H3 BR and CE pistol had lead times that helped with this. Range isn’t the problem, it’s hitscan ballistics.
3 Likes
We definitely don’t need BR Starts in BTB. 
When players spawn with powerful weapons then the weapons on map must be more powerful than the weapons you start off with because there no point in picking up a weak weapon that’s not stronger than the weapon you spawn with. Which is basically all of MCC since the weapons are all unbalanced against each other.
You can hold your own with the AR and basically the Gunfighter Magnum from Halo 5. All you have to do is get headshots with it and it absolutely destroys. 
1 Like
Every playlist needs BR starts, the AR/Sidekick starts games are just nonstop annoying randomness where you’re rewarded for being toxic
3 Likes
This idea always rears it’s ugly head when a BTB gets released, and it really is just an awful idea. There is no incentive for anyone to push weapons or hell to even leave the base when you have an A tier weapon in your hands that is good mid and long range. It turns the match into a campfest, if you want a BR go earn it.
2 Likes
This has never been true and will never be true. If you’re not trying to control power weapons and power ups in btb you’re simply doing your team a disservice. But with a BR you can fight the entire game and not be disadvantaged against the enemy team just because one or two of them got a BR and you only have an AR. You’re not twiddling your thumbs and watching teammates die in front of you while you can’t even help them.
This whole “go out and earn the right to play the game” mentality is bad meta mechanics.
6 Likes
did you play Reach when it was released on the MCC. The BTB in it was DMR starts, and the community outcry about it was so bad that they made a separate playlist. BR starts in BTB is a terrible idea. There usually is only 2 BR’s per team so if you’re getting lasered by one the maps are big enough to disengage find a weapon that can counter it, or find another avenue of attack. Giving everyone Br’s makes the game campy as evidenced by all the threads during Reach’s re-launch. The power is a weapon that needs to be controlled just like everything else so go control it.
1 Like
If I remember right the DMR’s won the poll that Postums put out on Twitter and the AR side died off after a while.
1 Like
You’re comparing BR starts in BTB to a game that didn’t even have the BR.
DMR starts in Reach BTB is bad because the DMR has significantly more range than the BR due to the greater range and accuracy of the weapon along with its ability to shred vehicles, which is something that Reach introduced and the other games did not suffer from with BR starts.
The DMR is just an awful Halo weapon in general, but a bad example of starting with precision weapons in BTB does not automatically mean that precision starts in BTB is a bad thing.
1 Like
The problem with reach dmr btb was that the dmr was hitscan and more accurate than the H3 BR. H3 BR btb plays just great.
3 Likes
Agreed. It’s very frustrating to spawn naked and helpless while you look for something to protect yourself with and can’t damage anyone you see because your weapons are too weak / short range. BR starts on big maps makes sense. I spend half the match looking for a ranged weapon and when I get one I’m so tense because I don’t want to lose it. It’s a shitty feeling. BR / AR start should please both camps and let players choose their style. I spend way too much time looking for weapon when I should just be focusing on the objective. It’s like you’re only playing half the game and the other half you’re looking / waiting for weapons. Not a good feeling.
1 Like
Think that’s why its called a ‘Sidekick’ … besides once you get used to it you can just destroy with it. Trust me, AR aint got nothing on dat sidekick.
1 Like
BR starts for BTB is a necessity.
4 Likes
Absolutely not. Nothing fun about having to try and sprint through the crucible of precision and power weapon fire every time I spawn in on BTB in order to get any decent use out of the pistol since the few BR/Commando spawns on the map are usually taken by the time you get to them. BR isn’t top gun in every situation anymore so BR starts wouldn’t be a bandaid for anything, it would only help those who can’t spend all day memorizing spawn locations on day one to have some fun.
1 Like
Feels like SMG starts on Burial Mounds. BR please, or at least the option. For the first time in a long time we have enough player for multiple playlists and have almost no playlists.
There were DMR starts in OG Reach BTB literally from day 1 the “outcry” for AR starts BTB in Reach MCC was drummed up by faulty memories and a complete failure to understand the bigger issues with Reach and Reach BTB in particular. But repeat a lie often enough and some people start believing it.
Putting that aside its complete nonsense to treat BR starts as if they will function the same as DMR starts from a different game especially when we already have decades of precedent regarding spawning with precision weapon whether its the CE Pistol or the BR.
“Campy” gameplay is the result of poor map and game design not spawning with a weapon that actually allows you to fight back off spawn. Unless you consider any sort of ranged engagement “camping” its straight up ahistorical to claim that precision starts created “campy” gameplay to the degree that it is borderline gaslighting.
I’m begging y’all to actually give reasons why Auto starts should be a thing in BTB instead of lying about how BTB worked in past games.
6 Likes
So true. The argument of “with BR’s you don’t pick up weaker weapons and you can’t explore the sandbox” is a dead narrative as well given you spawn with nothing but power weapons in front of you… Not really much exploring to be done.
