Please lets have AR magnum starts. They bog down the gameplay and make vehicle much less effective in the gamemode. With AR MAG starts we can alos utilize accuracy weapons besides the BR. Heads up other weapons do exist we just dont use em as much because BR is a great all arounder and its what people are most comfortable with. Not saying people DON’T use em but if you had a choice of Mag or carbine/light rifle pretty sure you’d switch. Unless im just straight wrong which im fine with. But in all seriousness please have Mag starts.
> 2535429702231966;3:
> How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
i think the same bro.
The facts are that 343i designed this game to be AR/Pistol starts in every playlist and that the community forgers that made the maps, made them to be AR/Pistol starts. The only reason that 343i made BTB BR starts is because people raged about it before the playlist came out. I think that they should do a 2 week trial period where they put in AR/Pistol starts (Classic) and BR/AR starts (Pro) into rotation at the same time so that the players can get a good idea of the differences, and so that 343i can get data to see what option is better.
While they are at it they should remove team killing from all social playlists, and add Two Bomb Assault into BTB (Hey, a guy can dream right?)
Magnum/AR starts in BTB? Count me in on this! So many great BTB maps work so much better with the Magnum over the BR.
I dont understand why people complains about BR in BTB I just simply dont get it.
> 2535429702231966;3:
> How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
Wha- what? what is the logic for having that? it would be assault rifle noob combos for days.
> 2533274806857048;125:
> I don’t understand why people complains about BR in BTB I just simply don’t get it.
Have you read literally any posts supporting magnum starts? It should be very easy to understand why.
> 2533274806857048;125:
> I dont understand why people complains about BR in BTB I just simply dont get it.
It’s Red-Reticle-Range is too long, making a lot of the maps slow to a crawl because of cross-mapping. The creators of the maps were told to make them with AR/Pistol starts in mind and so having BR starts breaks map balance. Vehicles are a lot less effective because you can easily 4-shot them out or destroy their vehicle with team shot. It gets rid of a lot of variation in weapon choice on map. In a 2-on-1 encounter two BR users only need to 2 shots each, while two Pistol users need to have one of them hit 3, dragging out the encounter and allowing the solo player to come back if they are good enough. There is massive amounts of bullet magnetism on the BR, making it very easy to kill people at longer ranges, the Pistol doesn’t have this and rewards skillful aiming more.
I can’t think of any others right now.
> 2533274809217985;92:
> What’s funny is people once upon a time complained about magnum/AR starts, which is why they switched to BR.
Back then the weapons functioned differently than they do now. Hence the issue at hand currently. I’ve mentioned it many times, the h5 BR lays a differently role than the h2 and h3 versions did. Because it lacks in function as a good utility weapon, it doesn’t fit to be a starting weapon. The halo 2,3 and 4 BRs were starting weapons cuz they performed correctly to a utility weapon role. H5 doesn’t, and h5 wasn’t built around the BR in mind.
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> >
thanks man, I agree on the magnetism and I hate that a gunner can be killed that easily if you get into a bunch of people.
but not for all that I will complain saying that the game is broken
Ten & ten times again, yes.
The BR should be an available weapon on the map as a reward for those who locate it, pistol starts would limit the cross map gameplay that so many matches end up being, lets get in close for some real combat for once. I feel close range firefights is where the real skilled shine. Magnum and AR starts for everyone!
i m not a fan of the magnum and rifle setup. i wish i had dmr or a br in a couple of those longer maps.
There are a few truths to the description of how the H5BR plays in BTA (Big Team Arena) but the reasonings are mostly untrue or more about feeling over reality.
1a) Is it too easy to shoot a gunner out of an H5 'Hog? Yes.
1b) Is it because of too much magnetism or range? No. It is because there is 0 spread on the recoil kicking BR.
-
Is there too much magnetism on the H5BR? No. That would be the H2BR.
The H5BR’s recoil kick, which is reduced to nearly 0 when crouched, does indeed cause bullets to miss at those aiming for just the head as range increases within red reticle range, with sloppy shooting.
As well, H3 and H4’s BR have blooming spread associated with each bullet fired. The first bullet has nearly 0 spread, the 2nd has more, the 3rd has the most. This older, randomizing function of the BR, is what helped turret users live longer amongst the general populous. -
Is there too much range potential on the H5BR? No.
The M6 is 36.55/57.64m and the BR is 36.55/76.36m for red reticle assist range. The assisted range advantage of the H5BR is only available when scoping, which happens when not taking damage/
The only way to make the H5BR fire similar to a DMR/M6, is to crouch. One must lower their mobility to increase their hit % at range.
Note the M6 vs BR in H5, range, crouching and scoping;
-
Is there too much damage by the BR done to vehicles? Relatively, no.
