I mean, that’s literally what I do with a BR. I’m trying to figure out what the difference really is, and why people hate the BR so much
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Bruh halo isn’t a strategy game
They hate the BR because deep down they know what happens when it’s in the hands of a top tier player. That’s why “precision” halo is so disliked because we destroy. Funny thing is we destroy in AR starts too just less because it’s usually because we’re in situations we can’t fight back in.
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I actually do think a lot of the hate people have for BR’s is skill based. They’re not particularly good with it so they don’t want to be saddled with it exclusively. They try to justify this issue by saying its the other way around, and that the AR takes more skill etc.
And honestly I get an absurd amount of kills in things like BTB BECAUSE it’s AR starts. I just went 43 and 2 a few minutes ago in fact, because I camped the shock rifle and sniper spawns on Breaker.
If it was BR starts I would have a tougher time of it
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It is more of one then CoD that is for sure.
It’s kind of always been a rock-paper-scissors game even though they said they didn’t plan for it to be. Some weapons and strategies just always work better than others. A Sniper or Shock Rifle beats pretty much everything if you’re a good shot. An AR is mid tier at best because it works really well in a specific scenario but is nearly useless outside of that scenario.
The BR is high tier yes, because it can do a little bit of everything by itself. The fair trade off with it is that at close range almost everything beats it soundly. It’s got a slow but steady kill time, and if your aim isn’t great then it feels like you’re shooting BB’s. That’s why I prefer the BR. It works in more situations but isn’t the best option for any one of them. A sniper class weapon is better at long range, several other rifles and power weapons are faster kills at medium range, most things are better at close range, and it has a comparatively slow time to kill so you can outplay people shooting you with it.
Also it does almost no damage to vehicle armor, you can only fight vehicles with it by shooting exposed pilots/drivers/gunners. So it’s balanced there compared to a lot of the sandbox that can actually destroy the vehicle by spamming it anywhere on them.
Does any of this help understand my mindset?
Dude we understand your mindset. It’s not that hard to get. You like the BR and always want one. That’s the core of basically every post I’ve seen. You’re just not trying to understand everyone else’s mindset because you don’t understand how they can have fun or enjoy this game in a different way than the way you do.
We have tried to explain why we like the game as is with AR and tried to elaborate by describing the common play style that occurs when you spawn with a BR. Every time you just respond by asking the same question we’ve answered already and frequently if we ask you a question you don’t directly answer it, but deflect using the same questions you’ve asked before.
I’m not trying to attack you or be mean. I’m just citing a pattern I’ve seen throughout this thread.
I get why people think they prefer AR starts, I just think it’s a bit misguided in a lot of cases. On smaller maps AR starts is fine, the AR and Sidekick can land shots from any position on most of them. The funny thing is that both are mid tier weapons in ranked because they BEAT THE BR at close range by such a margin.
On BTB they’re liabilities, it’s just the nature of the sandbox. The only time AR starts has ever worked well in btb was in CE Where we had the god tier pistol.
And yeah you can still use anything anytime anywhere, but nothing feels worse than when you’re watching the enemy cap the flag and can’t do anything about it. But then I actually like WINNING
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And there’s the issue. You are 100% dedicated to saying that everyone else that does not have the same opinion as you is wrong. That means that this entire thread is not a discussion, it’s an argument that you are going to perpetually have with anyone else.
You are showing that you’re not going to change your mind and no matter what anyone else says to you they are wrong. This is not how you have a healthy discussion on the forums. It’s just an argument and no one likes arguments because everyone feels terrible afterwards and no one’s the winner.
Added: all I can really suggest to try to get you to understand other people’s point of view is to check out Ascend Hyperion on YouTube. He has a video about Halo 3 possibly being better without the BR. This video explains all the reasons why BR starts is hindering to the core gameplay flow of Halo. Not just Halo 3, but all Halo titles. They all function around the “Golden Triangle” and “The Dance”. By always starting with a BR you are inherently disrupting the Golden Triangle and The Dance.
