Buff the spartans

The more I think about the balance between UNSC and Banished, the more I think that it may come down to heroes atm.

For example, Johnson, Isabel, Kinsano, and Anders don’t appear to be able to keep up with the other leaders, because they can’t always survive in the early game. But, each can be viable if they make it to mid-late game. Granted there are tweaks needed for each still.

Jerome and Forge do fine, mostly because their heroes can get them through to mid-game. Jerome also has strong buffs, and Forge has eco; but, without their heroes, I don’t know how well they’d really do. Cutter was strong because of his speed and ODST craziness.

Now that hellbringers and hornets are buffed, UNSC are in a good place. But, the underperforming UNSC leaders are still underperforming.

If they buffed the heroes for Cutter, Johnson, Kinsano, Isabel, and Anders, I think those leaders would be much more viable. Of course they would each need some work still individually, and maybe the “not viable at top play” comments will arise, but, they’ll be better for casual/onyx/early champion play.

This is just what I’m thinking after trying out some of these underachievers. When it comes down to it, most early games are dominated by heroes or scouts. And those underachieving UNSC just don’t have heroes that can compete. I know they’ve buffed the spartans little by little, but it’s obvious that they don’t really compete against Chosen, Warlord, or Captain.

What do y’all think? Am I way off the mark here?

I very much agree and for what it’s worth the Elite honor guard also imo isn’t worth getting as a leader

> 2533274840109488;2:
> I very much agree and for what it’s worth the Elite honor guard also imo isn’t worth getting as a leader

Agreed.
Shipmaster earns his bread through teleports and displacements. The honor guard is just a good scout.

But, if/when they tone down tele and displ, his hero might need some love to keep him being a good leader.

> 2533274840109488;2:
> I very much agree and for what it’s worth the Elite honor guard also imo isn’t worth getting as a leader

honor just requires more strategy, I use to think he was up but no anymore

> 2533274796391115;3:
> > 2533274840109488;2:
> > I very much agree and for what it’s worth the Elite honor guard also imo isn’t worth getting as a leader
>
> Agreed.
> Shipmaster earns his bread through teleports and displacements. The honor guard is just a good scout.
>
> But, if/when they tone down tele and displ, his hero might need some love to keep him being a good leader.

The Spartans could probably start off with their respective unique weapons to balance them out with the other heroes. Every melee hero has a way to hit moving targets except for elite honor guard , warlord - pull, arby - rage speed, you can easily kite elite go out guard ruins his effectiveness

The Spartans are pretty useless on T1. However, banished cannot beat unsc currently because they literally can’t kill hornets.

> 2533274811417927;6:
> The Spartans are pretty useless on T1. However, banished cannot beat unsc currently because they literally can’t kill hornets.

I noticed that (about Hornets) over the weekend.
I guess reavers need a slight buff or Hornets need a slight nerf.

> 2533274796391115;7:
> > 2533274811417927;6:
> > The Spartans are pretty useless on T1. However, banished cannot beat unsc currently because they literally can’t kill hornets.
>
> I noticed that (about Hornets) over the weekend.
> I guess reavers need a slight buff or Hornets need a slight nerf.

It’s just that reavers suck

> 2533274811417927;6:
> The Spartans are pretty useless on T1. However, banished cannot beat unsc currently because they literally can’t kill hornets.

How do you figure? I am sure you’ll throw some random numbers at me, such as it takes X amount of Reavers to kill Y amount of Hornets in Z amount of time, but that doesn’t mean Banished “literally can’t kill hornets”. I have not had difficulty with Hornets once since their buff. Granted, I have been playing mainly playing casual because I refuse to play ranked with how Ridiculous Forge and Serina are currently.

Reaver/Banshee seems to deal with Hornets just fine… even upgraded Grunts can hold their own, especially if backed by some Reavers. I truly don’t understand how you believe “banished cannot beat unsc” because of Hornets alone. Please to elaborate.

EDIT: English is hard.

Actually I think the Spartans are fine. they are cheap and there slam adds a ton of utility to your army. The slam ability has an incredibly long stun effect. Let’s make a little scenario. Your playing as Anders and you have opened the game with frag marines and a spartan with the hijack upgrade. Thanks to R&D level 2 you are also able to get infantry level 1 right out of the gate. Any enemy opening (besides maybe forehog) will get stunned and locked down while you hammer away with frag grenades. At tech 2 if your opponent sticks with infantry you can upgrade your hellbringers and slam the enemy infantry and then deal massive damage with the hellbringers ugrade. The point that I’m trying to make is that the Spartans may not do a whole lot of damage but that stun ability gives them a ton of utility. There not going to soak up damage like a hunter captain or do anything fancy like a Jerome mantis, but that long stun duration will win you engagements early on hands down.

