I’ve already said I’m all for more playlists with the BR. So I don’t disagree with that part, just the part where people hate the AR and want that playlist gone.
Just goes to how insanely insular your Halo peer group must be if they’ve been moaning about precision starts in BTB for years.
“Only a few years ago did MCC add auto starts” its almost like there was a reason for that or something. All those people who have been playing one of the historically most popular playlist must have all been deluding themselves.
“ignorance is bliss, which is why I’m going to make completely unsubstantiated claims about how popular auto start BTB is.” Just spectacular.
My argument is that starting with a versatile weapon is necessary to create both a compelling competitive(re: fair), because Halo’s design quirks don’t allow you to overcome bad situations the same way you might be able to in something like Quake. The community figured this out in CE implementing Pistol starts and that has carried on throughout Halo history from the BR, to DMR, to H5 Magnum. It takes virtually no effort to deal with a fresh respawn who either can’t engage you at a distance or predict how they will move and respond accordingly.
Handwaving away everything else I have said and reducing it down to “I want strong gun” is extremely disingenuous.
What’s also disingenuous is the way you pretend there is no possible way to add compelling weapons to the
precision start sandbox outside of a few power weapons. This is patently false. There are any number of weapons that can fill in the sandbox. The Plasma Pistol, CE Plasma Rifle, Certain Needlers, a bullet hose(AR or SMG), ODST SMG, Automag, Mangler, grenade launcher, brute shot/concussion rifle, Plasma Caster, Cindershot, H4 Boltshot, H4 Light Rifle, DMR/Stalker Rifle, Focus Rifle, Ravager, Heatwave, railgun, sticky det, Laser, Shock Rifle, Plasma Launcher, and not to mention all the unique mechanics Halo 5 kept hidden away via req weapons, and I’m sure I’ve probably missed a few others.
Of course not necessarily all of them would coexist at the same time and others might need certain balance tweaks to fit in with others, but its complete nonsense to suggest that there is no way to fill out the sandbox in a way. Its just convenient for your position to stick your head in the sand and pretend these weapons don’t exist and your imagination is so barren you can’t even fathom the idea that entirely new weapons could find a place, let alone many of the older ones that already have.
You don’t seem to have any real capacity to participate in this discussion if “BR OP negates other weapons” is your only position and you don’t engage with any concepts beyond that belief. Its just mindlessly raging at the BR in search of the most superficial variety. You refuse to comprehend that anyone has used or would use anything else other than the BR(or any other precision) if we spawn with it despite that people obviously have and would continue to do so.
The BR is just a convenient scapegoat that allows you to ignore the issues with other aspects of the game. I know this because I used to be the same way. I used to hate utility starts for “ruining variety” before I understood what I was really upset with was the bad design in other parts of the sandbox. I would have loved nothing more than to be able to run around blasting dual Plasma Rifles circa 2007, but even deleting the BR from the game entirely wouldn’t have made it a good weapon, it wouldn’t have changed the fact it was a damage inverted SMG.
Its just funny to see you now blame the dwindling Halo playerbase on precision starts and not all the needless changes to core gameplay and constantly shrinking feature set. over the years(under both Bungie and 343) No obviously it must be the precision starts that people had been enjoying for years prior suddenly drove them away…
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Well, I never said the precision start was responsible for their success but even with, they both were successful. Postums put a poll out around 2 years ago asking what players prefer, AR start or DMR start, it had thousands of votes, DMR won 53/47. I will not deny there’s demand for AR or advocate that a large amount of players have their preference swept from under them like it doesn’t matter, believe me, right now I know exactly what that feels like. It’s a slap in the face.
The way forward is like I’ve suggested a few times on here, it needs to be a ranked version of BTB holding 8v8, precision start and vehicles being on the map from the start, a massive part of BTB was map control to get the vehicles in neutral areas, that aspect of BTB has also gone.
I seriously believe if this game type would have been named something else and BTB kept to it’s original formula, it would have been a hit for casual players without pushing away many from Infinite that loved the classic feel. It’s a big change and there’s a big audience that haven’t taken to it. It’s an issue that can be solved pretty easily and both sides can be happy. Whether they make that decision is debatable.
I get all your reasons for liking the BR, I’ve heard them for years now. This probably isn’t what all AR advocates will say but it is a big reason I support it, I believe players should be brutally punished for not obtaining the power weapons. Similarly MW2 is my favorite COD because if someone got on a killstreak they would usually dominate the game. PUBG is my favorite Battle Royale because if yoy die you could be dead for 30 min. I love the Dark Souls games, miss one dodge and it could be game over. I have no problem getting stomped in a game because I know I’ll probably be able to stomp another team. So I would rather ther be really strong guns on the map that unless you really outplay them they will win the fight. I do think Infinites AR imhas a much better case for being a starter too. It’s way better than any of its former iterations. Anyways I understand you guys and don’t think I haven’t thought about how different or the reasons people like the BR. I just like how games play better with the AR. I think we can all agree that Infinite is doing better at being Halo then 4 and 5 did and I am excited to see where it goes.