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I’ve watched his video and his theories are incredibly flawed. AR starts offers no real sense of strategy(I’m sorry but if you consider it strategy to find weapons in spots no one will ever fight you in im sorry but it’s not) if you like dying because you can’t fight reasonably back then that’s ridiculous. No game out there is like that.
Having only an AR and Sidekick on large maps is directly hindering the golden triangle, and there is no dance in these circumstances.
The reason you strafe, crouch strafe, jump, peek shoot, etc. with the BR specifically and really no other weapons is due to the timing of the burst fire aspect. No other weapons in the game work that way. There is no “dance” when you’re using AR’s, its just hosing people down and hoping you got the first bullet on them and miss less than they do. There’s no nuance to it.
I would say the sidekick is the more nuanced of the two, but all anyone does with it is spam the trigger as fast as possible and use it like another AR anyway, so that’s out the window.
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The thing is when its AR Starts you can use other weapons and have a decent chance in winning a couple engagements. But when you spawn with a BR, DMR, OP CE PISTOL you have a very small chance in getting kills with other weapons that are weaker then those.
You see it would be one thing if Human weapons weren’t always super op in every Halo game and Forerunner and Covenant Weapons were the best to use in damage and usefulness. But for some strange reason Bungie and 343 always makes them weaker then Human Weapons. Which really doesn’t make any type of sense. Covenant Weapons are 1,000 years ahead of Human Weapons and Forerunner Weapons are 100,000 years ahead of both of them. So it literally makes no sense at all.
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But almost every weapon in the game kills faster than the BR, so there are lots of weapons you can beat someone using a BR with
It’s not about how fast they kill. It’s about how accurate and how reliable the weapon is at delivering damage. The BR is reliable at all ranges meaning that it is always a good choice to have.
The core weapon loop Halo utilizes is fair starts designed for you to trade up for better weapons. When you spawn with the most all purpose weapon in the game then you’re never doing that. You won’t move to go for other weapons other than power weapons. It directs movement paths to very specific lanes and areas. This means that map movement becomes stale and predictable. Some people are going to camp base, others power weapons and a few will move around the map possibly in vehicles. You no longer have engagements throughout the entire map. You’re only fighting in a few specific areas.
Variety is the spice of life and always having the best gun for almost any situation is boring. You’ll never use anything else and the game gets super repetitive very fast.
Spawn at base, stay at base and try to shoot across the map at the enemy team doing the same.
Spawn out in the open, get BRed by everyone instantly and die with 100% no chance to fight back.
Spawn in a safe location and see that a power weapon is available, move to it and maybe get into a fight or just multi BRed/sniped when you get close.
This is what BR starts is. Those 3 scenarios. Sure is some fun variety in that. A whole 3 options, our cup runneth over.
It’s also clear form that response you don’t know what “The Dance” is.
I already explained that the BR isn’t the best weapon for every situation. It’s just one of the few weapons that work in just about any situation. Your alternative is a weapon that works in one situation. That’s why every BTB match has one or two people going super positive and the rest of the people getting less than 10 kills.
And I explained the Dance. In detail. There isn’t one with the AR, it’s a bullet hose.
The Dance is how weapons and vehicles interact with player movement and game flow. Not the little bobbing and weaving you do in a fight. Halo is built upon encouraging players to move throughout the map for multiple reasons.
WHEN YOU GIVE THE PLAYER AN ALL PURPOSE WEAPON THAT IS RELIABLE AT ANY RANGE YOU DISRUPT THE DANCE. Players will not be encouraged to leave areas for better weapons unless they want a power weapon or vehicle. This means that player engagements only happen in a few locations on a map. Everyone uses the same gun constantly and combat becomes repetitive and boring.
Do you understand what I’m explaining to you?
I also never said that the BR was the best weapon for every situation. I have said from the beginning that it’s too reliable at all ranges making good for most encounters.
