BTB really isn't fun without BR starts

I don’t understand how this is still a thing, AR starts on these maps just doesn’t work to anyone’s benefits.

What inevitably happens is extremely predictable. A few specific players sit at the base waiting for sniper spawns, and pad their kd’s while everyone else runs into the middle of the map like a mosh pit.

That’s it, that’s the meta. There aren’t enough weapons on the maps to justify AR starts, because several people are always stuck without a weapon that can help the team, or even help themselves get out of most situations.

BR’s don’t make vehicles less viable, because BR’s don’t do hardly any damage to vehicle armor. They do help good players shoot enemies off of warthog turrets, but that’s it. So that’s not an argument.

BR’s do not make weapon variety less of a goal, because the only weapon you would pick up and use more often in AR starts than you would in BR starts is the Commando, or the BR itself, which any rational player is constantly trying to do the instant they spawn. So that’s not an argument.

What is a good argument in favor of AR starts then? I can’t think of one.

I’m typically going double digit positive because I know where the weapons are, and the poor little npc’s are running around unable to even fight back in many cases. This is entertaining if you’re looking for absurd clips or something, but its really not good game design if you want everyone to have a good experience.

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I think I’d prefer the Pistol be replaced with Commando’s, since it’s decent for range. Then replace all commando’s with Battle Riffles on the map.

Commando’s aren’t as good as Battle Ridles for ranged fights. But they’re decent enough for the size of the maps. There will be more Battle Rifles on the maps as well over all.

I just don’t want to get in fights were everyone has a battle rifle. That might be a bit over kill.

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Commando spawns in BtB would be cool.

The issue with BR starts is the same as the issue with DMR starts in Reach and 4. Unlike the BR in Halo 2 and 3, Infinite’s is laser-accurate at extreme ranges, and has no downside to keep it from being oppressive. The Commando on the other hand functions with a range limitation similar to the BR in those games. It can work with skill and control, but it will suffer a slower killtime as you pace out your shots and have to aim more carefully.

Then with only 4-6 BRs on the map they don’t utterly oppress you and outright punish movement in the open.

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I’d play it. Throw some BR start gametypes in the mix. Why not? I also like the General’s AR/Commando idea too.

There isn’t any reason why every game has to have the same loadout. They should mix it up,

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So heres the truth

-BRs do weaken vehicles (their ease of use at range allows people to hide better from vehicles and more easily headshot the people in vehicles out of them)

-BR starts do prevent people from picking up more weapons than AR starts do, just play ranked and you will see the difference, the weapon variety drastically drops (there are various reasons but the biggest is the BR is just too good and its hard to make any weapons aside from power weapons that can beat it and not be OP, this is by design as in past games it was the “Utility weapon” and designed to be better than most guns 90% of the time)

-BR starts reduce map movement (with hitscan bullets, basically no recoil, zoom, near perfect accuracy, a large mag size, and long rang its easy to get to a sight line and prevent enemy team movements, ARs allow for people to move more freely as you cant just beam someone from across the map)

-BR starts don’t match the original sandbox design of CE which i think Infinite was trying to resemble (the Magnum was of course very strong but that was not an intentional “utility weapon”, one lone dev secretly buffed the magnum right before release so the sandbox was not designed around one utility weapon with most guns just there to cover the very infrequent situations in which a map weapon could be better but rather most guns have a unique roll and a more diversified use rate was intended)

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I was about to type a bulletpoint reply to this but it would take me quite some time since there are so many arguments in favor, so I’ll just say that you simply don’t understand how arena shooters work. I’m sick of people who don’t understand what halo is about trying to make the devs change the game.

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In all of my maps I put in 99% of all of the weapons that are in the game including the BR at each base. Why? cuz I believe that a user has the right to use “ANY” weapon they want to use in a game. Now I start some of my games with Assault Rifle and Rocket Launcher for BTB Maps and for Close Quarters maps I use the BR and a Assault Rifle for starting Weapons.

Peace! :fist_right: :fist_left:

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Oh my…! I completely agree with you. But that would change the Halo game play loop that forcing players when they run out of ammo to scavenge around looking for whatever weapon they can find. And this is why Halo Infinite still plays like a 20-year-old game. Halo Infinite doesn’t give its players enough agency. Why shouldn’t a player be able to use what works best for them…

I agree about what some of what you stated. 90% weapons respawn in 60 seconds. Sniper Rifle and other beefy weapons reset in 180 seconds. I also turned off the instant clearing of weapons when a player is killed. So there always a weapon on the ground someplace so you don’t have to run all over the map to find a weapon. Also, when killed you always respawn at your base where all the weapons are at your base. So you can pick whatever weapons you want to use.

