How many of you want it. Let’s get this to the front page. I encourage forgers and BTB map creators to comment and create topics about this.
Edit: The basis for this topic can be sumed up in this 7 minute video Battle Rifle or Magnum Starts in BTB? (Halo 5 Design Talk) - YouTube
Magnum starts would be the logical thing to do, especially when these maps were tested and designed for magnum starts. Hint hint 343?
to go into detail on my issues with BR starts and why the magnum would suit it better as the starting weapon: the BR is to easy to use, it has to much magnetism to it and at long sight lines and so much open space it makes it to easy to lock down parts of a map or make an unnecessary dead zone. The magnum doesn’t have as much magnetism to it and is also limited in range, make it more challenging to create these dead zones. Having the BR as a pickup is fine as its much more limited in how often it’s used and is in a sense, a mini power weapon but one that can be countered much easier than a team of 8 all using it. Had the BR been designed like previous halo games or h5s magnum, I’d have no issue, but it just doesn’t fit well in this game as a good starting weapon.
A good example I have is guile time? The map that’s all grass and has satellites. Both teams are pretty much restricted to their side of the map due to the BR being able to hit consistently across the map where as a magnum start makes pushes happen more often and requires you to move up on the pushes to stop them, rather than sitting at the back of the map with the BR.
Solutions: go to magnum starts, or fix the sight lines big time to make the BR fit better, or make the BR harder to use at longer range (I.E. Reduce range and magnetism).
How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
I tried playing BTB & couldn’t get very far without my precious magnum.
While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
> 2533274797303698;5:
> While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
Your map the ones with the tanks? The caster and incineration cannon facing each other?
> 2533274923562209;6:
> > 2533274797303698;5:
> > While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
>
>
> Your map the ones with the tanks? The caster and incineration cannon facing each other?
Yep, that’s the map.
> 2533274797303698;5:
> While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
In my oppinion, it should be your call to make or at least them giving a reason to why it’s Br starts instead of your magnum tested variants. As it was YOUR map that’s being put in maychmaking. Did you by any chance let them know that it was supposed to be played with magnum starts.
I would prefer ar/magnum starts, but if 343 takes away br starts there would be rioting in the streets. Even with a lot of people voicing desire for magnum starts, we are still the vocal minority.
> 2535429702231966;3:
> How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
I wish I could down vote.
> 2535458232742189;8:
> > 2533274797303698;5:
> > While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
>
>
> In my oppinion, it should be your call to make or at least them giving a reason to why it’s Br starts instead of your magnum tested variants. As it was YOUR map that’s being put in maychmaking. Did you by any chance let them know that it was supposed to be played with magnum starts.
As stated by one of the forgers responsible for one original BTB map, all the BTB maps were designed around magnum/AR starts, even before halo 5’s release. 343 has the final say unfortunately.
> 2533274923562209;2:
> Magnum starts would be the logical thing to do, especially when these maps were tested and designed for magnum starts. Hint hint 343?
Not really. Most of the maps are better with BR starts because of the longer range gunfights and we know that the BR is better at range than the Magnum, so it would be illogical. Also they would have to increase the Map BR counts and other precision rifles on all the maps to compensate for the removal of BR starts.
> 2533274923562209;2:
> to go into detail on my issues with BR starts and why the magnum would suit it better as the starting weapon:
>
> - the BR is to easy to use,
> - it has to much magnetism to it
> - and at long sight lines and so much open space it makes it to easy to lock down parts of a map or make an unnecessary dead zone.
> - The magnum doesn’t have as much magnetism to it and is also limited in range, make it more challenging to create these dead zones.
> - Having the BR as a pickup is fine as its much more limited in how often it’s used and is in a sense,
> - a mini power weapon but one that can be countered much easier than a team of 8 all using it.
> - Had the BR been designed like previous halo games or h5s magnum, I’d have no issue, but it just doesn’t fit well in this game as a good starting weapon.
> 2533274923562209;2:
> A good example I have is guile time? The map that’s all grass and has satellites. Both teams are pretty much restricted to their side of the map due to the BR being able to hit consistently across the map where as a magnum start makes pushes happen more often and requires you to move up on the pushes to stop them, rather than sitting at the back of the map with the BR.
>
> Solutions: go to magnum starts, or fix the sight lines big time to make the BR fit better, or make the BR harder to use at longer range (I.E. Reduce range and magnetism).
As I said above, the BR allows people to be able to leave their spawn with a fighting chance. Having 1-2 people on one team with a BR would give them an advantage over a whole team with just magnums because they will be able to out shoot them at just medium ranges. As you said, the BR is a mini power weapon, so you even acknowledge that there is an advantage with the BR over the magnum, so why are you against BR starts so much? I honestly think you are so biased against BR starts that it is blinding your judgement of reality. I rather have someone sitting in their spawn shooting their BR, then a hole team sitting in their spawn that can’t move without getting outgunned and a fighting chance.
Solutions: Keep BR starts and unaltered, because it is the best option for BTB.
