Bucks cognitive dissonance

Community Halo Universe
1

So this bugged me a bit in New Blood, but in Bad Blood…

With Buck having to break mickey out of jail, they started arguing back and fourth again about the front and Bucks arguments are just *******ing nonsense. He talks about how bad and terroristic the Front is because of their tactics, but ignores ONI uses the same or even worse underhanded tactics. He KNOWS ONI and the UNSC won’t let a spartan just up and quit and leave, and when Mickey points that out when Buck told him to quit, he says, “Well you still should have tried”. The heck?! Why? He knows the outcome of that. That’s such a stupid thing to say. That’s B.S and he should know that!It seems like whenever moral or ethical questions come up about the military, it’s like his freaking brain turns to mush and just completely forgets or ignores the things that not only ONI does, but he himself has done in order to serve ONI and the UNSC.

Anyway, that just is really bugging me and I wanted to vent about it even though I’m only about 1/2 way through the book.

2

Cus his girl was ONI my dude. He’s got priorities lol

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> 2535431079664485;2:
> Cus his girl was ONI my dude. He’s got priorities lol

Imagine if he started carrying out assassinations and other messed-up stuff for ONI just to impress his crush

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> 2535462294431567;3:
> > 2535431079664485;2:
> > Cus his girl was ONI my dude. He’s got priorities lol
>
> Imagine if he started carrying out assassinations and other messed-up stuff for ONI just to impress his crush

I can imagine Buck doing something like that. He seemed to “show off” to Dare in ODST.

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> 2535462294431567;3:
> > 2535431079664485;2:
> > Cus his girl was ONI my dude. He’s got priorities lol
>
> Imagine if he started carrying out assassinations and other messed-up stuff for ONI just to impress his crush

He went back through Mombasa didn’t he? Mans either got balls of steel or is downright a masochist haha

6

He doest not wanna sleep on the couch ahah

7

It is because the United rebel Front is a organization that utilizes terrorism to achieve it’s ends while the Office of Naval Intelligence is based on real-world intelligence organizations which are designed to do espionage and para-military operations on foreign soil or alien worlds in order to provide valuable intel for the UEG to make effective foreign policy against threats. Because ONI is an intelligence organization that does this stuff and because we’re dealing with human civilization spread across space, rules probably got altered to make ONI more effective in that respect. I haven’t read the book but Buck has a point because the UNF is a terrorist Organization that is acting illegally while ONI is acting through the law.

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> 2535410239320465;7:
> It is because the United rebel Front is a organization that utilizes terrorism to achieve it’s ends while the Office of Naval Intelligence is based on real-world intelligence organizations which are designed to do espionage and para-military operations on foreign soil or alien worlds in order to provide valuable intel for the UEG to make effective foreign policy against threats. Because ONI is an intelligence organization that does this stuff and because we’re dealing with human civilization spread across space, rules probably got altered to make ONI more effective in that respect. I haven’t read the book but Buck has a point because the UNF is a terrorist Organization that is acting illegally while ONI is acting through the law.

Don’t know if you know this but intelligence organizations don’t “act through the law”. CIA, FBI, NSA, etc. They’ve all committed terrorist actions. They are just as much of a terrorist organization as anyone else.

ONI uses bio weapons, unwilling human subjects, assassinations, etc. There is nothing the front does that ONI hasn’t done. The problem is ONI and the UEG think it’s allowable because it’s a means to a end, but don’t think other people should operate the same way for their ends. It’s hypocrisy.

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> 2533274819903178;1:
> So this bugged me a bit in New Blood, but in Bad Blood…
> With Buck having to break mickey out of jail, they started arguing back and fourth again about the front and Bucks arguments are just *******ing nonsense. He talks about how bad and terroristic the Front is because of their tactics, but ignores ONI uses the same or even worse underhanded tactics. He KNOWS ONI and the UNSC won’t let a spartan just up and quit and leave, and when Mickey points that out when Buck told him to quit, he says, “Well you still should have tried”. The heck?! Why? He knows the outcome of that. That’s such a stupid thing to say. That’s B.S and he should know that!It seems like whenever moral or ethical questions come up about the military, it’s like his freaking brain turns to mush and just completely forgets or ignores the things that not only ONI does, but he himself has done in order to serve ONI and the UNSC.
>
> Anyway, that just is really bugging me and I wanted to vent about it even though I’m only about 1/2 way through the book.

