the difference between perfect and avarage time to kill in halo 5 is to low in my opinion. having lower bullet magnetism (and slightly lower aim assist) across the board would eleviate this problem. it would give halo back its longer killtimes on average, but would give skilled players to better stand their ground during multi- enemy encounters.
you might think missing more shots would feel frustrating, but i think its far more frustrating to be hit by a shot that should have missed. and true perfect kills would feel more rewarding.
this could also apply to npc enemies. it would be harder to hit them, but strafing would make you harder to hit to. this can increase the skillgaps in the game, but also brings fairness to it.
halo 1 and halo 3 good are examples for this. high average ttk, relatively low perfect ttk.
Dude, what a great read. Totally agree, I’ve been saying this for years.
H5 feels way too frantic, even a 100-200ms difference in average TTK would make engagements feel more impactful and reducing the bullet magnetism generosity is probably a decent way to achieve it as well, my other suggestion would be reducing rate of fire on guns little, 10-15% would be plenty.
The only problem with reducing magnetism though is that in general you don’t want to make it FEEL frustrating to try and shoot someone (hence why there’s generous magnetism, it FEELS good). Taht said, I think I’d prefer a little more aim assist but lower magnetism overall, there’s room between H5’s well established ‘insane’ bullet magnetism and something more reasonable that still feels good. I’ve been watching Vetoed’s videos alot, and many times when he complains about shots not registering the reticle is clearly in a ‘miss’ position - we’ve become accustomed to high bullet magnetism and expecting that ‘near enough is good enough’. Would love to see this reversed a little in Infinite.
I also like the idea of the part of the shield that was hit flashing a little more brightly, or leaving a bit of a ‘ripple’ so it’s easy to tell where they were hit, rather than just relying on hitmarkers and sound cues.
What you said about multi-participant fights is so true, in Halo 5 a 2v1 means you die in about 450ms unless you can split sightlines. In previous games I always felt you had a bit more of a chance in those situations.
Edit to add to your bit about 1v1s: In H5 it always just feels like it’s whoever snuck the first shot in that wins. You blast each other, thrust and whoever shot first usually has the edge. I’d love to see a return to the H3 style of 1v1 strafe duels where you could totally turn on someone and just strafe on them, make them miss a couple shots while landing your own and turn around a fight. You also had a chance, with good strafing, to come out of consecutive 1v1s with more shields remaining than you do in H5, meaning you could really go and tear up a section of the map which was SUPER satisfying.
> 2533274794648158;3:
> We’ve needed faster kill times since Halo 2. It won’t happen because the Halo community absolutely adores the teamshot meta, especially the pros.
No, no we haven’t. You simply want it. Halo needs to return to its roots.
> 2533274794648158;3:
> We’ve needed faster kill times since Halo 2. It won’t happen because the Halo community absolutely adores the teamshot meta, especially the pros.
This same topic came up at the launch of h5 and I don’t think my mind has changed back then to now. Meaning; I’ve always thought that bullet magnetism should have been reduced 10% but not nerfed to high heaven as no one could land a shot on console. Secondly; no weapon should have a ttk less than 1.2seconds (excluding power weapons) long ttk is good for halo.
> 2533274826056477;4:
> > 2533274794648158;3:
> > We’ve needed faster kill times since Halo 2. It won’t happen because the Halo community absolutely adores the teamshot meta, especially the pros.
>
> No, no we haven’t. You simply want it. Halo needs to return to its roots.
Yes, a return to it’s roots would be great. I’d love to know a modern version of the HCE pistol would perform with modern net codes and such!
multiple non power weapons in halo have a perfect ttk of 0.8 seconds . this is relatively fast. but the average ttk has classicaly been high. in halo 5 both numbers are closer together.
and as i said: hitting deserved shots and not being hit by definite misses is way more satisfying than getting constant perfects.
near perfect aim for everyone devalues the experience, because people get used ti whatever standard there is. a higher skill sealing would make the amount of possible progess (people are not happy with static success, progression is what makes them happy) greater.
> 2592250499819446;8:
> I prefer a quicker time to kill, if they increase the ttk I’m out, it’s already frustrating enough imo. If they make it longer I walk away.
its not about increasing the minimum ttk ()perfect kills). its about increasing the average ttk through a higher skillgap by reducing bullet magnetism.
