So tell me the weapons people never picked up during let’s say h3 BTB with BR starts on.
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They need to bring a ranked BTB with BR starts! The casuals can stick to this boring fest of AR/Magnums and let the classic Halo players enjoy BTB BR STARTS! PLEASE!!!
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If they picked up the following they would lose in a fight unless inside a tight and I mean really tight room to a BR: Spiker, Mauler, Magnum, AR, SMG, Plasma Rifle, sentinel beam, carbine. H3 and Reach are the most poorly balanced Halos do to the BR and DMR. They dominated almost wholesale with very little competition unless the person using one ran into a room and you had a shotgun, sword, or hammer.
The BR has dominated the weapon sandbox for years. It makes it so it’s the only weapon you can use, because if you try to use anything else you get stomped by sweaty BR campers.
I’m ready to move on to something else.
Tell me you don’t know how to use other weapons in Halo’s sandbox without telling me you don’t know how to use other weapons in Halo’s sandbox.
There’s a time and place to use certain weapons, and you seem to have demonstrated your understanding of this with your comment about running into a room with a Shotty/melee weapon. But if you’re trying to use an AR, SMG, or Plasma Rifle at the range a BR excels at, you’re going to have a bad time.
Yes the utility weapon is good in most scenarios, but other weapons can beat the utility under certain circumstances. If you’re listing those weapons as “useless” vs. the BR, that tells me you never figured out the right situation to use those weapons and therefore automatically labeled them as “bad”.
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The problem is that those circumstances hardly ever come up. Why do people need to spawn with a weapon they can use 99.9999% of the time without having any disadvantage in an Arena Shooter? Doesn’t really make sense. Yes you need a useful gun to start but not something that easily beats most other guns in almost every scenario. The AR has enough range to give you access to mid range fights. The BR on the other hand can easily counter and descope a sniper, kill anything with less range than it easily by either killing them before you get close or back peddling, it allows you to stay in your base and beam people mid map, and to top it off there is nothing difficult about using the BR at range, it’s not like it takes a high amount of skill. There is basically recoil, no bloom, it has hitscan bullets, and if everyone spawned with it ammo is never an issue. Seriously the BR is great as a map weapon but when everyone has one it oppresses the sandbox into either have a sniper and hope you don’t get descoped, use a BR, or be within shotgun range to beat the BR. Look I’m not saying I want the BR to go away or that there can’t be another play list for BR users. I think there should be another playlist for BR BTB. If people like that I want them to be able to enjoy it. Infinite being FTP and having cross play will keep player counts high enough to have it like that. Not for all game modes but I think the most popular ones could easily do it. I want a Ranked playlist with AR starts. The game plays drastically different with different starts and I personally like how the AR allows for more weapons to be viable on the map. If the argument was “add BR BTB playlist” I am with you but if it’s replace AR BTB then I can’t support that.
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The 99% is a bit of an exaggeration but at the same time you aren’t obligated to use other weapons besides spawn weapons, it’s a choice. But there are some scenarios where using a different weapon would give you an edge over the opponent, and I don’t just mean traditional power weapons either.
Even if those weapons don’t have as many use cases, it’s mainly because in large BTB maps you don’t have many close range encounters anyways. On smaller maps they do have more of a reason to be used, it’s just this one mode in particular where there’s more of a focus on vehicles and ranged firefights.
And honestly, complaining about certain weapons not getting enough use in BTB is like complaining that you can’t use snipers in infection. Different modes are going to feature different weapons more than others, because that’s the way the mode is designed. It doesn’t mean those other weapons can’t be used elsewhere. That’s why I think separate playlists for BR and AR starts in BTB is the way to go.
Alright I can agree with you there, 343 please give us more playlists without taking away the ones we have. Most of us seem to love the core gameplay we just want more.
Yeah. Gimme a Magnum, baby.
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If you’ve never had close matches up to this point(doubtful) it says way more about you than it does BR starts. You are really going to tell me with a straight face that people won’t pick up something like the Stalker rifle with vastly superior accuracy and TTK, Meanwhile something like the Commando still has range and a significantly faster TTK even with the nerf.
This is why I can’t take you seriously when you spout nonsense like “the BR is too good” when it demonstrably isn’t. Its versatile, which means it can be used in a lot of situations, but the fact that people can rely on it much of the time doesn’t mean there is not better options.
The fact that you an others can’t take advantage of other parts of the sandbox is not something you can blame on BR starts. This has been a common theme throughout much of 343’s tenure with Halo, people said the same thing in Halo 4 and 5 about the precision weapons despite there being any number of strong weapons you could use, but they still stick their heads in the sand and lie about how “the only thing people use is the Pistol.” Since MCC launched on PC the lies have only escalated to the point where people are pretending that DMR starts invalidated all the close range power weapons.
You can’t seem to handle the fact that not all weapons are going to get an equal amount of use, but that is never going to happen, Halo players gravitate towards versatile weapons regardless of whether you spawn with them, because as I said before a Player in Halo simply doesn’t have the capability to out manever players with map control due to various factors, so they need to be able to respond to a variety of them to prevent snoballing and shallow rock paper scissors gameplay.
