> - Subjective, and how is something easy to use a negative?
Because it lessens the focus on shooting skill. If getting kills with a BR is easy, then there will be a smaller skill gap in out playing your opponents with that weapon, and the slow BMS doesn’t help in that regard. Let’s talk about a 2v1 situation with a pistol vs a BR. With BR starts, the 2 players have to theoretically shoot a minimum of 2 bursts to kill an opponent, while the individual must land 8 bursts. With a pistol, the 2 players must shoot 3 times to kill a player while the individual must land 10. Although the individual still has a bigger deposit to overcome in a 2v1 situation (a side effect of 343’s emphasis on team shooting as the main form of teamwork), there is now a bigger room for error with the 2 players since they now must land 1 more shot each. And with how much harder the pistol is to use than the BR as a result of it’s smaller auto aim, the average TTK will become larger, allowing great players to beat ok players in bigger groups.
If you believe in an easier/more casual game, then that’s your prerogative; but if you’re trying to increase the overall skill gap for BTB, then pistol/AR starts are the way to go.
I still say with all the complaints of no BR starts in H5 to take them away in BTB probably wouldn’t be good. A good compromise is to bring back the slayer and slayer “pro” game types and have both. But as of now I still rather have the AR/BR starts for BTB.
> 2533274816788253;22:
> I still say with all the complaints of no BR starts in H5 to take them away in BTB probably wouldn’t be good. A good compromise is to bring back the slayer and slayer “pro” game types and have both. But as of now I still rather have the AR/BR starts for BTB.
At this point, it would suffice for us to simply have a trial period of magnum/AR starts in BTB to see how the general community reacts to the change, then conduct a poll in waypoint to find out if this change is worth keeping.
> 2724275667463138;20:
> > 2535429702231966;3:
> > How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
>
>
> Having Plasma Pistol starts would just make vehicles unusable. You’d just be instantly EMPed by 5 people.
Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps. It does help reading my entire comment before replying.
> 2535429702231966;24:
> > 2724275667463138;20:
> > > 2535429702231966;3:
> > > How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
> >
> >
> > Having Plasma Pistol starts would just make vehicles unusable. You’d just be instantly EMPed by 5 people.
>
>
> Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps. It does help reading my entire comment before replying.
It also helps to remain on topic regarding BTB weapon starts and nothing else of arena.
> 2533274968707582;21:
> > - Subjective, and how is something easy to use a negative?
>
>
> Because it lessens the focus on shooting skill. If getting kills with a BR is easy, then there will be a smaller skill gap in out playing your opponents with that weapon, and the slow BMS doesn’t help in that regard. Let’s talk about a 2v1 situation with a pistol vs a BR. With BR starts, the 2 players have to theoretically shoot a minimum of 2 bursts to kill an opponent, while the individual must land 8 bursts. With a pistol, the 2 players must shoot 3 times to kill a player while the individual must land 10. Although the individual still has a bigger deposit to overcome in a 2v1 situation (a side effect of 343’s emphasis on team shooting as the main form of teamwork), there is now a bigger room for error with the 2 players since they now must land 1 more shot each. And with how much harder the pistol is to use than the BR as a result of it’s smaller auto aim, the average TTK will become larger, allowing great players to beat ok players in bigger groups.
>
> If you believe in an easier/more casual game, then that’s your prerogative; but if you’re trying to increase the overall skill gap for BTB, then pistol/AR starts are the way to go.
Since the BR is easier to use and requires less shots to kill, wouldn’t that actually increase the skill gap because players need to be more accurate because missing 1 shot in a 1v1 fight costs more than in a magnum fight. Also in 2v1s, the 2 players will still have a high chance of killing the one player before he kills one of the two players. This situation hardly changes when it is magnum starts. However the 1v1 is where most gunfights take place and having people both using the BR will require more skill to land 4 shots than 5 with the magnum. Also with magnum starts in BTB would give players a massive advantage with a BR because the magnum is so much harder to use, limited range, and lack of aim assist. This means at range a BR player could easily out gun magnum users 2v1.