> 2533274945422049;10:
> > 2592250499819446;8:
> > I prefer a quicker time to kill, if they increase the ttk I’m out, it’s already frustrating enough imo. If they make it longer I walk away.
>
> its not about increasing the minimum ttk ()perfect kills). its about increasing the average ttk through a higher skillgap by reducing bullet magnetism.
And that will increase the TTK. If they reduce magnetism it will lead to more missed shots, and more chances of the attacked player being able to turn the tables and making fights even longer. Sorry, but that’s not something I want to see.
> 2592250499819446;11:
> > 2533274945422049;10:
> > > 2592250499819446;8:
> > > I prefer a quicker time to kill, if they increase the ttk I’m out, it’s already frustrating enough imo. If they make it longer I walk away.
> >
> > its not about increasing the minimum ttk ()perfect kills). its about increasing the average ttk through a higher skillgap by reducing bullet magnetism.
>
> And that will increase the TTK. If they reduce magnetism it will lead to more missed shots, and more chances of the attacked player being able to turn the tables and making fights even longer. Sorry, but that’s not something I want to see.
but this is what halos gunplay has been about: the better player remains.
if the guy you landed the first hit on is not as good as you, you will still win the fight. this would be even more likely than in halo 5.
reducing the minimum ttk by a tiny amount would also be possible with reduced bullet magnetism (autoaim would stay nearly unchanged because of the limitations of controllers) too give players with better positioning the advantage they deserve.
this system rewards skill and makes the game less hectic.
> 2533274945422049;12:
> > 2592250499819446;11:
> > > 2533274945422049;10:
> > > > 2592250499819446;8:
> > > > I prefer a quicker time to kill, if they increase the ttk I’m out, it’s already frustrating enough imo. If they make it longer I walk away.
> > >
> > > its not about increasing the minimum ttk ()perfect kills). its about increasing the average ttk through a higher skillgap by reducing bullet magnetism.
> >
> > And that will increase the TTK. If they reduce magnetism it will lead to more missed shots, and more chances of the attacked player being able to turn the tables and making fights even longer. Sorry, but that’s not something I want to see.
>
> 1) but this is what halos gunplay has been about: the better player remains.
>
> 2) this system rewards skill and makes the game less hectic.
We still have that with the current TTK, I don’t want longer TTKs and more prolonged cat and mouse engagements.
The current set up is not any less skillful, and opinions matter here. I prefer more hectic, maybe you don’t ? I’ll never change my view on this, I have always viewed the TTK in Halo games as tedious an elongated, and I have always said it’s one of the things I would like reduced. Making it longer is not something I’ll support or agree to. It’s long enough imo.
> 2592250499819446;13:
> > 2533274945422049;12:
> > > 2592250499819446;11:
> > > > 2533274945422049;10:
> > > > > 2592250499819446;8:
> > > > > I prefer a quicker time to kill, if they increase the ttk I’m out, it’s already frustrating enough imo. If they make it longer I walk away.
> > > >
> > > > its not about increasing the minimum ttk ()perfect kills). its about increasing the average ttk through a higher skillgap by reducing bullet magnetism.
> > >
> > > And that will increase the TTK. If they reduce magnetism it will lead to more missed shots, and more chances of the attacked player being able to turn the tables and making fights even longer. Sorry, but that’s not something I want to see.
> >
> > 1) but this is what halos gunplay has been about: the better player remains.
> >
> > 2) this system rewards skill and makes the game less hectic.
>
> 1) We still have that with the current TTK, I don’t want longer TTKs and more prolonged cat and mouse engagements.
>
> 2) The current set up is not any less skillful, and opinions matter here. I prefer more hectic, maybe you don’t ? I’ll never change my view on this, I have always viewed the TTK in Halo games as tedious an elongated, and I have always said it’s one of the things I would like reduced. Making it longer is not something I’ll support or agree to. It’s long enough imo.
the perfect time to kill remains or is even lower than now. if you can’t hit somebody you need training.
the proposed setup has a overall higher skillgap. this makes it evidently more skill based.
not liking the possibility of high ttk’s if you don’t aim properly is your opinion. halo however was famous for this. it is the same thing that makes counterstrike work since 99’ .
if you are a good shot your top ttks would be shorter. if you aren’t they would possibly be the same or slightly longer (lower bullet magnetism alows for shorter perfect ttk’s. this would keep the average ttk from inreasing to much).
if you mostly rely on bullet magnetism to hit something this could indeed be frustrating, as the game would just get harder.
