Okay, I love the new update but the one thing that has yet to be addressed is the Wolverines. They are too weak to damage and I should not have to be forced to play as a banished. Sketch I have to call you and 343 out on this. Wolverines have not got a real buff that has focused on them. It is also beyond unfair in the triangle balance that the one unit to counter the air units for humans is too easily pick off and does not do the damage that Reavers do to air. Seven reavers can handle a full cap of air with little trouble due to the damage buff and fire rate buff, yet why is it a whole army of Wolverines can not do even a fraction of that of reavers. They need something and with out it the humans have no chance at countering any air at all with any units but air. Hornets are much more powerful now and can dominate anything on the field except reavers and banshee’s. marines just don’t have that speed to keep up with the units as they move around bases doing hit and runs on supplies or wiping out a base in total. which sets back so many games. Please give them a buff that is equal to the reavers so they can do the job they are meant to do which is handle air.
Wolverines are trash this meta
I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
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> I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
>
> Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
But, marines should not be so much better at killing air. Marines are supposed to be a soft counter to air, while wolverines only purpose is to counter air… they literally can’t do anything else meaningful in a game. Wolverines, fully upgraded, should wreck air.
Wolverines are fine. They do rather well against air, especially if some Marines, and maybe some Nighingales, are thrown in there.
The only time Wolves struggle is when they are MASSIVELY outnumbered, your opponent has more upgrades, or a combination of the two.
If youre struggling against mass air (that’s what it sounds like), I suggest scouting more frequently to see what your opponent is doing, so you can correctly prepare. If your opponent catches you off guard with mass air, there’s not much you can do. In those scenarios, Wolves will feel useless.
TLDR; Wolves are fine. Try to scout frequently, so you can prepare correctly.
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> > I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
> >
> > Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
>
> But, marines should not be so much better at killing air. Marines are supposed to be a soft counter to air, while wolverines only purpose is to counter air… they literally can’t do anything else meaningful in a game. Wolverines, fully upgraded, should wreck air.
Marines are finally doing their job as being a soft counter, prior to this season their effects were negligible.
As for Wolverines they do wreck air as long as you are using their advantage, SPEED.
I made the test, if you make banshees vs wolves fight (same pop), wolves will be wrecked.
Marines fully upgraded vs banshees fully upgraded: Winner: Marines. It doesn’t make much sense to me, but ok.
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> > > I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
> > >
> > > Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
> >
> > But, marines should not be so much better at killing air. Marines are supposed to be a soft counter to air, while wolverines only purpose is to counter air… they literally can’t do anything else meaningful in a game. Wolverines, fully upgraded, should wreck air.
>
> Marines are finally doing their job as being a soft counter, prior to this season their effects were negligible.
>
> As for Wolverines they do wreck air as long as you are using their advantage, SPEED.
Usually I agree with you bro, but I don’t think wolverines are fine… I felt like your original post even hinted at that in that marines are more effective than the designated hard counter. Fully upgraded wolves should not need to be microd much to take down fully upgraded hornets when the hornets just simply have to focus fire one at a time to whittle down the wolves and overcome them. I feel like they are much better against banshees than against hornets. I mean, I still cant get over the fact that wolves have one purpose… anti air… they cant do anything else. Marines are better at anti air than wolves.
I am not talking a handful of wolves either (I get that you have to have a significant number to take down massed air)… I mean we had ~20 wolves and my teammate had his own hornets mixed with some marines while attacking a turreted base, and the defender had a cap of air (we kept his teammate at bay by walling off one side so he couldn’t get to us with my snipers to counter his Cyclops). I even dropped in ODST and ODST assault squad when I started losing troops… we still didn’t take down but half his air… I guess I could scout more… even though we already knew what he had hence the ~20 wolves we showed up with… but I don’t know. Hard to use the speed advantage when you are on the offensive and the air is focusing down everything you have while playing defense…
I miss the days in HW1 when massed air flew over massed anti air and lost half their units in about 10 seconds even if doing a quick flyover… maybe I just need to play more DE
What game are you playing? I’m pretty sure that sucks to play Banished rigth now…
nope
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> > > > I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
> > > >
> > > > Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
>
> I feel like they are much better against banshees than against hornets.
