The sword and shotgun are still very different though, the sword has lunge and can parry other swords, the shotgun is ammo-fed and has actual range instead of requiring a melee for the kill. I’d also argue the bulldog has more in common with the heatwave while a one tap shotgun would be able to distinguish itself from its forerunner counterpart a bit more.
Also that logic doesn’t exactly fly with the sword and hammer, because they managed to remove the one unique part of the hammer that the sword didn’t have: knockback to launch enemy players.
Their only playstyle differences have ever had to do with their relationship with eachother, and not the rest of the sandbox though. All 3 weapons have always been “get close, press RT, profit” with nothing to truly distinguish them apart from aesthetics. The most unique one was the hammer, since it could physics vehicles and deflect explosives. But aside from that which one was the best in the game was always based on which one had a longer effective one hit kill range (sword/hammer lunge vs shotgun’s one-tap range). In 2 and 3 it was the Sword, in Reach and 4 it was the Shotgun. I played very little 5 so I don’t know which it was in that game per say, but you get the point.
The Bulldog doesn’t compete whatsoever with the Sword and Hammer for playstyle and sandbox role. It’s closest competitior is the heatwave instead as you said. Better to have just two weapons stepping on each-other’s toes in a niche than to have 3.
I think you’re overanalyzing the overlap. The shotgun wouldn’t step on the toes of the melee weapons if it wasn’t a one shot kill at range but was a one shot up close. At that point it’s a matter of timing the shot while the sword is mid-lunge or playing the safer but longer approach of pumping them two or three times at range.
You also have to consider how it impacts the game as a whole. The Bulldog ruins Infection because it’s no longer a fair match vs. the sword/hammer, both in damage output and the lack of a reload delay per shot.
You know the CE shotgun is in one game because the devs looked at it and said, “Okay. That’s… Overpowered. Let’s not do that again.”
I’m so glad you just get it. Like you, GET IT.
lmao is it good against swords or NOT it is AMAZING how people will say in the SAME post, “It isn’t good at killing swords” and “It’s too good at killing swords.”
Yeah except then they nerfed the shotgun too much for 2, 3 and Reach. There’s a sweet spot in terms of balance without completely reinventing the wheel.
You’re confusing my comments about the pump action shotty with the Bulldog. I’m saying the Bulldog would be too good vs. swords for infection. The pump action shotty is more balanced because pumping after each fired round + a slow reload gives sword users ample time to retaliate.
I think that you make some really good points, and you’ve changed my opinion somewhat on the Bulldog. However, seems like everybody here is a bit tense, touchy today, dare I say rude even.
That being said, The part where you said the Bulldog should be a rack weapon, and the Shotgun can spawn elsewhere is a pretty smart idea, I think. The Bulldog isn’t a power weapon, and I myself was pretty frustrated that it didn’t act like one.
While you can push an assailant back with the Repulsor, the Shotgun is a necessary part of the game that is sorely missing. I disagree with one of your earlier comments that the Bulldog would be suitable for infection. There is something special about the undead running after you, and you’re frantically reloading one shell at a time because you have to shoot one, then reload, then shoot one.
The bulldog can counter the energy sword and gravity hammer if you can actually use it and if they aren’t 2 feet away from you. It doesn’t have the same range limits as the old shotgun and can actually do decent damage at assault rifle range.
2’s Shotgun was mostly fine, 3’s and Reach’s were crap IMO. 4’s and 5’s were way better but boring.
CE’s was simply too powerful.
It is unfortunate that it goes this way, but I’m glad I could change your opinion somewhat.
Thank you. Yeah, it’s an advantageous gun to have but it just flat out is not a straight up power weapon. I saw a post earlier saying that shot-bonk removes the point of the shotgun but, that’s how you had to kill with the old one usually anyway.
Sure, but that’s feel over function. In that case, the Heatwave is perfectly suitable - and in the context of Halo, even more thematic.
Yes there does need to be a third. Right now both of the weapons in that category are covenant weapons, where is the human equivalent? Matter of fact, down with this entire system in Infinite of "God forbid two weapons function similarly between human and covenant".
AR? There’s no Plasma Rifle anymore.
BR? There’s no Carbine anymore.
