Build Order Troubles

Hello Captains, Sergents and Generals,

I’m a noob in RTS games and since I would just get destroyed I skip the pvp and rather just play against the AI. I don’t have troubles against the normal AI and though I win most of the time against the heroic AI, I have troubles early game. I’m building up my base and suddenly it comes over with a whole bunch of warthogs, hellbringers or Choppers or Marauders.
Usually I buy three supply pads, a generator, armory and an infantry thing (Sorry, don’t know the name right now, I’m playing in a different language) and I upgrade the generator and supply pads immediately. After the base upgrade I build a garage and an airpad, so that I can build everything possible. However, as I said, before I have a simple army up, the AI rushes me suddenly. Sometimes it even comes with a about ten hellbringers so early in the game that I have no turrets and only 5 Marines out there who are taking a power node by that time. They don’t stand a chance against the Hellbringers and when I start building Marines they come out seperately and get destroyed. And even when I shut down the base to let them be build and bring them out all at once, by the time I would have a decent counter, my base is destroyed…

Yesterday I was looking for improved build orders. I’ve seen graphs that show you shouldn’t build two generators or 4 supply pads since those give you almost no bonus. Only if you can add another one it is okay to build them. So with a starting base and a minibase nearby you have 6 slots to build. I built a generator and five supply pads without upgrading them this time to spam Marines or Jackrabbits, upgrading the Jackrabbits and maybe the Marines.
I could surprise the normal AI with this strategy and either win instantly or upgrading my base in the meantime and then win with the second army of vehicles and aircrafts.

However, against the Heroic AI it is still doesn’t work properly. Although I’m building my units faster now the AI is still even faster and comes over with their troops before I finished my basic army. And it even comes with Marauders and other “more advanced” troops. But since all my base spots are used by the generator and the five supply pads and couldn’t build the infantry thing or garage or airpad to build units to counter them. And even if I would’ve built that, by the time the counter units are ready the base is destroyed.
Spreading out early to a second main base also soesn’t work well since he will rush me when it is being built so the base doesn’t have turrets. Building the second base even earlier takes away supply again so that I can’t build units.
It’s a dilemma. :frowning:

Do you have any tips?

Generally you want to have 2 generators and 3 supply pads on your main base so you have enough power to hit Tech 2 relatively early. Or you could go 4 supply pads and 1 generator to help with the unit spam, but thats only if you’re going to rush or go for heavy map control. Even then you’ll want to eventually build another generator either on your mini base or by smashing one of your supply pads. Only build a Barracks/Raid Camp if you need to counter a rush or rush yourself. Always upgrade your generator first, generating power and winning skirmishes are extremely important early game. Don’t expand unless you know its safe. You should achieve Tech 2 no later than 5-7 minutes, and Tech 3 no later than 9-12 minutes. If you aren’t hitting those milestones, you got some work to do :wink: Keep practicing, you’ll definitely get better

It takes 30 seconds to build the Barracks, right? Then another 30 seconds to get one, maybe two units out. That’s 60 seconds. By that time the enemy units can travel across the whole map, lol. Even if I spot the enemy troops right at their base this isn’t enough time to build everything. If I have a really good match, I spot them in the middle of the map on the way to my base. Most of the time I spot them when they’re there. xD

Another thing. How do you guys group units? Creating groups on the Xbox is limited to four groups. Sometimes, when you have 6 - 9 different unit types it’s hard to control all of them.
Do you

  1. put only the important ones on a group shortcut?
  2. put infantry, vehicles and air units on a group shortcut? (e.g. Marines + Snipers + Hero in one group, Wolverines + Scorpions + Warthogs in another group)
  3. or put the units a against a certain type on a group shortcut? (e.g. Marines + Wolverines, Cyclops + Hornets)

I can’t decide what’s best. The advantage in 2) is, you can easily get away your unit types if the enemy comes up with a counter to one unit type. The disadvantage is, you would also throw in the Snipers that can’t fight against vehicles, when you want to get your Cyclops and Marines to fight against Warthogs.
3) is the other way around.

> 2533274809217817;3:
> It takes 30 seconds to build the Barracks, right? Then another 30 seconds to get one, maybe two units out. That’s 60 seconds. By that time the enemy units can travel across the whole map, lol. Even if I spot the enemy troops right at their base this isn’t enough time to build everything. If I have a really good match, I spot them in the middle of the map on the way to my base. Most of the time I spot them when they’re there. xD
>
> Another thing. How do you guys group units? Creating groups on the Xbox is limited to four groups. Sometimes, when you have 6 - 9 different unit types it’s hard to control all of them.
> Do you
> 1) put only the important ones on a group shortcut?
> 2) put infantry, vehicles and air units on a group shortcut? (e.g. Marines + Snipers + Hero in one group, Wolverines + Scorpions + Warthogs in another group)
> 3) or put the units a against a certain type on a group shortcut? (e.g. Marines + Wolverines, Cyclops + Hornets)
>
> I can’t decide what’s best. The advantage in 2) is, you can easily get away your unit types if the enemy comes up with a counter to one unit type. The disadvantage is, you would also throw in the Snipers that can’t fight against vehicles, when you want to get your Cyclops and Marines to fight against Warthogs.
> 3) is the other way around.

Scouting is your best friend. In the early stages of the game, there’s only a few units that can be thrown at you (a rush); Hellbringers/Jump Brutes, Marines/Grunts, Jackrabbits/Choppers/Ghosts, or some combination of these units. Each of them has an early game counter; Suicide Grunts/Snipers/Scout units wreck infantry, while Grenade Throw Marines/Shrapnel Mines Grunts/Scout Units (to an extent) counter scout units. No matter what’s coming, you need to throw up some turrets to support your army. For example, if you’re playing Cutter and you see a mass of Marines mid-map headed your way, start pumping out Jackrabbits and drop Lotus Mines in front of your base. You should have at least one mini base, maybe two, so you can double or triple pump Marines/Jackrabbits if you need to. SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT. Always make sure the first unit you build is a scout unit. Send it over to the enemy base and see whats headed your way, if anything. Check mini bases too. Rushes are very potent if not scouted, and a lot of people take advantage of a general lack of scouting by rushing your base. Learn to scout, learn to counter rushes, and you’ll be well on your way to improving your overall gameplay. As for control groups, I can’t say that I use them very much lol. A lot of units will auto attack what they’re best suited to attacking; Reavers will attack air, Cyclops will attack vehicles, etc. Keep your army together but be aware of your surroundings. Be ready to split your army at a moments notice to dodge leader powers or trap an enemy army. Hope this helps!