Buck is a fan favorite and rightfully so, but he is definitely not the same lovable ODST from Bungie days anymore, I mean when Mickey betrayed Buck, that shattered him and I’m fairly certain Buck just doesn’t want to agree with anything he has to say… you might say his judgement is clouded by anger.

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> 2535431079664485;5:
> > 2535462294431567;3:
> > > 2535431079664485;2:
> > > Cus his girl was ONI my dude. He’s got priorities lol
> >
> > Imagine if he started carrying out assassinations and other messed-up stuff for ONI just to impress his crush
>
> He went back through Mombasa didn’t he? Mans either got balls of steel or is downright a masochist haha

That made me laugh

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> 2533274819903178;8:
> > 2535410239320465;7:
> > It is because the United rebel Front is a organization that utilizes terrorism to achieve it’s ends while the Office of Naval Intelligence is based on real-world intelligence organizations which are designed to do espionage and para-military operations on foreign soil or alien worlds in order to provide valuable intel for the UEG to make effective foreign policy against threats. Because ONI is an intelligence organization that does this stuff and because we’re dealing with human civilization spread across space, rules probably got altered to make ONI more effective in that respect. I haven’t read the book but Buck has a point because the UNF is a terrorist Organization that is acting illegally while ONI is acting through the law.
>
> Don’t know if you know this but intelligence organizations don’t “act through the law”. CIA, FBI, NSA, etc. They’ve all committed terrorist actions. They are just as much of a terrorist organization as anyone else.
>
> ONI uses bio weapons, unwilling human subjects, assassinations, etc. There is nothing the front does that ONI hasn’t done. The problem is ONI and the UEG think it’s allowable because it’s a means to a end, but don’t think other people should operate the same way for their ends. It’s hypocrisy.

If you watch fictional movies and then assume those movies are 100% accurate, then you would easily be able to paint every government agency as a terrorist organization. But if you’ve actually worked with or in a government bureaucracy, you’ll learn very quickly that it’s mostly just a highly inefficient amalgamation of resources and people that have half a dozen agendas that can often conflict with one another. Take it from a government employee… your leaders have no idea what they are doing lol.

Of course there are government conspiracies and black ops that have occurred and still do occur. And I’m not saying I’m cool with that. But I am saying those are thankfully rare in the broad array of things the government does on a day to day basis. The fictional part that makes ONI interesting is that they are pretty much a caricature of an actual intelligence agency.

Say 10% of an intelligence service does shady stuff while 90% is above board (that’s a pretty generous estimate by the way; it’s probably around 99% in reality), with Halo’s ONI, 90% of their work is in the shady arena. It makes for interesting stories when the intelligence organization is shrewd calculating, and pretty much omnipotent, like it is in Halo. Portraying ONI like a real-world intelligence agency would be dreadfully boring.

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> 2535435902217648;11:
> > 2533274819903178;8:
> > > 2535410239320465;7:
> > >
>
> If you watch fictional movies and then assume those movies are 100% accurate, then you would easily be able to paint every government agency as a terrorist organization. But if you’ve actually worked with or in a government bureaucracy, you’ll learn very quickly that it’s mostly just a highly inefficient amalgamation of resources and people that have half a dozen agendas that can often conflict with one another. Take it from a government employee… your leaders have no idea what they are doing lol.
>
> Of course there are government conspiracies and black ops that have occurred and still do occur. And I’m not saying I’m cool with that. But I am saying those are thankfully rare in the broad array of things the government does on a day to day basis. The fictional part that makes ONI interesting is that they are pretty much a caricature of an actual intelligence agency.
>
> Say 10% of an intelligence service does shady stuff while 90% is above board (that’s a pretty generous estimate by the way; it’s probably around 99% in reality), with Halo’s ONI, 90% of their work is in the shady arena. It makes for interesting stories when the intelligence organization is shrewd calculating, and pretty much omnipotent, like it is in Halo. Portraying ONI like a real-world intelligence agency would be dreadfully boring.

It’s not from movies but from actual laws passed and instances like us assassinating publicly elected leaders to install puppet dictators, arming religious terrorists, etc.

I do think that sometimes we might have to act above the law to get something done, it’s just this moralizing to other people who do the exact same thing is just so blatantly hypocritical. Like telling people it’s wrong that other countries try and interfere in our elections when we do the exact same thing. It’s the same as ONI condemning terrorism when they are terrorist themselves.

13

Boi has got his priorities set.

