you need a Fireteam of 8? On the other hand, I don’t like spawning weapons in Firefight because, like you pointed out, they don’t deal enough damage. Why would I spend 5 or 6 REQs on a weapon that will most likely run out of ammo, when I can spawn with a vehicle that has unlimited ammo? I can deal more damage with a ghost (3 REQs) than I can with an incineration cannon (6 REQs). You also pointed out that “They could’ve simply upped his health a slight deal” instead of all the adds near the bosses. Wouldn’t that just make them more of a bullet sponge?
>
>
> > 2533274864304862;1:
> > I also am no fan of the AI having near flawless aim with weaponry. I noticed the Elites tend to spam grenades every five seconds or so, and can lead their throws, especially if you thrust to evade. This is highly overkill and tends to be a downside to a lot of weapons. The Prometheans? Don’t even get me started. Their aim shouldn’t span the entire map if you have an air vehicle or any vehicle for that matter.
>
>
> This I agree with. While they should have very good aim, I don’t believe that they should have 100% accuracy. The only way that they miss is if, within the time it takes the bullet to reach you, you have changed your velocity vector.

Yeah, I don’t mean two scorpion rounds, just the vehicle. Two players should suffice well enough with Scorpions to take down one Warden. I can understand Wraiths and Mantises in the mix as they’re weaker and can support the vehicles should the Wardens stall the vehicles out. The only time this is an issue truly is when you have the Wardens bottle necked up in the corners of the Bases where two spawn along with the Mythic variant.

My frustration with the REQ’s isn’t necessarily a matter of player count necessary to take down the bosses either. It’s more so the fact that the weapons are so under utilized when it takes up so many expensive ones to kill bosses that in reality shouldn’t need so much to kill. In single player they’re easier to kill even. Obviously they’re gonna be stronger to accommodate for the other seven players. You also pointed out that “They could’ve simply upped his health a slight deal” instead of all the adds near the bosses. Wouldn’t that just make them more of a bullet sponge? For this, having them have more health and be less durable to damage would be a more easy way to handle the issue. You can still have all the AI defending him with their weapons, but they would be a bit easier to deal with in that five minute gap.

> 2533274803493024;4:
> So if the AI aim is nerfed and their health significantly reduced, how would you make the enemy challenging? You’ve brought forth a complaint but haven’t proposed a solution.

This is controversial. I never presented a solution yet as I am curious to see how others would approach this.

But…if I were to reduce aim quality on the AI, I wouldn’t drastically change it. It would be similar difficulty to the AI of the Campaign, where they are still difficult, but it’s not like the bullet magnetism is inescapable like in the Firefight, or the ability for an AI to stick you from a great distance. Legitimately earlier, I was groundpounding an elite who threw a grenade from nearly sixty feet away and stuck me while I was descending to hit him and all it did was kill me and weaken his shields. Such an attack should have killed him by the explosion and my impact since it was a two-stage event. Normally it would be possible in simple Warzone.

Having the AI tweaked a bit necessarily wouldn’t be a bad thing. They still can wield devastating weapons to combat the slight nerf, as logically that would be a more smart way to go. They also could have more vehicle units in the mix as those aren’t necessarily easy to combat. The only time that is an issue is when you’re on round 2 fighting Banshee Raiders.
As for the health factor of the bosses…they can still have a lot of health, but it’s simply tweaking how much damage they can withstand VS. how much they can deal. Likewise, having more smaller AI like the knights defending would also be a logical balance to the health nerf. Having weapons to deal damage that is fair while still having sufficient challenge is what would be the better route. It still leaves the game a challenge but it leaves you feeling like you have a chance at completing the matches and leaves you feeling like your expensive REQs aren’t being wasted in Vein for only a tiny percentage of damage on a boss/enemy.

> 2535442460223691;6:
> > 2533274974812637;2:
> > If it took two scorpion rounds to kill hunters and knights that wouldn’t be fair because then they would BARELY qualify as a boss. If it took two rounds for the warden the game would be broken
>
>
>
>
> In CE a hunter died from 1 scorpion round on legendary - thats realistic
> In all the halos a wraith has died from 2 scorpion rounds i believe - thats realistic too
>
> The only reason everything is a bullet sponge in halo 5 is to sell REQs and thats sad, its sad that 343 would compromise the game to make profit.
> The fact there is (1) a time limit. and (2) bullet sponge enemys is so players have to call in reqs to win, you are forced to call in reqs to win.
>
> In reality a scropion should be able to kill:
> A wraith in 2 shots
> A hunter in 1 shot
> The warden eternal in 4 to 5 shots
>
> But that would hurt 343s wallet because players wouldnt be forced to buy reqs
>
> Just think how different the game would be if there was no req system… We wouldnt have bullet sponge enemys for one.
>
> Its really sad to see this.

actually in CE the right single round from a sniper or pistol could kill a hunter. even a single melee did the trick.

> 2533274974812637;2:
> If it took two scorpion rounds to kill hunters and knights that wouldn’t be fair because then they would BARELY qualify as a boss. If it took two rounds for the warden the game would be broken

Note I never said rounds. Two rounds would be way two easy. That would be easier than fighting a Warden on Easy. That wouldn’t make sense. I’m talking two of the vehicle in general shooting together to take down the AI boss.

> 2533274803493024;4:
> So if the AI aim is nerfed and their health significantly reduced, how would you make the enemy challenging? You’ve brought forth a complaint but haven’t proposed a solution.

Bring back Reach AI. Where they were evasive and moderately accurate. And most importantly tactically smart.

These AI seem to be sort of tactically smart but just take TOO many shots. Bosses should have a lot of health but not regular AI. This is why elites are way more fun to play agaisnt instead of soldiers.

> 2533274917099112;8:
> Still not as bad as the high-level AI in Warframe.

you can be revived if VOr knocks you down, but when warden oneshots you, it is over.

> 2533274909329991;14:
> > 2533274917099112;8:
> > Still not as bad as the high-level AI in Warframe.
>
>
> you can be revived if VOr knocks you down, but when warden oneshots you, it is over.

Fair enough.

> 2533274813071248;13:
> > 2533274803493024;4:
> > So if the AI aim is nerfed and their health significantly reduced, how would you make the enemy challenging? You’ve brought forth a complaint but haven’t proposed a solution.
>
>
> Bring back Reach AI. Where they were evasive and moderately accurate. And most importantly tactically smart.
>
> These AI seem to be sort of tactically smart but just take TOO many shots. Bosses should have a lot of health but not regular AI. This is why elites are way more fun to play agaisnt instead of soldiers.

As much as I’d like that, nobody will bring back old AI designs because nobody wants to associate with previous Halo games interfering with a mew one, especially Reach. But I agree a small chamge like this wouldn’t be bad if it were done.