I feel like this is the real issue. Hornets are still too strong in my opinion. If this is the case with you (it sure has been with me) then we need to nerf the Hornet rather than indirectly nerf every other air unit.
Air should beat vehicles in 1v1 battle. Even with a vehicle being anti Air, you shouldn’t be able to pump vehicles and beat somoens air push unless you have more units or the air is targeting someone or something else. From what I’ve seen in the game both AA units do well at killing air units, reavers do a bit better but it is significantly more risky going straight air now. I’de rather see a buff to the grunts AA abilities and make infantry the primary counter to air.
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> > > > > I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
> >
> > I feel like they are much better against banshees than against hornets.
>
> I feel like this is the real issue. Hornets are still too strong in my opinion. If this is the case with you (it sure has been with me) then we need to nerf the Hornet rather than indirectly nerf every other air unit.
The fact that marines are a better counter to air than wolverines is a bigger issue. Hornets are going to be the meta this season I feel like… at least mid-late game… they probably need tweaking, but wolves need to dominate air (any air, not specifically banshees or hornets)… has been a problem most of this game. Air doesn’t need to micro to beat anti air, while by your own admission, micro is typically necessary to beat the air with similar numbers of each. This is a major advantage to the air player.
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> I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
>
> Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
Classic Breezy defending his fellow 343/CA developers.
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> > > > > > I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
> > >
> > > I feel like they are much better against banshees than against hornets.
> >
> > I feel like this is the real issue. Hornets are still too strong in my opinion. If this is the case with you (it sure has been with me) then we need to nerf the Hornet rather than indirectly nerf every other air unit.
>
> The fact that marines are a better counter to air than wolverines is a bigger issue. Hornets are going to be the meta this season I feel like… at least mid-late game… they probably need tweaking, but wolves need to dominate air (any air, not specifically banshees or hornets)… has been a problem most of this game. Air doesn’t need to micro to beat anti air, while by your own admission, micro is typically necessary to beat the air with similar numbers of each. This is a major advantage to the air player.
Air > Vehicle > Infantry > Air. I think the game will be better off if this hold true for all cases when no micro is used.
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> Air should beat vehicles in 1v1 battle. Even with a vehicle being anti Air, you shouldn’t be able to pump vehicles and beat somoens air push unless you have more units or the air is targeting someone or something else. From what I’ve seen in the game both AA units do well at killing air units, reavers do a bit better but it is significantly more risky going straight air now. I’de rather see a buff to the grunts AA abilities and make infantry the primary counter to air.
Air should not beat their hard counter… just like armor should not beat their hard counter. I get the whole triangle, but wolverines only purpose is to counter air, and it isn’t as effective at that as infantry (namely marines) are. Wolverines literally cant do anything else but counter air, where air can attack buildings, other air, and vehicles. Should warthogs beat cyclopses? Armor should beat infantry by this logic right? And I say warthogs because they are T2 just like Cyclops are, while banshees/hornets are T2 just like wolverines.
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> > > > > > > I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
> > > >
> > > > I feel like they are much better against banshees than against hornets.
> > >
> > > I feel like this is the real issue. Hornets are still too strong in my opinion. If this is the case with you (it sure has been with me) then we need to nerf the Hornet rather than indirectly nerf every other air unit.
> >
> > The fact that marines are a better counter to air than wolverines is a bigger issue. Hornets are going to be the meta this season I feel like… at least mid-late game… they probably need tweaking, but wolves need to dominate air (any air, not specifically banshees or hornets)… has been a problem most of this game. Air doesn’t need to micro to beat anti air, while by your own admission, micro is typically necessary to beat the air with similar numbers of each. This is a major advantage to the air player.
>
> Air > Vehicle > Infantry > Air. I think the game will be better off if this hold true for all cases when no micro is used.
Then what is the point of wolverines? By this logic there is literally no need for wolverines, nor Cyclops. Hard counters should still have a purpose and excel at the sole purpose they have.