The game always has revolved around the various precision weapons throughout Halo history, the only thing that needs to change is giving each part of the sandbox a place of its own. You keep pretending like this would require a massive downsizing of the sandbox, but this simply isn’t true.
There are plenty of weapons throughout Halo history(even in Infinite) that could used to create a fully fleshed out sandbox, with some tweaks without downsizing the sandbox to any meaningful degree. Someone is always going to be disappointed that their favorite weapon doesn’t make the cut, but that was always the case. It isn’t realistic to expect literally every weapon in the game. It isn’t about shrinking the sandbox, its about making better use of it, but sadly you are all satisfied with mediocrity as long as no one spawns with the big scaawy BR.
God forbid someone is ever able to just outplay you with skill rather than getting letting fate decide when you hose each other down with your high spread auto weapons.
The simple fact that a weapon has better range does not make it “better” than other close range weapons it just makes it different and your inability to make use of many of these weapons which are objectively better at many ranges just demonstrates your own limits. And for the ones that do get left by the wayside it simply demonstrates 343’s deficiencies in weapon balance and design(One example being the Sidekick which is garbage by design).
“I can’t make use of these other weapons, so that must mean the BR is too powerful”
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So the smg does play a major part on BTB Valhalla same thing with AR to kill the banshee. People always picks up the mauler on rats nest especially for when people are defending the mauler hallway/in any of the lobbies being sneaky/defending. Since there is only two shotties one on each side it’s not always guaranteed to get it so it’s good to pick up mauler. I don’t think I’ve ever seen spiker on a BTB map at least have never noticed if they had any. Sentinel beam was never in h3 BTB from my knowledge. Carbine is still a great secondary to carry around and use. Even could say it’s a nice primary at times. Plasma rifle yeah nobody uses that unless they are out of the secondaries ammo lol. It is nice that it has a fast shoot to melee. Pistol I don’t recall it being a pick-up in BTB. It might have did at one point like all of these weapons, but it has been a minute since I’ve played early og h3 BTB so my memory not so up to par now. They all have their uses even if people can’t see it or not. The BTB kids utilize every weapon they can all the time. So there is no reason not to have BR starts imo. Don’t get me started on the shotty, sword, and hammer. Power weapons as well. Plasma pistol too. Combo? Need I say more. They all work for BTB pretty damn well in tons of situations.
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You are the guy sitting at the base with a BR shooting across the map for kills and not playing the objective.
Don’t be that guy.
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People are really willing to overlook every flaw of spawning with a BR. For the stalker rifle if I descope you before you kill me and I have a BR I’m going to win. More bullets means more descope opportunities. Also the stalker rifle overheats faster than the BR has to reload. The problem is with BR Spawn fan boys who can’t understand or don’t want to understand it’s flaws. It is a different way of playing. Saying that you don’t want map weapons to overpower you at spawn is you admitting the BR is able to perform extremely well even if the enemy has outplayed you and taken the risk to pick up a power weapon. Also saying I don’t know how to use a guns is ludicrous, if I give you any gun outside of a rocket or sniper (even if I give you a sniper in this situation you would probably lose) in most Halo games and we aren’t in a tight room or you didn’t see me first and kill me without me ever seeing you you stand no chance against a BR. Pretty simple as that.
Why can’t you just admit you like how it plays while admitting it does in fact play way different and does reduce the impact map weapons will have but you like that more? I get not wanting to be sniped at without easily being able to descope them or seeing someone in the distance and not being able to land enough shots to kill them easily before they make it to cover. Just ask for a different playlist.
Not sure why when a clearly large group of players like AR starts and another large group (the more verbal of the 2 groups although I’m not sure it’s any bigger than the AR group) you can’t just argue for a new playlist. Seriously why do you hate that people enjoy AR spawns and the sandbox play style that comes from it that you want to see it destroyed? The game is FTP and has cross play so there are plenty of people to have 2 playlists. And before you say that we can’t keep splitting the player base, no we can’t so only the most popular modes will get alternate weapon spawn loadout playlist.
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If you descope someone wielding a Stalker Rifle they have an entire half-second(which is an eternity when we are talking TTK) to readjust and kill you. They can get a faster TTK literally going for body shots. When you have a 3 shot perfect with 7 shots before an overheat that is still plenty of room for error, relatively speaking you have as much if not more to work with than a Halo 5 Magnum.
Moreover if the Stalker Rifle still fumbles it and loses to a BR that is the system working as intended, they had a significant advantage and failed to make effective use of it or you otherwise outplayed them in terms of aim and/or strafe. In that same scenario with AR starts you cannot do anything at meaningful range. You just die.
Killing players with no real risk to you is not interesting. You are not owed all the possible kills you can get with a power weapon because you won a single fight. Winning the initial fight for a power weapon sets you up for success, but doesn’t guarantee it. You fight over it because it makes your job easier. Its the possibility that you can get yourself out of a disadvantageous position through your own abilities that makes the game compelling.