This issue is more about being able to use the entire sandbox and not just the “default” ones. We can now put in higher armoured vehicles where our issue is now concentrated to “Gunners are fodder.”
Gunners should have a shield mod applied (faster recharging and/or a slight increase), or a pop-able/regenerating shield. This is more about adhering too much to the old ways, much like the default Splaser is not relevant in the context of the game’s speed. -
Does a slower BMS affect gameplay? Sure, that is why MLG upped Halo3’s for their use, and why Reach and H4 both had their BMS upped after their major TU’s AND why we have the fastest default BMS in a Halo yet.
But MLG didn’t just stop there, they upped damage by 10% so that BR was more consistent. -
Will H5 BTA maps play better with M6/AR starts instead of BR/AR? Well, that’s a conditional yes.
Designing maps for M6/AR in a BTB/BTA environment use is no excuse for why many of these maps are small in overall play area and restrict vehicles. That was the Forger’s choice when designing their map. By restricting vehicles in the first place, we’ve naturally come to our current position. It is on us to see that.
As for old vs new, recreating maps at a 1:1 scale and trying to recapture that old feeling just won’t work. Did nothing get learned about H2 and H3’s remakes? Only a select few can, by chance, transfer over with little change to geometry or scale. Of course Ragnorak didn’t play like Valhalla, flinch and the new long rifles saw to that… But why did Timberlands and Breakneck play so well in Reach? Because they were modified for the gameplay, properly.
Having noted all that;
Thanks to the refresh and the ability to put in any vehicle and weapon, gives me hope for new, more balanced meta-games in BTB. However, blaming 343i for not already making quality baked maps when we are the ones that have been populating BTB with maps since Halo3’s Forge, is a bit unfair.
Re-baking old classics won’t make good gameplay without the proper re-proportions. Good gameplay comes from learning, not adhering. The diverse maps are designed for more than just “default”, regardless.
… If we are to have M6/AR starts in BTB, it should be M6+Ammo/Recon AR.
> 2603643534597848;133:
> There are a few truths to the description of how the H5BR plays in BTA (Big Team Arena) but the reasonings are mostly untrue or more about feeling over reality.
>
> 1a) Is it too easy to shoot a gunner out of an H5 'Hog? Yes.
> 1b) Is it because of too much magnetism or range? No. It is because there is 0 spread on the recoil kicking BR.
>
> 2) Is there too much magnetism on the H5BR? No. That would be the H2BR.
> The H5BR’s recoil kick, which is reduced to nearly 0 when crouched, does indeed cause bullets to miss at those aiming for just the head as range increases within red reticle range, with sloppy shooting.
> As well, H3 and H4’s BR have blooming spread associated with each bullet fired. The first bullet has nearly 0 spread, the 2nd has more, the 3rd has the most. This older, randomizing function of the BR, is what helped turret users live longer amongst the general populous.
>
> 3) Is there too much range potential on the H5BR? No.
> The M6 is 36.55/57.64m and the BR is 36.55/76.36m for red reticle assist range. The assisted range advantage of the H5BR is only available when scoping, which happens when not taking damage/
> The only way to make the H5BR fire similar to a DMR/M6, is to crouch. One must lower their mobility to increase their hit % at range.
> Note the M6 vs BR in H5, range, crouching and scoping;
>
>
> 4) Is there too much damage by the BR done to vehicles? Relatively, no.
> This issue is more about being able to use the entire sandbox and not just the “default” ones. We can now put in higher armoured vehicles where our issue is now concentrated to “Gunners are fodder.”
> Gunners should have a shield mod applied (faster recharging and/or a slight increase), or a pop-able/regenerating shield. This is more about adhering too much to the old ways, much like the default Splaser is not relevant in the context of the game’s speed.
>
> 5) Does a slower BMS affect gameplay? Sure, that is why MLG upped Halo3’s for their use, and why Reach and H4 both had their BMS upped after their major TU’s AND why we have the fastest default BMS in a Halo yet.
> But MLG didn’t just stop there, they upped damage by 10% so that BR was more consistent.
>
> 6) Will H5 BTA maps play better with M6/AR starts instead of BR/AR? Well, that’s a conditional yes.
> Designing maps for M6/AR in a BTB/BTA environment use is no excuse for why many of these maps are small in overall play area and restrict vehicles. That was the Forger’s choice when designing their map. By restricting vehicles in the first place, we’ve naturally come to our current position. It is on us to see that.
> As for old vs new, recreating maps at a 1:1 scale and trying to recapture that old feeling just won’t work. Did nothing get learned about H2 and H3’s remakes? Only a select few can, by chance, transfer over with little change to geometry or scale. Of course Ragnorak didn’t play like Valhalla, flinch and the new long rifles saw to that… But why did Timberlands and Breakneck play so well in Reach? Because they were modified for the gameplay, properly.