Also if I wanted an easier/more casual game, I would go play Arena where everyone just uses ARs 80% of the time, the definition of “SKILL”.
> 2533274968707582;25:
> > 2535429702231966;24:
> > > 2724275667463138;20:
> > > > 2535429702231966;3:
> > > > How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
> > >
> > >
> > > Having Plasma Pistol starts would just make vehicles unusable. You’d just be instantly EMPed by 5 people.
> >
> >
> > Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps. It does help reading my entire comment before replying.
>
>
> It also helps to remain on topic regarding BTB weapon starts and nothing else of arena.
How was I not on topic? Did I say 4v4? No. I was saying I would rather have 8v8 on Arena maps with AR/Plasma Pistol. I guess I should have been more specific to avoid confusion in a thread with BTB in the title.
Not that this isn’t a good idea or anything, but the Magnum is completely outclassed at range by the DMR, BR, Carbine, and Light Rifle; all of which are much easier to use even in close range. Starting you out with BR’s instead, means it’s no longer the end of the world if the other team controls the DMRs and Carbines on the map.
> 2533274797303698;14:
> > 2535458232742189;8:
> > > 2533274797303698;5:
> > > While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
> >
> >
> > In my oppinion, it should be your call to make or at least them giving a reason to why it’s Br starts instead of your magnum tested variants. As it was YOUR map that’s being put in maychmaking. Did you by any chance let them know that it was supposed to be played with magnum starts.
>
>
> Believe me, 343 knows that all the maps from the BTB MYM Contest are MAG/AR starts. This discussion has been going on for a while and while you might think we are just starting this discussion, it has already been ongoing for a while. The battle is now internally at 343 to allow a trial period for MAG/AR and all we can do now is show interest as a community in this change.
> 2535460843083983;28:
> Not that this isn’t a good idea or anything, but the Magnum is completely outclassed at range by the DMR, BR, Carbine, and Light Rifle; all of which are much easier to use even in close range. Starting you out with BR’s instead, means it’s no longer the end of the world if the other team controls the DMRs and Carbines on the map.
Could you imagine playing against a team that obtains BRs at the start of the match and being stuck in side of your base because you can’t fight back. Sounds like fun times to me.
> 2535429702231966;27:
> > 2533274968707582;25:
> > > 2535429702231966;24:
> > > > 2724275667463138;20:
> > > > > 2535429702231966;3:
> > > > > How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Having Plasma Pistol starts would just make vehicles unusable. You’d just be instantly EMPed by 5 people.
> > >
> > >
> > > Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps. It does help reading my entire comment before replying.
> >
> >
> > It also helps to remain on topic regarding BTB weapon starts and nothing else of arena.
>
>
> How was I not on topic? I didn’t say 4v4 did I? No. I was saying I would rather have 8v8 on Arena maps with AR/Plasma Pistol. I guess I should have been more specific to avoid confusion in a thread with BTB in the title.
OK, no wonder why the confusion started. Your original context in regards to AR/pp starts was referring to arena 4v4. Then your second comment in context was referring to BTB based on your distaste for AR/magnum starts on 8v8 within that 2nd post. That person who originally replied to you in that second post realized this and made the comment of how vehicles would be unusable because you’d be EMPed from literally anywhere. Suddenly, you again refer to 4v4 and say how there are no vehicles on arena maps. Next time, whenever we refer to arena maps, we are talking about 4v4 maps. 8v8 maps are BTB maps. Just because BTB is a part of the arena playlist, doesn’t mean people automatically group that gametype with everything else in the playlist, because it’s completely different in how it plays.
> 2533274968707582;31:
> > 2535429702231966;27:
> > > 2533274968707582;25:
> > > > 2535429702231966;24:
> > > > > 2724275667463138;20:
> > > > > > 2535429702231966;3:
> > > > > > How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Having Plasma Pistol starts would just make vehicles unusable. You’d just be instantly EMPed by 5 people.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps. It does help reading my entire comment before replying.
> > >
> > >
> > > It also helps to remain on topic regarding BTB weapon starts and nothing else of arena.