Spartans focus more on utility

> 2533274796391115;7:
> > 2533274811417927;6:
> > The Spartans are pretty useless on T1. However, banished cannot beat unsc currently because they literally can’t kill hornets.
>
> I noticed that (about Hornets) over the weekend.
> I guess reavers need a slight buff or Hornets need a slight nerf.

Reavers don’t need a buff; just nerf the Hornet’s health by 2.5% to 5% at most. And if we’re going to buff Spartans, I think a slight (emphasis on slight) reduction in cost or upgrade time will be more than enough. Also, where the hell is the Forgehog Anvil hotfix nerf. I was kind of a Forge enthusiast before the buffs, so I wouldn’t want to look like a filthy cheeser just because of this buff…

> 2533274843762975;10:
> Actually I think the Spartans are fine. they are cheap and there slam adds a ton of utility to your army. The slam ability has an incredibly long stun effect. Let’s make a little scenario. Your playing as Anders and you have opened the game with frag marines and a spartan with the hijack upgrade. Thanks to R&D level 2 you are also able to get infantry level 1 right out of the gate. Any enemy opening (besides maybe forehog) will get stunned and locked down while you hammer away with frag grenades. At tech 2 if your opponent sticks with infantry you can upgrade your hellbringers and slam the enemy infantry and then deal massive damage with the hellbringers ugrade. The point that I’m trying to make is that the Spartans may not do a whole lot of damage but that stun ability gives them a ton of utility. There not going to soak up damage like a hunter captain or do anything fancy like a Jerome mantis, but that long stun duration will win you engagements early on hands down.

I agree.
But here’s the common problem. Spartan dps and health are super weak. The slam is great, but it’s not always worth it, because you’re likely to lose your spartan right after doing it. One slam will weaken an infantry ball, but Chosen will do the same with 2 shots, and from a distance. The spartan slam puts you right into danger, with a low-health, expensive T1 unit. It’s the same issue with Arby, except he gets a speed boost that can pull him back if you need.
Warlord would have the same problem, but he can pick which units to make come to him, which keeps him out of trouble. And his health is pretty high.

Again, this is just my assessment. i haven’t found a way to make spartans (or Johnson or Kcyclops) useful in T1, and I think Isabel, Johnson, Kinsano Anders, and Cutter suffer from it.
Jerome (of leader Jerome) wouldn’t be such a good hero if he had slam instead of a mech, and no aura buff.

Look, what they need to do is swap the first 2 upgrades. Give douglas the rocket and crap T1. What are u gonna do jack a jr? No thats stupid. You really wanna help Isabel? Give alice the chaingun early. Give anders and isabel a fighting chance early game without it they will lose to every banished leader early game and most of the unsc

> 2533274811417927;6:
> The Spartans are pretty useless on T1. However, banished cannot beat unsc currently because they literally can’t kill hornets.

I’ve actually found that Grunts do the job pretty darn well.

It’s just the issue of grunts being god awful against everything else.

> 2533274922326904;14:
> Look, what they need to do is swap the first 2 upgrades. Give douglas the rocket and crap T1. What are u gonna do jack a jr? No thats stupid. You really wanna help Isabel? Give alice the chaingun early. Give anders and isabel a fighting chance early game without it they will lose to every banished leader early game and most of the unsc

This is actually a very good point and I agree. Give some more damage to them early game so they can actually do some damage early game.

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> > 2533274796391115;7:
> > > 2533274811417927;6:
> > > The Spartans are pretty useless on T1. However, banished cannot beat unsc currently because they literally can’t kill hornets.
> >
> > I noticed that (about Hornets) over the weekend.
> > I guess reavers need a slight buff or Hornets need a slight nerf.
>
> Reavers don’t need a buff; just nerf the Hornet’s health by 2.5% to 5% at most.

I’m done, pass the J.

> 2533274840109488;2:
> I very much agree and for what it’s worth the Elite honor guard also imo isn’t worth getting as a leader

Believe me when I say that the honor guard does NOT need any buffs. If someone knows how to use him he’s very irritating to play against and has unparalleled harassment potential (at least, unparalleled once forge gets nerfed). I’d say he just need an improved AI to not run in circles when ordered to attack structures and he’d be one of the best heroes in the game.

I fully agree with this as a new Anders Main! The early game is scary but if u make it mid to late game Anders is viable! Boosting base spartans i think is only fair, not to make them a new chosen, but viable at least early game!

Some people have suggested swapping hijack and the weapon upgrade. I think that’s reasonable and makes sense too.

Also on the Hornets issue, I haven’t faced them yet as Banished because I’m exploiting Forge. But I warned everyone about the dangers of buffing Hornets instead of making T2 vehicles viable in the game. But anyways… Should a slight nerf be enough or which part of the buffs actually made the hornets allegedly too strong?