The Dance is how engagements go down. There is no dance with automatic weapons like the AR. Your movement is mostly irrelevant, your timing is mostly irrelevant, your aim is mostly irrelevant, etc. the only thing that’s relevant is who gets the first shot and how many randomly spreading bullets you miss. Therefore the only deciding factor is who shoots first and the range.
At the very least there is a bonus for headshots on all weapons after shields are broken, so drifting up the body to land the last two bullets on the head is sort of a strategy, but it only matters in AR vs AR fights so it’s not that relevant.
AR starts is like playing Rock Paper Scissors and the only thing you can ever pick is rock. I’ve not seen a single person who likes AR starts that has very good stats or ranks, that’s a strong correlation. Players that care about their stats at all prefer BR starts because they don’t like dying over and over without being able to fight back or help their team. It’s fine to not care about stats or how well you do, but it shows the disconnect between the two groups and why this is such a constant debate.
If your goal is, as you say, to not be too strong right away, why not just start the game with NO weapons and have to find them? Battle Royale style? I would play it, I also like knowing how best to spawn kill people who can’t fight back.
And to finally address this point specifically:
This is literally what happens in AR starts, every single game. People grab a long range weapon and post up to spawn kill people with ARs. People camp weapon spawns at their bases and never leave the area after they get the weapon because they can sit on their base killing people.
AR starts directly causes every issue you’re stating BR starts would cause.
The biggest source of this problem is map design and weapon layout. Some maps are way too open, with way too many good weapons in close proximity to the initial spawn. Breaker is probably the worst offender for this. Even a mediocre player like me can just ego the sniper and shock rifle all game and never feel threatened by anything but the enemy sniper or shock rifle. Heck, I have a few big multikills with the stalker rifle even.
Maybe the best designed map so far is Fragmentation. You can’t see past the central structure to the other side of the map, you have to either wait for the enemy to come to you or move up to see them at their spawn. Then there are the loot caves which create a huge bonus to leaving your spawn and controlling those spots on the map. My favorite thing to do is get the loot cave weapons and sit on the enemy base spawn killing them until I run out of ammo or they wise up and stop trying to fight me.
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Oh you’re 100% right about map design and layout being key, but what people spawn also influence where they go or even if you go anywhere. Deadlock, Behemoth and Breaker are perfect examples. Placing weapons at specific points can get players to move out or stay out.
Behemoth: most engagements happen at the bases or towers because that’s where cover, weapons and vehicles are.
Deadlock: has encounters all around the map because of vehicle and weapon placement. Some weapons encourage you to stay at base and others move you out to other points.
Breaker: weapon placement heavily encourages staying in one spot.
Let’s use Deadlock as an example of BR starts. Currently the number of ranged weapons on Deadlock is limited, but by giving everyone BR starts then most players stay at base to just have cross map BR fights from base to base. Some will go for the power weapons and maybe one or two will try for vehicles.
In this scenario engagement is heavily located at base where you spawn and will not advance very far beyond base boundaries.
The key thing to keep in mind is map size and range coverage of the weapons. Deadlock and Behemoth are both medium large maps. This makes the BR a consistent and viable weapon at all times. If you look at Sandtrap in Halo 3, having BR starts on that map is fine because it’s a huge map. You can not shoot from one side to the other with the BR. You can on Deadlock. Don’t listen to what other people tell you… size does matter. Allowing everyone to fire across the map anytime anywhere is not fun for anyone. That devolves into just spawn camping.
On Deadlock I just get a sniper class weapon and a BR and kill waves of people who can’t fight back, that’s my point.
As much as I like having a high KD, it feels dirty and highlights poor choices they made with the game.
How is it fun to go 5 and 15 every match? That’s what you guys aren’t getting across to me and why I won’t budge on this topic.
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This isn’t true at all. I don’t see a Heatwave, Pulse Carbine, Bulldog, Ravager, Shock Rifle, and so killing enemies across the map at all times. The Battle Rifle in Halo is already OP as it is by not having bloom on the weapon while every other weapon does. Stop trying to confuse people with false claims. 