But you’ve decided that that mere possibility of making a comeback makes using most other weapons irrelevant. This is quite simply not true, we have the entirety of the franchise to demonstrate this. Its bad enough when you all were making up ridiculous stories about how the BR/DMR/Magnum makes shotguns/swords useless, but now you’ve graduated to pretending even the bloody sniper rifle is barely an advantage.
Were once again back to: “well I can’t make use of these other weapons, that must mean no one else can either”
There is nothing to “admit” to given the precision “meta” doesn’t change when you spawn with auto weapons. All you’ve done is cede the ability to defend yourself in a variety of situations to a handful of players rather than allowing the whole team to participate.
Bad weapons are still bad. There is still no reason to pick up a Pulse Carbine or a Sidekick, or any other underpowered garbage. Even the AR makes most of those badly balanced close range weapons useless.
I don’t care for creating separate playlists for bad Auto start settings as it just leads to more absurd discussions like this one. I don’t know where all these dedicated Auto start BTB players are supposed to have come from given all the casual players who have been happily playing precision start BTB for a decade.
Its not as if 343 ever gave anyone the option to play BR start(or shoot even Commando start at this point) BTB(or Arena) in any flights. Hard for players to show there support for something that doesn’t currently exist, but that is typical manufactured consent from 343. Folks can’t contradict your design decisions if you never give them the ability to do so in the first place, but I digress.
Its largely just tiresome to deal with the same ignorant justifications and shallow complaints that have been floating around for a decade and needlessly fracturing of the playerbase.
And it all boils down to the fact that some Halo players care more about superficial variety than compelling gameplay. As long as you get to play with more pretty lights and colors it doesn’t actually matter if any of those weapons have anything meaningful to contribute to the sandbox. Its the idea that players avoiding bad weapons is a lesser concern than players actually gravitating towards good ones. All weapons need to be used no matter the cost. Its incredibly shallow.
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What if they made playlists that you can choose each mode similar to Modern Warfare 2019
They have it where you choose each mode and compile it but you can swap to the hardcore mode or Br start mode for easy access.
Lol, I feel like both ways are fine. Having a choice is always good though.
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I don’t know a single person who has happily played BTB with precision starts for any amount of time. In ever Halo all I would hear in game chat is “Dang BR again” or “the stupid DMR again”. You talk about forced coercion to a sandbox. We have been forced for YEARS to play with precision starts. Only a few years ago did MCC add auto starts. I’m willing to bet that playlist got more popular than Precision Weapon starts and that’s how we got to Infinite. But go on, ignorance is bliss and if you can’t see the merit of starting with a gun that is okay but not great in a lot of encounters.
Again you’re only argument is you want to start with a gun that is good if not great in all situations. Now how exactly do you balance a decent sized sandbox around that? You can’t, you’d have maybe 4 or 5 other weapons: rocket, sniper, Shotgun, sword. Outside of that plus maybe a couple of others the BR beats them or equally competes with every other weapon. You are literally asking to spawn with an OP weapon (compared to the usefulness of everything else) and then still somehow have a diverse sandbox. If that’s not your argument you are saying that the real fun in Halo comes down to BR spamming everyone to death with very little other factors to the game and yeah a tiny useful sandbox with a great starting weapon is a lot less fun then a decent starting weapon with a wide and still useful sandbox.
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Wouldn’t replace the AR and Pistol with any of the weapons they’ve put in besides the guns you’ve just listed anyway, it’s not exactly a great sandbox with half the covenant barracks in your spawn is it? For what it’s worth you might as well put the BR start in when you’re tripping over power weapons at the spawn. You can’t sit there and accuse others of being ignorant when you’re saying basically no one wants precision weapons which is far from the truth, I’ve played BTB for over 10 years, accumulated an army of BTB players as friends and none of them touch this BTB, you know why? AR start. That’s not exaggerating btw, I mean NONE of them, they’ve gone to ranked.
I’m going to tell you this, it’s preference. I’m sorry you’ve been forced to play with precision weapons throughout your time on Halo but guess what? H3 had a successful BTB count and Reach was still searchable 9 years later on the Legacy version. Don’t push false narratives because it works against what you want. It’s preference.
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Bring back BR start to BTB.
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I can tell you the exact opposite happened for everyone I know, they all stopped playing Halo entirely because of the poor balance around precision weapons and every game felt the exact same because one precision weapon tended to dominate most of the time (and the trash campaigns made by 343 but that had nothing to do with multiplayer). I literally had no one put of the dozens of people I knew who used to play Halo want to pick up Infinite. I would say BTB thrived despite the BR and DMR spawns not because of it. The fun Vehicles saved BTB and I will say Reach has some of the best in that regard. The precision weapon meta has been so stale and really choked the wide sandbox. I’m not arguing against people getting another playlist but some of these people won’t acknowledge the huge amount of players who love AR spawns and saying we are trash for not enjoying how BR spawns play. It’s different and both have there merit. I’ve seen too many of these posts that say no one wants AR starts or just to get rid of AR starts and it’s just not true.