> 2533274945422049;14:
> > 2592250499819446;13:
> > > 2533274945422049;12:
> > > > 2592250499819446;11:
> > > > > 2533274945422049;10:
> > > > > > 2592250499819446;8:
> > > > > > I prefer a quicker time to kill, if they increase the ttk I’m out, it’s already frustrating enough imo. If they make it longer I walk away.
> > > > >
> > > > > its not about increasing the minimum ttk ()perfect kills). its about increasing the average ttk through a higher skillgap by reducing bullet magnetism.
> > > >
> > > > And that will increase the TTK. If they reduce magnetism it will lead to more missed shots, and more chances of the attacked player being able to turn the tables and making fights even longer. Sorry, but that’s not something I want to see.
> > >
> > > 1) but this is what halos gunplay has been about: the better player remains.
> > >
> > > 2) this system rewards skill and makes the game less hectic.
> >
> > 1) We still have that with the current TTK, I don’t want longer TTKs and more prolonged cat and mouse engagements.
> >
> > 2) The current set up is not any less skillful, and opinions matter here. I prefer more hectic, maybe you don’t ? I’ll never change my view on this, I have always viewed the TTK in Halo games as tedious an elongated, and I have always said it’s one of the things I would like reduced. Making it longer is not something I’ll support or agree to. It’s long enough imo.
>
> 1) the perfect time to kill remains or is even lower than now. if you can’t hit somebody you need training.
> 2) the proposed setup has a overall higher skillgap. this makes it evidently more skill based.
> 3) not liking the possibility of high ttk’s if you don’t aim properly is your opinion. halo however was famous for this. it is the same thing that makes counterstrike work since 99’ .
>
> if you are a good shot your top ttks would be shorter. if you aren’t they would possibly be the same or slightly longer (lower bullet magnetism alows for shorter perfect ttk’s. this would keep the average ttk from inreasing to much).
>
> if you mostly rely on bullet magnetism to hit something this could indeed be frustrating, as the game would just get harder.
I just don’t agree with a longer TTK or even longer engagements. If they mess with the bullet magnetism it will affect it. I’m ok with the current TTK, however, It’s an issue I have always had about Halo. Making it longer is not something I want to see, it’s long enough imo.
I agree, lower both. This is how I think they should’ve nerfed the BR, also decreasing red reticle range, but instead they just ruin the thing to the point no one cares to pick it up over a pistol lol
> 2533275031939856;16:
> I agree, lower both. This is how I think they should’ve nerfed the BR, also decreasing red reticle range, but instead they just ruin the thing to the point no one cares to pick it up over a pistol lol
i think the distanve between perfect and average ttk should increase. lowering both is also possible with that, although i would prefer the relatively high average ttk.
the br balancing is indeed very off. your proposal in zhis regard sound good .
> 2533274826056477;4:
> > 2533274794648158;3:
> > We’ve needed faster kill times since Halo 2. It won’t happen because the Halo community absolutely adores the teamshot meta, especially the pros.
>
> No, no we haven’t. You simply want it. Halo needs to return to its roots.
Those roots differ depending on which Halo you idolize.
> 2533274794648158;18:
> > 2533274826056477;4:
> > > 2533274794648158;3:
> > > We’ve needed faster kill times since Halo 2. It won’t happen because the Halo community absolutely adores the teamshot meta, especially the pros.
> >
> > No, no we haven’t. You simply want it. Halo needs to return to its roots.
>
> Those roots differ depending on which Halo you idolize.
indeed. but most people can agree on common core mechanics, or limits these mechanics should be within.
> 2533274826056477;4:
> > 2533274794648158;3:
> > We’ve needed faster kill times since Halo 2. It won’t happen because the Halo community absolutely adores the teamshot meta, especially the pros.
>
> No, no we haven’t. You simply want it. Halo needs to return to its roots.
Halo’s roots are in fast minimum kill times. It was not until Halo 2 came along and nerfed the sandbox to get us where we are now. If you’re into that, then so be it, but that’s not where the roots are. It’s not what Halo started with.