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> > Air should beat vehicles in 1v1 battle. Even with a vehicle being anti Air, you shouldn’t be able to pump vehicles and beat somoens air push unless you have more units or the air is targeting someone or something else. From what I’ve seen in the game both AA units do well at killing air units, reavers do a bit better but it is significantly more risky going straight air now. I’de rather see a buff to the grunts AA abilities and make infantry the primary counter to air.
>
> Air should not beat their hard counter… just like armor should not beat their hard counter. I get the whole triangle, but wolverines only purpose is to counter air, and it isn’t as effective at that as infantry (namely marines) are. Wolverines literally cant do anything else but counter air, where air can attack buildings, other air, and vehicles. Should warthogs beat cyclopses? Armor should beat infantry by this logic right? And I say warthogs because they are T2 just like Cyclops are, while banshees/hornets are T2 just like wolverines.
Wathogs are a bit different because they really aren’t supposed to be a late game unit. But yes I think that full pop wraiths should beat full pop cyclopses, scorpions should beat hunters, banshees should beat wolves, and hornets should be reavers. If the triangle holds, it requires more strategy when making army comp. My army of half grizzly half wolf army should lose to full air because air> vehicle. There are other issues with balancing like full pop banshees melting bases like no ones business but I maintain that the most important aspect of the game should be preserving the triangle.
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> > > > > > > > I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
> > > > >
> > > > > I feel like they are much better against banshees than against hornets.
> > > >
> > > > I feel like this is the real issue. Hornets are still too strong in my opinion. If this is the case with you (it sure has been with me) then we need to nerf the Hornet rather than indirectly nerf every other air unit.
> > >
> > > The fact that marines are a better counter to air than wolverines is a bigger issue. Hornets are going to be the meta this season I feel like… at least mid-late game… they probably need tweaking, but wolves need to dominate air (any air, not specifically banshees or hornets)… has been a problem most of this game. Air doesn’t need to micro to beat anti air, while by your own admission, micro is typically necessary to beat the air with similar numbers of each. This is a major advantage to the air player.
> >
> > Air > Vehicle > Infantry > Air. I think the game will be better off if this hold true for all cases when no micro is used.
>
> Then what is the point of wolverines? By this logic there is literally no need for wolverines, nor Cyclops. Hard counters should still have a purpose and excel at the sole purpose they have.
They are support units, they need to hide behind the major engagement, or behind a base or used in a flanking maneuver but I don’t think in an open field a wolverine should beat a banshee.
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> > > > > > > > > I love how people “call out” ske7ch. He’s not even part of the development team, why would he have any responsibility in how the game is balanced?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyways, Wolverines do not need a buff. Reavers do more damage and have more health because they’re slower, you need to micro the Wolverines to get the most out of them. Not to mention Marines are so much better at killing air right now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I feel like they are much better against banshees than against hornets.
> > > > >
> > > > > I feel like this is the real issue. Hornets are still too strong in my opinion. If this is the case with you (it sure has been with me) then we need to nerf the Hornet rather than indirectly nerf every other air unit.
> > > >
> > > > The fact that marines are a better counter to air than wolverines is a bigger issue. Hornets are going to be the meta this season I feel like… at least mid-late game… they probably need tweaking, but wolves need to dominate air (any air, not specifically banshees or hornets)… has been a problem most of this game. Air doesn’t need to micro to beat anti air, while by your own admission, micro is typically necessary to beat the air with similar numbers of each. This is a major advantage to the air player.
> > >
> > > Air > Vehicle > Infantry > Air. I think the game will be better off if this hold true for all cases when no micro is used.
> >
> > Then what is the point of wolverines? By this logic there is literally no need for wolverines, nor Cyclops. Hard counters should still have a purpose and excel at the sole purpose they have.
>
> They are support units, they need to hide behind the major engagement, or behind a base or used in a flanking maneuver but I don’t think in an open field a wolverine should beat a banshee.
However, from all the playing that I’ve done, wolves seem very effective at cutting down air units.