BTB Needs to be a huge priority. 64 players.

Would love to see Halo: Infinite adopt the big battlefield. Elites vs Spartans or mixed. I just want to control a Scarab!!!

> 2533274800944546;1:
> Would love to see Halo: Infinite adopt the big battlefield. Elites vs Spartans or mixed. I just want to control a Scarab!!!

I agree with the expansion of large scale battles. However there still should be 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, 8v8, 16v16, 32v32. Give the game some variety.

BTB is 8v8. 32v32 isn’t even Halo.

Game design doesn’t scale nicely and the Halo sandbox is not built for that scale, from the AI to the shooting mechanics, map design and beyond. I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a great game set in the Halo universe that supports that many players, it just can’t be part of the core Halo titles.

In order to make it work you would need to completely destroy Halo’s(as in the mainline entries) identity.

> 2533274819446242;3:
> BTB is 8v8. 32v32 isn’t even Halo.
>
> Game design doesn’t scale nicely and the Halo sandbox is not built for that scale, from the AI to the shooting mechanics, map design and beyond. I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a great game set in the Halo universe that supports that many players, it just can’t be part of the core Halo titles.
>
> In order to make it work you would need to completely destroy Halo’s(as in the mainline entries) identity.

Halo’s identity is not defined by the mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game. There’s much more to the franchise than that.

Personally, I would love to see much larger multiplayer battles in Infinite.

> 2533274792372732;4:
> > 2533274819446242;3:
> > BTB is 8v8. 32v32 isn’t even Halo.
> >
> > Game design doesn’t scale nicely and the Halo sandbox is not built for that scale, from the AI to the shooting mechanics, map design and beyond. I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a great game set in the Halo universe that supports that many players, it just can’t be part of the core Halo titles.
> >
> > In order to make it work you would need to completely destroy Halo’s(as in the mainline entries) identity.
>
> Halo’s identity is not defined by the mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game. There’s much more to the franchise than that.
>
> Personally, I would love to see much larger multiplayer battles in Infinite.

errr it kind of is. this isnt battlefield. this is Halo. anything more than 8v8 would be a cluster F* with Halos gameplay style

BTB should always remain 8v8. That’s what it has always been, and that’s the BTB I want to play. I don’t see value in adding more players. Changing the number of players drastically changes how the game plays and feels, and I very much like the style of BTB. Adding more players, bigger maps, more vehicles, and more chaos to it doesn’t make it any more fun.

In a perfect world, I wouldn’t be against increasing the player counts to whatever as long as traditional BTB was retained. In practice, however, game design is very much a zero sum process. 32v32 requires maps specifically designed for it, which means that there will be less arena or BTB maps. Halo has always struggled with the number of maps at launch to begin with. Some smaller BTB maps are at least useable for 4v4, which helps with variety a bit. If you added 32v32, the specific maps would be completely on their own, unuseable for traditional gameplay.

If 343i at some points wants to make a spin-off game that completely deviates from traditional Halo and has some huge 32v32 matches, or battle royale, or whatever and is designed for it from the ground up, that’s totally fine by me. However, Halo Infinite is not that game, and I want in it what I expect a traditional Halo to include.

Halo as one of the first combined arms FPS (even though MLG would like to forget about that) seems like it is one of the franchise that is ripe for using a player count beyond 16 players. However there is another aspect for Invasion that could get the big battles of the campaign, and that is adding AI infantry formations (grunts/marines) and AI controlled/piloted vehicles. I would like to see something like an Invasion type Warzone where players are Spartans or Elites and call AI formations from their faction to assist in the fight in which * players per team is more than enough. This all players are Spartans with anyone spawning any AI ally be it Promethean, covenant, or UNSC just because they got the card was a sorry excuse to purchase Req Packs loot boxes. But Invasions with Marines/ODST AI on the UNSC side and Grunt/Jackals on the Covenant side would make a 6v6 Spartan vs Elite match seem much larger in terms of Big Epic Battles.

Still I think community creations for Halo would benefit greatly by a higher player count, keep the match made playlists at the 4v4 to 8v8 range but let custom matches go as high as the netcode would allow. 32, 64, 128? Either of those can work just as well as 8v8 or 6v6 matches. Now there has been a few threads talking about some sort of Battle Royale mode for Halo which IMHO would be a big mistake for 343 to make such a mode. But I still stand if 343 was able to up the player count and give the community the forge tools then the community could make the Halo Battle Royale or whatever the next big FPS trend would be.

I am all for more options, but I also understand the need to direct the game play environment. Keep the matchmaking capped at 8v8, but let us go crazy on custom matches with 64v64 if able, if not then 16v16 would be fine.

While I would appreciate the custom games cap to be increased to acomadate larger parties I don’t think BTB should be changed. Leave it to the customs community to create fun experiences for larger than traditional caps.

I’d rather BTB stay 8v8 but open to them trying bigger player counts in different modes like they did with WZ.

