The needle rifle takes way too long to kill in elite slayer. It basically means if you want a headshot you have to walk around with the plasma pistol charged up the whole time. No wonder the noobs opt for plasma grenades and needlers. At least they kill in less than 3 seconds. Leave everything else the same but just buff the needle rifle. It would make elite slayer a much faster paced gametype.
For Vanilla, I’d be all for it, but because of the fact the Needle Rifle doesn’t bloom far enough when held automatic or tapping fast to cause it to leave the original reticule, it isn’t needed on TU settings.
Hell no!
See, that’s why i think Bungie should have just kept the Carbine. Have the same kill times as the human utility but viable in competitive environment.
NR isn’t viable for competition, pretty fun to use outside of it but it loses to the DMR because it takes about 7 shot kill to drop shields (10 shot kill with explosion) versus the DMRs five shot kill. Of course, getting a kill against a skilled DMR with NR is much more satisfying and embarrassing (without explosion)
I think my numbers may be off with the NR but in the end, i have a rough idea of the two guns being compared.
Totally agree OP. I’ve shot people and had the time to think “Are you kidding me?!?!?! IS HE REALLY NOT DEAD”
Elite Slayer is Garbage. It’s all about stickies/plasma pistol FTW.
Stronger shields tradeoff to a HUGE head. You wouldn’t be saying this if everyone was spartans with elite weapons I’m sure.
Feel free to even fire full auto against Elite targets. (Assuming this is Vanilla, why wouldn’t you be firing full auto in TU?)
Did I mention the needle rifle has full auto fire? Most of the shots are bound to hit.
It’s what separates the Needle Rifle from being a DMR clone. Speed and accuracy for power. So why make it stronger against huge targets?
Because the Needle rifle with bleedthrough settings in Elite slayer certainly wasn’t OP at all before either…
Being serious now. Needle rifle takes longer to kill, but all of the other weapons are also close ranged, so it’s quite easy to wear enemies down and always get shots off.
Besides the focus rifle of course.
> See, that’s why i think Bungie should have just kept the Carbine. Have the same kill times as the human utility but viable in competitive environment.
>
> NR isn’t viable for competition, pretty fun to use outside of it but it loses to the DMR because it takes about 7 shot kill to drop shields (10 shot kill with explosion) versus the DMRs five shot kill. Of course, getting a kill against a skilled DMR with NR is much more satisfying and embarrassing (without explosion)
>
> I think my numbers may be off with the NR but in the end, i have a rough idea of the two guns being compared.
It doesn’t matter that the shot ratio is different, it’s the RoF of those shots.
A 6-shot NR varies its kill time to the DMR by hundredths of seconds and allows for sloppier shooting.
I know it’s full auto. It’s still too slow. I hate Elite Slayer as much as the next person but when it gets selected in rumble pit whenever it comes in the rotation I don’t want to have to dashboard because of some crap gametype. To make it more playable the NR needs a buff.
> > See, that’s why i think Bungie should have just kept the Carbine. Have the same kill times as the human utility but viable in competitive environment.
> >
> > NR isn’t viable for competition, pretty fun to use outside of it but it loses to the DMR because it takes about 7 shot kill to drop shields (10 shot kill with explosion) versus the DMRs five shot kill. Of course, getting a kill against a skilled DMR with NR is much more satisfying and embarrassing (without explosion)
> >
> > I think my numbers may be off with the NR but in the end, i have a rough idea of the two guns being compared.
>
> It doesn’t matter that the shot ratio is different, it’s the RoF of those shots.
> A 6-shot NR varies its kill time to the DMR by hundredths of seconds and allows for sloppier shooting.
You getting good at making coherent sentences. WHAT HAVE DONE WITH REAPER?!
The ROF is irrelevant on the NR though since it takes so much longer to drop shields and you shouldn’t rely on explosion for kills. It’s all fine and dandy to have more pink needles to shoot at with somewhat of a faster ROF but the DMR just pwns the NR as far as dropping shields and landing headshots. It’s the superior gun though NR is fun to use when not wearing try hard pants.
Then the issue with the scope; 3x DMR and 2x on the NR. >.> It should have been symmetrical; both scopes have the same range but it’s imbalanced in the final product.