I know so many BTB players that have played Halo every day for years and they’ve gone back to MCC already. I personally can’t even bring myself to search it anymore. It’s boring and tedious.
1 Like
Ditto, provided that Red Reticule Range for the BR is nerfed somewhat. The BR is very oppressive at long range as it is right now. Tone down the range a bit, then we have a good starting weapon for BTB (and some 4v4 social games for that matter).
It allows more map movement without getting beamed by a long range precision weapon. It give you more to look for on the map, if they swap the AR and BR no one will pick up the map AR or the commando or the pulse carbine and for the most part won’t pick up the stalker rifle or shock rifle either. Spawning with a long range precision negates a lot of map pick ups so unless you want to argue for a drastically reduced sandbox to make other guns “useful” in a precision weapon start then AR starts are perfect. I’d argue there needs to be am AR start playlist for comp. And to be honest I’d be totally fine with separate playlist with different starts but replacing AR starts with BR starts would just make me not want to play multiplayer again.
And before someone argues the BR isn’t even that good so it won’t be oppressive, yes it is and if it isn’t then why spawn with it? The AR is fun as heck to use too. It’s the first time in 20 years that an AR has been better than just ok. The AR isn’t supposed to be trash, for some reason past Halo games conditioned a lot of people to believe that the AR isn’t good nor should it be and that’s not the case anymore. Also the same people who want BR starts say that the AR is too good and is mapping them. Why would BR starts be any better?
As for the campy part it definitely does let people sit back near spawn and just kill those of us who move out to the middle of the map, it has been this way in every Halo with a precision weapon start so why would it be any different now? Not to mention it allows game modes with carriers like CTF to make a bit more daring escapes as the odds of someone having a BR are lower now so now if they are decent range away maybe they can cross that open walkway without being mapped by BR’s.
Also there are at least half a dozen BR’s if not more on every map. Just pick it up if you want to use it all the time.
2 Likes
Map movement has always been a part of precision start BTB, please bring in some points rather than boldfaced lies. Like you understand I’ve actually played Halo BTB right? But sure keep telling me that players weren’t moving in those matches…
And now you are telling me that they wouldn’t use the stupid powerful AR, A Commando which still has a ludicrously fast TTK even with the nerf, OHK headshot EMP firing Shock Rifle or a precise long range Stalker Rifle compared to the molasses slow BR with excessive recoil? Get Real, this is just more of the same rehashed “BR makes all weapons useless” that was a massive exaggeration literally every time it gets trotted out from 2001 to now. If spawning with a mediocre versatile weapon like the Infinite BR is enough to invalidate a good portion of the sandbox, your sandbox was trash to begin with.
Will people use a BR more often? Yes, versatile weapons get used more often, while more niche weapons have more niche uses. This also how starting weapons work as any starting weapon is always going to end up topping the charts in terms of use. The difference is whether other parts of the sandbox are actually worth something and if they are it shouldn’t matter whether you spawn with a versatile weapon or not.
The reason you spawn with the BR despite its flaws is that it is a versatile weapon that allows even fresh spawns to have a real chance to fight back regardless of the situation. This is vital in order to prevent lopsided snowball matches, especially in BTB, but I guess y’all would rather pretend that shooting fresh spawns with impunity is the pinnacle of Halo gameplay.
A strong AR can be fun to use, but that doesn’t take away from how important spawning with a proper utility weapon is. You can have a strong, fun to use AR and still spawn with a BR, the starting weapons always should have been AR/BR to begin with.
The issue people have with the AR in terms of balance is that it is too powerful relative to the amount of skill required to wield it which is virtually none. Whereas utility weapons like the BR are tempered by some degree of skill.
As for “camping” the only Halo game with a serious camping problem is Halo 4, otherwise it is down to poor map design. I fail to see how “daring” an escape can be when some or all players literally cannot hope to do anything to you past a certain distance.
But I can’t say that’s surprising coming from someone from who is freely admitting to blundering into high risk open areas and claim other players are “camping” when they shoot you to pieces.
Also if there are already so many BR’s on the map why not just spawn players with it cut out the middle man? Gotta love how this one gun is apparently a variety ruining monster, but as long as you place it on the map all of those supposed problems vanish into thin air. If you actually believed the BR is that bad, forget railing against BR starts, you ought to be advocating for its removal from the game entirely.
Its also actually even easier to just hang back and pick of fresh spawns from a distance when they literally can’t do anything, but sure, tell me more about how starting with a BR is actually worse for “camping.”
9 Likes
I can see we both just like different styles of play as you can never convince me that spawning with a BR is more fun than spawning with an AR and I’ll never change your mind either. I’d be down to have a separate play list for BTB with BR starts. I’d be interested to know which gets more players. I just feel like the AR gets no love on the forums or discord but I can’t recall ever meeting anyone online or in real life who liked spawning with a mid range precision weapon so I just want BR spawn people to know why people like AR spawns.
1 Like