Lol you are right, I’m being a bit dramatic. Halo 3 it was perfect because the BR spread made cross map possible but not ideal. Standoff was a perfect example.
He certainly isn’t alone in treating each game just as a Slayer match so I kinda enjoy the progression system punishing them a bit.
I wish they’d just make the AR more of a precision rifle sort of like an automatic BR but with less range. I don’t care for the commando rifle at all.
No BR start in BTB 
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Gimme Magnum starts, baby.
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I had a lot of fun with MW2 as well, I don’t deny that just racking up a bunch of kills can be fun in an of itself, but that is fundamentally no what I want out of a Halo game and I don’t think earning a few kills in one instance is grounds for a player to start smashing the enemy team. Of course with proper use a player can absolutely go on a tear and absolutely ruin the other teams day, but I don’t find it as compelling if the threat of retaliation isn’t there.
Its interesting you bring up Dark Souls because as punishing as it and other souls-like games can be, the best ones are still fundamentally fair. Something like Bloodborne explicitly gives you an opportunity to regain health you lost by no backing down and going on the offensive, to turn what would be a bad outcome(getting hit) and turning into a more positive one regaining health and damaging said enemy further.
Meanwhile in PUBG winning the fight for a crate can be a massive boon for you and your team, but it doesn’t mean you can’t be outdone by a team with lower tier equipment.
As for the AR I don’t have any issue with the AR being powerful in and of itself, in my ideal scenario it would be BR/AR starts, the AR is just inherently limited in a way that you can’t make up for in the same way you can in a more traditional arena shooter.
For all the things Infinite does better, like equipment, there are other disappointments coming in from Halo 4 and 5 where most weapons had snappy TTK’s and weapons based around precision generally shot straight.
That aside the reason I am so fixated on this is precisely because it hampers my enjoyment to such a degree, I have no great love of the BR, especially not this iteration, but the lack of BR starts in a game where the BR is the only real option for a utility weapon does not make for a game I want to play.
I’m a social player I come to play Halo for a more chilled laid back experience and I can’t do that as long as AR starts remain as they are. Granted its not the only thing that I have a problem with, but its the one that gets in the way the most for me at a core gameplay level. Especially when lacking the match composer that allowed me to filter out experiences I hated.
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100% agree. Halo 3 BTB with BR starts is the pinnacle Halo experience for me.
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This reply right here tells me there’s no way you played Halo for 20yrs. You may have dabbled in it, heard of it when you were young, did some customs in H3, etc.
But the only people who think BR starts should be default are MLG players with no sense of game design, and younger players who don’t understand the play/counter-play aspect of arena shooters.
The fact that you view weapons on a quasi ‘gear level’ metric says it all. That’s a younger fps player opinion.
Weapons are supposed excel at a given role. Some work in more roles than others. The ones that work in more roles (work horse weapons like BR, DMR, etc) should found on the field and regulated by respawn rate. If everybody starts with them, you killed your sandbox.
This is how Halo works. MLG, ‘competitive’ settings are a sub-community - they are not playing Halo.
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What you’re suggesting is that BTB in Halo has not been “Halo” for the past 2 decades, where precision weapon starts were standard.
What an absurd statement to make.
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Bungie caving to portions of the community way post launch and hurting their own sandbox doesn’t belay the point.
Reference Bungie’s blogs around H3 launch about why they refocused on AR starts after SMG starts in Halo 2. The points they made then never changed.
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BTB always had precision starts, Bungie’s focus on SMG/AR starts was for smaller 4v4/5v5 modes.
I wish this could be posted to every damn BR start post we get on here. BR starts kill the sandbox and the reason they all want it so bad is because its a great all rounder and they’d use nothing else.
BR starts are bad for the game. Get better.
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Yup BR spawns need to come back ASAP.
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This is so dumb. Only bad players post this. Why don’t you get better? BR starts make for a smoother and more enjoyable experience.
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I disagree. I like AR/Sidekick starts. Less likely to get lazered across the map with a BR. My complaint is that aim assist is almost non existent, making aiming very hard
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I get kills just fine with the BR, AR and most other weapons. You desperately want BR starts so you can ping enemies from a longer range and not get in the thick of it.
From your reply I’m 100% convinced that if you got BR starts you would never use another gun in BTB and that is bad for the sandbox.
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Why would I want to use anything else? It’s the most efficient weapon. Makes no sense to use worse weapons that are worse? Only other weapons worth using are sniper, rockets and a shotgun.
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