It definitely needs it in Vanilla settings. Under the TU, however, you can simply hold the trigger down and people die pretty quickly!
I think if they made it stronger, it should only take on less shot otherwise it’s too strong. Personally, I think it’s just fine the way it is. I love both the Needle Rifle and Elite Slayer. I use the Needle Rifle all the time, and I usually do better with it than the DMR. There’s one on almost every map, and nobody picks it up most of the time, so there’s always ammo.
As for Elite Slayer, I would rather play that than regular Slayer most of the time. The only problem I have with it is Camo and the Needler. It messes up the radar and you’re dead before you can figure out where anyone is.
> > > See, that’s why i think Bungie should have just kept the Carbine. Have the same kill times as the human utility but viable in competitive environment.
> > >
> > > NR isn’t viable for competition, pretty fun to use outside of it but it loses to the DMR because it takes about 7 shot kill to drop shields (10 shot kill with explosion) versus the DMRs five shot kill. Of course, getting a kill against a skilled DMR with NR is much more satisfying and embarrassing (without explosion)
> > >
> > > I think my numbers may be off with the NR but in the end, i have a rough idea of the two guns being compared.
> >
> > It doesn’t matter that the shot ratio is different, it’s the RoF of those shots.
> > A 6-shot NR varies its kill time to the DMR by hundredths of seconds and allows for sloppier shooting.
>
> You getting good at making coherent sentences. WHAT HAVE DONE WITH REAPER?!
>
>
> The ROF is irrelevant on the NR though since it takes so much longer to drop shields and you shouldn’t rely on explosion for kills. It’s all fine and dandy to have more pink needles to shoot at with somewhat of a faster ROF but the DMR just pwns the NR as far as dropping shields and landing headshots. It’s the superior gun though NR is fun to use when not wearing try hard pants.
>
>
> Then the issue with the scope; 3x DMR and 2x on the NR. >.> It should have been symmetrical; both scopes have the same range but it’s imbalanced in the final product.
All gametype dependent to make the difference you feel exists.
The ZB-bleedthrough gametypes have the DMR and NR on equal grounds for kill times. On arena size maps, the NR will allow a less precise player to be on par with a DMR user of greater precision.
Both weapons kill within 1/100ths of a second from 1.6 seconds in ZB.
The Vanilla settings take into account bloom and range. Yes the DMR can kill faster than an NR when both are fired as fast as possible, but neither weapons is reliable when spammed and their mid-range kills times with bloom control taken into account reflect this.
Neither weapon is effective when attempting to kill as fast as possible without using any other force multiplier.
The DMR can kill in 1.6 seconds, the NR can kill in 2 seconds, but the chances of that happening are not reliable enough to state that either will do the job as advertised.
In 85% bloom, the NR doesn’t loose its precision or auto-aim when fired in fullauto, but the DMR will loose precision (and magnetism) when fired for the quickest kill time.
That means there is a choice, a player can choose to use the easier to kill NR at the expense of time, or a player can choose the quicker killing DMR at the expense of consistency.
A DMR can spam for a 1.6 second kill, but can miss the 3rd shots on for trying to do so. If 1 shot is missed, the easier to use NR ties the kill time at 2 seconds and can trade kills. Range between the 2 weapons determines how viable it is to use fire control on the DMR to attempt 1.7-1.9 second kills, but always if the DMR misses 1 shot or has to pace for greater than 1.9 second “perfect” kills, then the NR’s ability to miss less often makes it a viable choice.
As Auntie Dot would say “The mathematics are determinate.”
I prefer the 6-shot NR and 4-shot M6 WITH shield popping myself (85% bloom too)
> > > > See, that’s why i think Bungie should have just kept the Carbine. Have the same kill times as the human utility but viable in competitive environment.
> > > >
> > > > NR isn’t viable for competition, pretty fun to use outside of it but it loses to the DMR because it takes about 7 shot kill to drop shields (10 shot kill with explosion) versus the DMRs five shot kill. Of course, getting a kill against a skilled DMR with NR is much more satisfying and embarrassing (without explosion)
> > > >
> > > > I think my numbers may be off with the NR but in the end, i have a rough idea of the two guns being compared.