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> 2535410239320465;7:
> It is because the United rebel Front is a organization that utilizes terrorism to achieve it’s ends while the Office of Naval Intelligence is based on real-world intelligence organizations which are designed to do espionage and para-military operations on foreign soil or alien worlds in order to provide valuable intel for the UEG to make effective foreign policy against threats. Because ONI is an intelligence organization that does this stuff and because we’re dealing with human civilization spread across space, rules probably got altered to make ONI more effective in that respect. I haven’t read the book but Buck has a point because the UNF is a terrorist Organization that is acting illegally while ONI is acting through the law.

The single most famous act ONI committed was the kidnapping and bio experimenting of 75 gifted children. That is not “within the law”, unless your definition of the law is what the government says is okay on a case by case basis, in which case…well idk what to say.

The unsc also nuked a whole colony after an uprising. Again, fighting terror with terror doesn’t exactly put ONI on the moral high ground.

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> 2535426515273563;4:
> > 2535462294431567;3:
> > > 2535431079664485;2:
> > > Cus his girl was ONI my dude. He’s got priorities lol
> >
> > Imagine if he started carrying out assassinations and other messed-up stuff for ONI just to impress his crush
>
> I can imagine Buck doing something like that. He seemed to “show off” to Dare in ODST.

he tried not to tell her that he killed engineers but had brutal flashbacks of doing so

16

He’s human like the rest of us mate. Humans make mistakes, we get emotional and sometimes we get stupid.

17

Both squadmates should have remembered the resignations put in by Dutch and Gretchen when they left the armed serves. Granted, that was when they were still just ODSTs and not genetically modified supermen with the most advanced, and expensive, armour technology available.

Come to think of it, I’m not sure if we’ve ever heard of any proper Spartans peacefully retiring into civilian life. Maria-062 went on to begin a family but she was still counted as a member of the reserves and was field testing MJOLNIR armour as late as 2552. I think the material that best analyses the idea of a full-fledged Spartan leaving military service comes in Mortal Dictata.

From Mortal Dictata:

Osman glanced at Naomi. “But the root of this is the UNSC taking your daughter and using her like a weapon. No choice. No consultation. Does she want to be swapped?” She held up a conceding hand. “I’m not lecturing you on morality. That would be disgraceful. I just don’t want to compound the original crime.”

“Is she free to leave the Navy?”

“Yes, she can put in her PVR request and ask for discharge like anyone else. Nobody owns her and nobody can stop her.”

“Really? Just like spies, huh? They can never leave. There’s always someone waiting to tap them on the shoulder to do one more job. Do any Spartans manage to retire?”

“I won’t lie to you. Only one Spartan’s ever retired, and that was another one like me who didn’t go through the full augmentation process, but most ended up MIA or KIA anyway.”

“Do you mind my asking if you meant what you said to Staffan, ma’am?”

She looked off to one side for a second. “I think I did. The question is whether he did.”

“And if Naomi wants to leave the service?”

“Then I have to ask myself if I believe what I say I do, or if I’m like all the others and I opt to solve it the ONI way. But a retired Spartan isn’t any more of a security risk than anyone else leaving special forces. Actually, much less.”

Those are quotes pertaining to the idea of Naomi-010 retiring and potentially returning to her family who happen to be insurrectionist operatives on Venezia. You have Osman’s personal sentiments and empathy for the injustices perpetrated against the families who lost young ones to the Spartan program. I think in her ideal scenario she would prefer to have everything get revealed to the public and for Spartans to be allowed to move on if they so wish. However, notice the final quote and how she establishes this conflict of operational procedures – there’s her own beliefs and then there’s what she refers to as the “ONI way”. What does that imply? Is ONI keen on allowing its treasured military assets, the Spartans, to freely walk away and do as they please? Well you wouldn’t have this differentiation into categories if Osman felt confident that allowing the Spartans the freedom to choose matched up with ONI’s modus operandi.

I think Mickey’s speculation of ONI not allowing him to walk away does hold some merit… that is after he became a Spartan. If he had chosen to hang up his helmet and rifle prior to the request then I think he wouldn’t have had any issues. It’s following the augmentation procedures and all the investment put into him that this becomes questionable.

Both Mickey and Buck had a point during that conversation. Mickey’s fault is not going through with his resignation before commiting himself to the UNSC via promotion to Spartan. Buck’s issue lies in him not appreciating the unscrupulous depths ONI will sink to in order to achieve their goals. The man should know considering his experiences with Dare.

18

He always seemed a little ignorant and arrogant to me. Though I think deep down he means well. He’s not supposed to be a superman idealistic character (at least I hope not).