I have always had this type of setup in all of my Capture The Flag maps since Halo Combat Evolved was released. Seems to work well. Granted alot of people may not like the way I setup my servers . . . That’s kool! Nobody is making you play on my server setups.

Peace! :fist_right: :fist_left:

If the AR is so OP, as some of the eSports wannabes always whine about; Then why is the first thing everyone does at the start of BTB is race to swap it out…

Halo Infinite’s weapons damage models are all over the place and inconsistent. Now, it is true that some of these damage model problems could be the result of questionable net=code. But compared to other games, the overall weapons game play in Halo Infinite is just not fun. And the dismal player count proves it.

It’s at this point I can hear some say, it’s about the lack of content. Which is a contributing factor. But let me remind everyone that Halo is supposed to be a First Person Shooter not a first person content. Indeed, if the weapons feel fun to use, then that along can proved some kind of replay ability.

So, to answer your question: “What is a good argument in favor of AR starts then?” Well, unless they make some significant changes, it seems to me there is no good argument for keeping AR starts.

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Every single halo tries this and fails. AR starts is always replaced by BR/DMR starts eventually, and they let AR starts have its own playlist that always keeps a low population.

It’s not “changing halo”, because it’s ALWAYS BEEN HALO.

AR starts only worked in CE because the Pistol was the best weapon in the game.

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I disagree with just about all of that.

BR starts doesn’t restrict map movement, especially not more than AR starts. All anyone does in AR starts is crouch near the precision weapon spawns and snipers, or jump in vehicles. People hide from more fights than they participate in.

AR starts encourages the worst kind of cowardly gameplay in btb. People stack power weapons and never share so only a few people inevitably have a high kda while everyone else is fighting over scraps and dying over and over.

This isn’t hot air, it’s actually what happens every single match at every single skill level when AR starts is involved. The AR and Sidekick are both extremely strong at close range and can work quite well out to a certain mid range point. But they’re anchors in the context of btb.

And like I said, AR starts in CE we’re just Pistol starts. Every game since had BR, DMR, or some combination of the three as their main game types.

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I dont really agree.
I think br starts stgnate the game.
Commando starts ftw!

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That would absolutely be an improvement to AR starts, especially in BTB.

But honestly, how does BR starts stagnate the game?

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Its just so damn good and bloody reliable, when it isnt jamming that is.
It makes the matches far less varied. Its all mid range brs. I think the ar is good enough it warrants being picked up where as the commando can kill at range can spam at close and plays well with the side kick and its a good teaching gun for shot pacing while also being great on the assist. So for me the commando makes a great btb starter as it sort of lends to all kinds of players if that make sense.

Dont get me wrong percsion btb with brs is fun but i think its too good for the standrad btb modes.
Its deserving of its pick up status if we had it all the time many other weapons would just be ignored more.

Totally get thats subjective opinion though. Just how i feel personally.
I love the br but it isnt the halo sandbox and we tend to lean on it as a community.

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no one should be forced to pick up other weapons off spawn. That just sounds redundent. It makes sense to fight for power “stuff” but if you are not risking fighting over power then its unbalanced pvp(might as well be fiesta) . Picking up random uncontested weapons on a map should be a choice and it shouldnt buff the player, only change your stats fairly and modify tactics aka changing your class.

Saying AR starts is better because it makes people pick up other weapons, is not a good argument. If no one is picking up weapons in ranked then the problem is the weapon designs. However, people do pick up weapons. The pros use everything. If you see people not using the sandbox then thats their choice. (a bad choice since they have a free secondary slot). But it goes to show, there are people who like to just stick to the weapon theyre good at even at a disadvantage, and not because the weapon is overpowered.

343 give players 1 weapon starts to make people use the sandbox more, but all they really did was handicap players who dont pick up weapons and created an unhealthy skill gap where parts of the community struggle to play together.

i used to think the BR was overpowered in classic halo but what i really had an issue with was map design and movement which are much better balance wise in infinite.

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I’ve had no problem finding BRs on the map. Yeah I’m the beginning everybody runs for them but I guess it’s to get you to pick up other guns.

I like the AR, I know MCC has starter BRs so it’s like why no infinite?

They do things for a reason. I’m sure we’ll all get what we want sooner or later!

343 is really slow going with getting the game up to MCC levels of experience customization. Youll get what you want in due time.

That due time is probably half a year or more.

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For the definitive experience Id say most people should stay away until season 7 or so. 343 usually takes their Adderall at that point and can pay attention to the communty for long enough to understand what we’ve been screaming in their faces for the past few years.