Sword/Hammer? There’s no shotty anymore.
Rockets? There’s no Fuel Rod anymore.
Sniper? There’s no Beam Rifle anymore (but there is a shock rifle that’s really not fun to use and the entire shock family is too good against vehicles).
There are a lot of new “additions” in this game, but just as many or more retractions, and what we have left has each weapon filling a very pinpoint specific role rather than multiple flavors of weapon in the same role. The weapons I listed fill roughly the same role and are usually on equal or almost equal ground but feel/function very differently.
That’s not necessarily the case that something like that would remove the necessity of the Shotgun. If anything, it would prove the case that the Shotgun should come back, specifically as a power weapon, and come back even stronger.
Going to disagree here. It’s different gameplay wise. Having to basically juggle only one shell at a time is a lot more difficult than just popping another drum in and then having several shots ready to go, in the case where zombies will die from one blast regardless of the gun. It’s also more balanced.
The frantic, nerve-wracking classic infection feel is a byproduct of how the shotgun has operated, and thus requires the same kind of gun. You understand what I mean?
I don’t have any particular set of words to say here, but I’m just going to have to go with a “No.” here. It’s not more thematic to have a heatwave in infection. In my humble opinion, of course!
1.25s optimal TTK for AR.
0.65 optimal TTK for Bulldog.
You got reason.
That was LITERALLY the whole point. They wanted a tight sandbox of core weapons to build upon. Not filling out quotas of, “X version’s of Y” because who cares, that’s silly.
Thaaaaaaaaaat’s what the Sword and Hammer are for. You’ll get it back in Season 2 or 3 though that’s basically a guarantee.
The heatwave realoads one cell at a time. You can interrupt each individual cell’s power up with pulling the trigger. I do understand the difference between loading a drum and feeding the tube. But the Headwave can reload one cell and then fire it off. So, it still works the same way.
I mean not to be rude but it’s a gun literally designed to kill Flood. That sounds like it fits the bill super nicely to me. (also hoho wow yeah you know what I just realized, the WAVE of pellets you can fire, that overpenetrate? PERFECT for blasting mobs of infection forms.)
considering stuff like the Pulse Carbine is like way better in the campaign (at least it seems so)…yea the Heatwave is GREAT for crowd controlling weaker enemies, like those tiny flood units
Pulse Carbine is definitely balanced and geared for campaign. Looks very fun to evade when fired at you by Elites and yeah like, that thing is going to shred apart Brutes like NOBODY’S business.
I do find it strange though that in a game about Brutes, we have no Brute Shots or Spikers, lmao.
1.25? It’s 1.15 for body shots only and 1.00 for headshots via the damage multiplier. This is also a weapon with FAAAAAR more consistency and range.
The bulldog might technically have a faster kill time, but it is far to inconsistent to rely on and it’s range is downright pathetic. If you miss even a fraction of the pellets you are basically screwed.
The bulldog is not worth trading out for basically most of the other weapons. The bulldog simply doesn’t do enough as a “power weapon” if you can even call it that.
Is the Bulldog really a POWER POWER weapon though? It’s a quick respawning wall weapon rather than a slow respawning floor weapon pad weapon. It’s in the same slot with other quirky stuff like the Pulse Carbine, Heatwave, and Ravager rather than the slower tier like the Sword and SPNKr.
Not to agree or disagree with any comments on whether it should be buffed, but it is seemingly not intended to be in the same tier as the Sword and SPNKr.
That’s because you’re right, it isn’t a power weapon, it’s a pickup weapon. Anything you can pick up is advantageous to have, but people treating it like one because it’s a shotgun and you don’t spawn with it need to seriously re-assess, because now, power weapons have a gold outline when dropped.
Which so far amounts to the Energy Sword, Gravity Hammer, S7 Sniper, Skewer, Rocket Launcher and Cindershot.
Not even the Hydra or Shock Rifle are in the same category, despite being powerful weapons.
So yes, if the classic Shotgun were to return, you would see it spawn in a called out pad as a gold lined power weapon.
Even in the comments of his video (I watched it a while back) is that weapon drills damage values for many weapons including the AR do less damage in said drills. In multi-player as per multiple other YouTubers showed the ttk is 1.15 for body and 1.00 for head.