> >
> >
> > How was I not on topic? I didn’t say 4v4 did I? No. I was saying I would rather have 8v8 on Arena maps with AR/Plasma Pistol. I guess I should have been more specific to avoid confusion in a thread with BTB in the title.
>
>
> OK, no wonder why the confusion started. Your original context in regards to AR/pp starts was referring to arena 4v4. Then your second comment in context was referring to BTB based on your distaste for AR/magnum starts on 8v8 within that 2nd post. That person who originally replied to you in that second post realized this and made the comment of how vehicles would be unusable because you’d be EMPed from literally anywhere. Suddenly, you again refer to 4v4 and say how there are no vehicles on arena maps. Next time, whenever we refer to arena maps, we are talking about 4v4 maps. 8v8 maps are BTB maps. Just because BTB is a part of the arena playlist, doesn’t mean people automatically group that gametype with everything else in the playlist, because it’s completely different in how it plays.
Um you are really trying to tell me what I was saying? All my context was BTB, even though I didn’t say it directly, we are under the BTB thread, so if you are going to assume, you should first assume that. The whole misunderstanding is all on you, not my fault for you getting confused. My second post was a reply, thus not connected to my original post. I don’t see how you can be so confused. Also AR/Plasma Pistol and ARs pickups only 8v8 on Arena maps would be better than AR/Magnum 8v8 on BTB maps.
> 2533274883849234;33:
> > 2533275007449996;32:
> > oh god not this -Yoink- again…leave us BR fans alone!
>
>
> How about you leave us BTB fans alone? BTB is and always have been large scale, vehicular warfare. The BR all but ruins vehicle gameplay in Halo 5.
>
> And don’t you dare say go to Warzone. Because that is not the large-scale combat everyone wants and it does not favor vehicle combat at all.
i didnt say go to warzone…in fact im sure thats exactly what you would say to me if BTB was AR/pistol…BR doesnt ruin vehicle play…you are delusional…its hitscan that screws with vehicles not the BR
> 2535429702231966;34:
> > 2533274968707582;31:
> > > 2535429702231966;27:
> > > > 2533274968707582;25:
> > > > > 2535429702231966;24:
> > > > > > 2724275667463138;20:
> > > > > > > 2535429702231966;3:
> > > > > > > How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having Plasma Pistol starts would just make vehicles unusable. You’d just be instantly EMPed by 5 people.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps. It does help reading my entire comment before replying.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It also helps to remain on topic regarding BTB weapon starts and nothing else of arena.
> > >
> > >
> > > How was I not on topic? I didn’t say 4v4 did I? No. I was saying I would rather have 8v8 on Arena maps with AR/Plasma Pistol. I guess I should have been more specific to avoid confusion in a thread with BTB in the title.
> >
> >
> > OK, no wonder why the confusion started. Your original context in regards to AR/pp starts was referring to arena 4v4. Then your second comment in context was referring to BTB based on your distaste for AR/magnum starts on 8v8 within that 2nd post. That person who originally replied to you in that second post realized this and made the comment of how vehicles would be unusable because you’d be EMPed from literally anywhere. Suddenly, you again refer to 4v4 and say how there are no vehicles on arena maps. Next time, whenever we refer to arena maps, we are talking about 4v4 maps. 8v8 maps are BTB maps. Just because BTB is a part of the arena playlist, doesn’t mean people automatically group that gametype with everything else in the playlist, because it’s completely different in how it plays.
>
>
> Um you are really trying to tell me what I was saying? All my context was BTB, even though I didn’t say it directly, we are under the BTB thread, so if you are going to assume, you should first assume that. The whole misunderstanding is all on you, not my fault for you getting confused. My second post was a reply, thus not connected to my original post. I don’t see how you can be so confused. Also AR/Plasma Pistol and ARs pickups only 8v8 on Arena maps would be better than AR/Magnum 8v8 on BTB maps.
Then why exactly did you say “Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps” if everything you said was truly referring to BTB? Let’s clear that up first.