>
> Having noted all that;
> Thanks to the refresh and the ability to put in any vehicle and weapon, gives me hope for new, more balanced meta-games in BTB. However, blaming 343i for not already making quality baked maps when we are the ones that have been populating BTB with maps since Halo3’s Forge, is a bit unfair.
> Re-baking old classics won’t make good gameplay without the proper re-proportions. Good gameplay comes from learning, not adhering. The diverse maps are designed for more than just “default”, regardless.
>
> … If we are to have M6/AR starts in BTB, it should be M6+Ammo/Recon AR.
How long did it take you to find all of this?
I’m not opposed to the idea of using REQ variants of weapons for starters, but what I’ve gotten from this post is that BTB needs some form of magnum starts, even if it’s using variants of the weapon, regardless of the issues that the magnum itself may present. And the reason for this is because in the end, if the maps, even the remakes, aren’t made for Halo 5, they will fail and because of the BR. This refresh has fixed the issues with Viking but it & Deadlock still suffer from BR starts. The points of stagnation, independent empowerment, and usefulness of Warthogs are still key factors of BTB and Halo 5’s sandbox and the reason the magnum is the go-to loadout weapon while he BR does some heavy damage to all three of those.
> 2535429702231966;3:
> How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
A plasma pistol is considered as a power weapon.If they do happen to do that so many people will EMP each other and it would be a mess.
Definitely NOT! I would be extremely disappointed if they made us start with the pistol on those giant maps…
> 2533274820445603;136:
> Definitely NOT! I would be extremely disappointed if they made us start with the pistol on those giant maps…
And the support for that statement is… where?
> 2533274883849234;134:
> > 2603643534597848;133:
> >
>
>
> How long did it take you to find all of this?
>
> I’m not opposed to the idea of using REQ variants of weapons for starters, but what I’ve gotten from this post is that BTB needs some form of magnum starts, even if it’s using variants of the weapon, regardless of the issues that the magnum itself may present. Because in the end, if the maps, even the remakes, aren’t made for Halo 5, they will fail. This refresh has fixed the issues with Viking but it & Deadlock still suffer from BR starts.
>
> The points of stagnation, independent empowerment, and usefulness of Warthogs are still key factors of BTB and Halo 5’s sandbox and the reason the magnum is the go-to loadout weapon while he BR does some heavy damage to all three of those.
I will say… “I’ll allow it.” 
And will add;
The BR starts, which could be replaced with Recon DMR starts, I believe are intended to the solve the issue of ammo, not potential range damage, for the spawning precision.
However, due to the more open structure of BTB maps for vehicle use and larger team killboxes, I believe the AR suffers a bit from range potential. Observe;
The Recon AR should be able to pepper vehicles for a BTB’s intentions, without damaging the CQB-Short ranged component, obviously, IMO. Unscoped, it’s no different than before, at range, it allows for more freedom of use, like it has in 4x4 Arena maps.
> 2603643534597848;138:
> > 2533274883849234;134:
> > > 2603643534597848;133:
> > >
> >
> >
> > How long did it take you to find all of this?
> >
> > I’m not opposed to the idea of using REQ variants of weapons for starters, but what I’ve gotten from this post is that BTB needs some form of magnum starts, even if it’s using variants of the weapon, regardless of the issues that the magnum itself may present. Because in the end, if the maps, even the remakes, aren’t made for Halo 5, they will fail. This refresh has fixed the issues with Viking but it & Deadlock still suffer from BR starts.
> >
> > The points of stagnation, independent empowerment, and usefulness of Warthogs are still key factors of BTB and Halo 5’s sandbox and the reason the magnum is the go-to loadout weapon while he BR does some heavy damage to all three of those.
>
>
> I will say… “I’ll allow it.”
>
> And will add;
> The BR starts, which could be replaced with Recon DMR starts, I believe are intended to the solve the issue of ammo, not potential range damage, for the spawning precision.
> However, due to the more open structure of BTB maps for vehicle use and larger team killboxes, I believe the AR suffers a bit from range potential. Observe;
>
> The Recon AR should be able to pepper vehicles for a BTB’s intentions, without damaging the CQB-Short ranged component, obviously, IMO. Unscoped, it’s no different than before, at range, it allows for more freedom of use, like it has in 4x4 Arena maps.
WHERE DO YOU PULL THESE OUT OF?!
Also, I’m not saying you’re wrong, it’s just that even if they are REQ variants, the magnum and AR would be better suited for BTB. Hell, I agree even a recon DMR would be better after using some of them on the new maps.
I like BR starts, but thats me