> 2533274798778494;2:
> > 2533274800944546;1:
> > Would love to see Halo: Infinite adopt the big battlefield. Elites vs Spartans or mixed. I just want to control a Scarab!!!
>
> I agree with the expansion of large scale battles. However there still should be 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, 8v8, 16v16, 32v32. Give the game some variety.

Maybe Infinite will adopt the Match Composer from MCC and make this all happen.

I’d variety the only reason? Cause I can say I’ll avoid 64vs64, I already have issues with warzones 12vs12 as is. The more players added, the less reliant you can be on yourself and the more chaotic the game will be, that’s just not for me. I also wouldn’t support 64vs64 “if” they got rid of the 8v8 format for that. If it’s an added option fine, that said if 64v64 takes away from the traditional experience you can count on me having a problem.

I’m fine with anything teamwise that’s 8v8-12v2, since maps would likely be tailored and suited for both these sizes, and gameplay to retain the BTB feel. No Warzone styled gameplay, just CTF, Assault, Slayer, and maybe the occasional KoTH or a reinvented Extraction.

I would honestly be super worried about having so many extra players.

Assuming that the game would be utilizing Microsoft’s dedicated servers, it could be fine from a player stand point. As others have mentioned the maps would be the bigger issue because that would be a lot of code and resources only being used for one function. No recycling because it’s just too big of a map. Halo has almost always had maps that can be used in both BTB and 4v4 Slayer/Objective Game types because of the specific sizes they are created.

Getting back to the server issue; if it DOESN’T run on Microsoft’s dedicated servers, you’re likely to have a lag fest on your hands if a large portion of the players have terrible internet. Having 64 players on one map in one game is one way to find a lot of poor internet quality.

I also don’t know how I feel about having so many people in one place. That’s part of the reason I didn’t really get into Battlefield. Don’t they have large player counts per game?

> 2533274792372732;4:
> > 2533274819446242;3:
> > BTB is 8v8. 32v32 isn’t even Halo.
> >
> > Game design doesn’t scale nicely and the Halo sandbox is not built for that scale, from the AI to the shooting mechanics, map design and beyond. I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a great game set in the Halo universe that supports that many players, it just can’t be part of the core Halo titles.
> >
> > In order to make it work you would need to completely destroy Halo’s(as in the mainline entries) identity.
>
> Halo’s identity is not defined by the mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game. There’s much more to the franchise than that.
>
> Personally, I would love to see much larger multiplayer battles in Infinite.

Halo as a wider franchise isn’t, but ‘Halo’ the specific FPS series very much is. I left the door open for spinoff titles. That being said, ‘Halo’ the series of FPS games does come with a set of expectations for what it will be.

I don’t want ‘Halo’ in name only, I still very much enjoy those “mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game.” Trying to fit in 64 players would fundamentally change the game on a scale we haven’t seen before and again, I still very much enjoy what we already had. 64 Players won’t make the game better, it will simply make it different. Some people might very well enjoy that change, but it won’t be ‘Halo’.

> 2533274819446242;14:
> > 2533274792372732;4:
> > > 2533274819446242;3:
> > > BTB is 8v8. 32v32 isn’t even Halo.
> > >
> > > Game design doesn’t scale nicely and the Halo sandbox is not built for that scale, from the AI to the shooting mechanics, map design and beyond. I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a great game set in the Halo universe that supports that many players, it just can’t be part of the core Halo titles.
> > >
> > > In order to make it work you would need to completely destroy Halo’s(as in the mainline entries) identity.
> >
> > Halo’s identity is not defined by the mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game. There’s much more to the franchise than that.
> >
> > Personally, I would love to see much larger multiplayer battles in Infinite.
>
> Halo as a wider franchise isn’t, but ‘Halo’ the specific FPS series very much is. I left the door open for spinoff titles. That being said, ‘Halo’ the series of FPS games does come with a set of expectations for what it will be.
>
> I don’t want ‘Halo’ in name only, I still very much enjoy those “mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game.” Trying to fit in 64 players would fundamentally change the game on a scale we haven’t seen before and again, I still very much enjoy what we already had. 64 Players won’t make the game better, it will simply make it different. Some people might very well enjoy that change, but it won’t be ‘Halo’.

How would adding a larger scale battle change Halo? Warzone didn’t change Arena. 64v64 wont change 4v4.

I was thinking more along the lines of 16v16 for BTB. 64 players just sounds too chaotic and not very fun.