> > >
> > > It doesn’t matter that the shot ratio is different, it’s the RoF of those shots.
> > > A 6-shot NR varies its kill time to the DMR by hundredths of seconds and allows for sloppier shooting.
> >
> > You getting good at making coherent sentences. WHAT HAVE DONE WITH REAPER?!
> >
> >
> > The ROF is irrelevant on the NR though since it takes so much longer to drop shields and you shouldn’t rely on explosion for kills. It’s all fine and dandy to have more pink needles to shoot at with somewhat of a faster ROF but the DMR just pwns the NR as far as dropping shields and landing headshots. It’s the superior gun though NR is fun to use when not wearing try hard pants.
> >
> >
> > Then the issue with the scope; 3x DMR and 2x on the NR. >.> It should have been symmetrical; both scopes have the same range but it’s imbalanced in the final product.
>
> All gametype dependent to make the difference you feel exists.
> The ZB-bleedthrough gametypes have the DMR and NR on equal grounds for kill times. On arena size maps, the NR will allow a less precise player to be on par with a DMR user of greater precision.
> Both weapons kill within 1/100ths of a second from 1.6 seconds in ZB.
>
> The Vanilla settings take into account bloom and range. Yes the DMR can kill faster than an NR when both are fired as fast as possible, but neither weapons is reliable when spammed and their mid-range kills times with bloom control taken into account reflect this.
> Neither weapon is effective when attempting to kill as fast as possible without using any other force multiplier.
> The DMR can kill in 1.6 seconds, the NR can kill in 2 seconds, but the chances of that happening are not reliable enough to state that either will do the job as advertised.
>
> In 85% bloom, the NR doesn’t loose its precision or auto-aim when fired in fullauto, but the DMR will loose precision (and magnetism) when fired for the quickest kill time.
> That means there is a choice, a player can choose to use the easier to kill NR at the expense of time, or a player can choose the quicker killing DMR at the expense of consistency.
> A DMR can spam for a 1.6 second kill, but can miss the 3rd shots on for trying to do so. If 1 shot is missed, the easier to use NR ties the kill time at 2 seconds and can trade kills. Range between the 2 weapons determines how viable it is to use fire control on the DMR to attempt 1.7-1.9 second kills, but always if the DMR misses 1 shot or has to pace for greater than 1.9 second kills, then the NR’s ability to miss less often makes the a viable choice.
>
> As Auntie Dot would say “The mathematics are determinate.”
I was only referring to Vanilla. The NR for TU is a different beast all together. A broken one at that due to ZB.
Bleedthrough is gone, so the NR was nerfed in that respect. Still don’t see the point of ZB NR if it functioned right in Vanillla (spamming is actually punished, unlike the DMR).
-Yoink!- mathematics, but i prefer the DMR over the NR. The NR is more consistent yes but really, get into a highly competitive game and bring your NR. Your math would fall flat on it’s face when faced with DMRs.
Needle Rifle’s prettier. <3
> Needle Rifle’s prettier. <3
I have…no counter to this 
> > Needle Rifle’s prettier. <3
>
> I have…no counter to this
I win! 
> -Yoink!- mathematics, but i prefer the DMR over the NR. The NR is more consistent yes but really, get into a highly competitive game and bring your NR. Your math would fall flat on it’s face when faced with DMRs.
You cannot beat the math, you can only beat me, huge difference.
> > -Yoink!- mathematics, but i prefer the DMR over the NR. The NR is more consistent yes but really, get into a highly competitive game and bring your NR. Your math would fall flat on it’s face when faced with DMRs.
>
> You cannot beat the math, you can only beat me, huge difference.
No i can beat not only you, but those who choose to use the NR while i am armed with DMR. Unless i drop shots, weakened by nades or other attacks or simply get outplayed, the DMR has the advantage, regardless of the math involved.
Need i mention which gun can wreck vehicles, snipe across maps, and has a better scope?
> Needle Rifle’s prettier. <3
Sounds like Glass though
Topic has been derailed. NR and DMR are fine in the TU SvS but in Elite Slayer the NR is too weak to be used on its own. I think it literally takes half a mag to take a dino down.