If you’re truly serious with AR/PP starts in BTB, then you better come up with a good explanation, because no one is going to agree with you on that part.
> 2533274883849234;33:
> > 2533275007449996;32:
> > oh god not this -Yoink- again…leave us BR fans alone!
>
>
> How about you leave us BTB fans alone? BTB is and always have been large scale, vehicular warfare. The BR all but ruins vehicle gameplay in Halo 5.
>
> And don’t you dare say go to Warzone. Because that is not the large-scale combat everyone wants and it does not favor vehicle combat at all.
>
> BTB is not the BR playlist so stop trying to make it into that.
I think you mean sprint ruins BTB and vehicle gameplay. Also Halo has always been BR starts since Halo 2 unless it was on small maps.
> 2533274968707582;37:
> > 2535429702231966;34:
> > > 2533274968707582;31:
> > > > 2535429702231966;27:
> > > > > 2533274968707582;25:
> > > > > > 2535429702231966;24:
> > > > > > > 2724275667463138;20:
> > > > > > > > 2535429702231966;3:
> > > > > > > > How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having Plasma Pistol starts would just make vehicles unusable. You’d just be instantly EMPed by 5 people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps. It does help reading my entire comment before replying.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It also helps to remain on topic regarding BTB weapon starts and nothing else of arena.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How was I not on topic? I didn’t say 4v4 did I? No. I was saying I would rather have 8v8 on Arena maps with AR/Plasma Pistol. I guess I should have been more specific to avoid confusion in a thread with BTB in the title.
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, no wonder why the confusion started. Your original context in regards to AR/pp starts was referring to arena 4v4. Then your second comment in context was referring to BTB based on your distaste for AR/magnum starts on 8v8 within that 2nd post. That person who originally replied to you in that second post realized this and made the comment of how vehicles would be unusable because you’d be EMPed from literally anywhere. Suddenly, you again refer to 4v4 and say how there are no vehicles on arena maps. Next time, whenever we refer to arena maps, we are talking about 4v4 maps. 8v8 maps are BTB maps. Just because BTB is a part of the arena playlist, doesn’t mean people automatically group that gametype with everything else in the playlist, because it’s completely different in how it plays.
> >
> >
> > Um you are really trying to tell me what I was saying? All my context was BTB, even though I didn’t say it directly, we are under the BTB thread, so if you are going to assume, you should first assume that. The whole misunderstanding is all on you, not my fault for you getting confused. My second post was a reply, thus not connected to my original post. I don’t see how you can be so confused. Also AR/Plasma Pistol and ARs pickups only 8v8 on Arena maps would be better than AR/Magnum 8v8 on BTB maps.
>
>
> Then why exactly did you say “Um, there are no vehicles on Arena maps” if everything you said was truly referring to BTB? Let’s clear that up first.
>
> If you’re truly serious with AR/PP starts in BTB, then you better come up with a good explanation, because no one is going to agree with you on that part.
Well it would only be a variant, but I would like something similar to Halo 2’s Team Duels which was only played on small/medium size maps. Halo 2 BTB Team Duels for reference below.
> 2535429702231966;38:
> > 2533274883849234;33:
> > > 2533275007449996;32:
> > > oh god not this -Yoink- again…leave us BR fans alone!
> >
> >
> > How about you leave us BTB fans alone? BTB is and always have been large scale, vehicular warfare. The BR all but ruins vehicle gameplay in Halo 5.
> >
> > And don’t you dare say go to Warzone. Because that is not the large-scale combat everyone wants and it does not favor vehicle combat at all.
> >
> > BTB is not the BR playlist so stop trying to make it into that.
>
>
> I think you mean sprint ruins BTB and vehicle gameplay. Also Halo has always been BR starts since Halo 2 unless it was on small maps.
Yea, and the h2 and h3 BR performed correctly in those games for their roles, where as h5s doesn’t as a starting weapon.
Also… Why the hell do you think 8v8 arena AR/pp starts is even remotely better than 8v8 AR/mag on btb? The spawns are already -Yoinked!- in FFA 6 players, and you think 8v8 would be suitable on arena maps?