> 2533274798778494;15:
> > 2533274819446242;14:
> > > 2533274792372732;4:
> > > > 2533274819446242;3:
> > > > BTB is 8v8. 32v32 isn’t even Halo.
> > > >
> > > > Game design doesn’t scale nicely and the Halo sandbox is not built for that scale, from the AI to the shooting mechanics, map design and beyond. I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a great game set in the Halo universe that supports that many players, it just can’t be part of the core Halo titles.
> > > >
> > > > In order to make it work you would need to completely destroy Halo’s(as in the mainline entries) identity.
> > >
> > > Halo’s identity is not defined by the mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game. There’s much more to the franchise than that.
> > >
> > > Personally, I would love to see much larger multiplayer battles in Infinite.
> >
> > Halo as a wider franchise isn’t, but ‘Halo’ the specific FPS series very much is. I left the door open for spinoff titles. That being said, ‘Halo’ the series of FPS games does come with a set of expectations for what it will be.
> >
> > I don’t want ‘Halo’ in name only, I still very much enjoy those “mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game.” Trying to fit in 64 players would fundamentally change the game on a scale we haven’t seen before and again, I still very much enjoy what we already had. 64 Players won’t make the game better, it will simply make it different. Some people might very well enjoy that change, but it won’t be ‘Halo’.
>
> How would adding a larger scale battle change Halo? Warzone didn’t change Arena. 64v64 wont change 4v4.

“Warzone didn’t change Arena” you’re joking right? You think Warzone and by extension larger maps didn’t have an impact on the reasoning behind unlimited sprint, clamber, the addition of ADS to every weapon in the sandbox, the lack of dev BTB and so on? Development doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Any competent developer is going to take these things into account and it will lead to compromises. And from where I am sitting Warzone is a total write off as a gamemode that very clearly ate up a lot of development time and resources that could have been spent making a game I might enjoy 100% of rather than just a portion. So it didn’t just affect 4v4 Arena(and lets keep in mind that traditional BTB still falls under the ‘Arena’ umbrella), it affected my entire experience with Halo 5.

Keep in mind this was the addition of another 8 players total, trying to stuff just another 40 players on top of that into a single map in on another scale entirely. Halo just isn’t built for that kind of combat range and scale. Everything from the sandbox, to the console aim assist/bullet mag, to the spawn system, to player traits, to the very notion of map pickups need to be radically overhauled to try and make that work.

There is a reason that small scale esports has never taken off in the Battlefield series and that is because the way the game is built from the ground up doesn’t lend itself to that kind of gameplay and the reverse is also true. Trying to take a series built with a smaller scale in mind like Halo and throw huge numbers of players in it is never going to work without enormous, identity changing compromises.

It is incredibly naive to think that 64v64 or 32v32 or even Warzone’s comparatively modest 12v12 won’t have an effect on 8v8 or 4v4 or literally every other aspect of the game.

I too have had my share of dreams of a larger scale game set in the Halo universe, but shackling it to the main series is only going to hold both it and the core Halo games back from reaching their full potential.

> 2533274798778494;15:
> > 2533274819446242;14:
> > > 2533274792372732;4:
> > > > 2533274819446242;3:
> > > > BTB is 8v8. 32v32 isn’t even Halo.
> > > >
> > > > Game design doesn’t scale nicely and the Halo sandbox is not built for that scale, from the AI to the shooting mechanics, map design and beyond. I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a great game set in the Halo universe that supports that many players, it just can’t be part of the core Halo titles.
> > > >
> > > > In order to make it work you would need to completely destroy Halo’s(as in the mainline entries) identity.
> > >
> > > Halo’s identity is not defined by the mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game. There’s much more to the franchise than that.
> > >
> > > Personally, I would love to see much larger multiplayer battles in Infinite.
> >
> > Halo as a wider franchise isn’t, but ‘Halo’ the specific FPS series very much is. I left the door open for spinoff titles. That being said, ‘Halo’ the series of FPS games does come with a set of expectations for what it will be.
> >
> > I don’t want ‘Halo’ in name only, I still very much enjoy those “mechanics of a nearly twenty year old game.” Trying to fit in 64 players would fundamentally change the game on a scale we haven’t seen before and again, I still very much enjoy what we already had. 64 Players won’t make the game better, it will simply make it different. Some people might very well enjoy that change, but it won’t be ‘Halo’.
>
> How would adding a larger scale battle change Halo? Warzone didn’t change Arena. 64v64 wont change 4v4.

Warzone changed arena by consuming development time and resources that could have gone into further polishing and refining arena. This lack of polish in arena can be seen in the lack of developer made maps for BTB (or BTB being completely absent at launch) and the developers creating “remixes” of arena maps as a way to cut development time by reusing assets. As I grind to 152 (who knows maybe I might lose steam) the detriments of Warzone to Halo 5 as a whole becomes more and more apparent.

Yeah that’s gonna be a no from me dawg. Increasing players counts can work really well for games like Battlefield but not for Halo. It sounds good on paper but in the end it ends up being a massive mess.

Now I’m all for having more people in custom games. That’s a place where increasing player counts might work well.

> 2533274800944546;1:
> Would love to see Halo: Infinite adopt the big battlefield. Elites vs Spartans or mixed. I just want to control a Scarab!!!

Yeah 32v32 is too much imo.Most I would do is 16v16