> 2533274968707582;10:
> > 2535458232742189;8:
> > > 2533274797303698;5:
> > > While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
> >
> >
> > In my oppinion, it should be your call to make or at least them giving a reason to why it’s Br starts instead of your magnum tested variants. As it was YOUR map that’s being put in maychmaking. Did you by any chance let them know that it was supposed to be played with magnum starts.
>
>
> As stated by one of the forgers responsible for one original BTB map, all the BTB maps were designed around magnum/AR starts, even before halo 5’s release. 343 has the final say unfortunately.
Not if we cause a rukus on their sub reddit and on the forums.
> 2533274803493024;9:
> I would prefer ar/magnum starts, but if 343 takes away br starts there would be rioting in the streets. Even with a lot of people voicing desire for magnum starts, we are still the vocal minority.
>
>
> > 2535429702231966;3:
> > How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
>
>
> I wish I could down vote.
8v8 with AR/Magnum starts on Arena maps would suck. AR/Plasma Pistols would somewhat fun. Just my opinion though.
> 2535458232742189;8:
> > 2533274797303698;5:
> > While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
>
>
> In my oppinion, it should be your call to make or at least them giving a reason to why it’s Br starts instead of your magnum tested variants. As it was YOUR map that’s being put in maychmaking. Did you by any chance let them know that it was supposed to be played with magnum starts.
Believe me, 343 knows that all the maps from the BTB MYM Contest are MAG/AR starts. This discussion has been going on for a while and while you might think we are just starting this discussion, it has already been ongoing for a while. The battle is now internally at 343 to allow a trial period for MAG/AR and all we can do now is show interest as a community in this change.
> 2535458232742189;12:
> > 2533274968707582;10:
> > > 2535458232742189;8:
> > > > 2533274797303698;5:
> > > > While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
> > >
> > >
> > > In my oppinion, it should be your call to make or at least them giving a reason to why it’s Br starts instead of your magnum tested variants. As it was YOUR map that’s being put in maychmaking. Did you by any chance let them know that it was supposed to be played with magnum starts.
> >
> >
> > As stated by one of the forgers responsible for one original BTB map, all the BTB maps were designed around magnum/AR starts, even before halo 5’s release. 343 has the final say unfortunately.
>
>
> Not if we cause a rukus on their sub reddit and on the forums. “Never say die!..”- Vegeta
More people really need to start proclaiming of a trial period with magnum/at starts for this to happen. I’m completely down for it honestly, even if it’s just for 2 weeks.
> 2533274797303698;14:
> > 2535458232742189;8:
> > > 2533274797303698;5:
> > > While I cant speak for every Forger, I can certainly speak for Dispelled. I had made the map for the BTB Meet Your Maker contest and the requirement was to design a BTB map with AR/MAG starts. And so I did, making sightlines a big longer to give a more “open concept” design. I have always played and tested the map with AR/MAG and matchmaking was the first time ever I played it with BR starts. Luckily it doesn’t completely ruin the gameplay on my map, some aren’t so lucky. It definitely plays better with MAGs rather then BRs as it encourages more vehicle play, but unfortunately that is not my call to make.
> >
> >
> > In my oppinion, it should be your call to make or at least them giving a reason to why it’s Br starts instead of your magnum tested variants. As it was YOUR map that’s being put in maychmaking. Did you by any chance let them know that it was supposed to be played with magnum starts.
>
>
> Believe me, 343 knows that all the maps from the BTB MYM Contest are MAG/AR starts. This discussion has been going on for a while and while you might think we are just starting this discussion, it has already been ongoing for a while. The battle is now internally at 343 to allow a trial period for MAG/AR and all we can do now is show interest as a community in this change.
Oh yeah I know it’s been an on going thing, but we as a community have to be as up most and vocal about these things to ruffle their feathers to get something going. Also I would like to hear why 343 keeps BR starts because coming from a veteran of the game, the Br is too easy to use in this game and I think the reason they left it as is so that weaker players won’t be completely destroyed by skilled teams that have rifle control and power weapon controll.
I think AR/MAG starts would be good. I always feel like it’s a cross map rifle war with the BRs.
Then everyone sits in their base with their BRs, and the only people that move out are the ones in vehicles.
> 2535429702231966;11:
> > 2533274923562209;2:
> > Magnum starts would be the logical thing to do, especially when these maps were tested and designed for magnum starts. Hint hint 343?
>
>
> Not really. Most of the maps are better with BR starts because of the longer range gunfights and we know that the BR is better at range than the Magnum, so it would be illogical. Also they would have to increase the Map BR counts and other precision rifles on all the maps to compensate for the removal of BR starts.
>
>
> > 2533274923562209;2:
> > to go into detail on my issues with BR starts and why the magnum would suit it better as the starting weapon:
> >
> > - the BR is to easy to use,
> > - it has to much magnetism to it
> > - and at long sight lines and so much open space it makes it to easy to lock down parts of a map or make an unnecessary dead zone.
> > - The magnum doesn’t have as much magnetism to it and is also limited in range, make it more challenging to create these dead zones.
> > - Having the BR as a pickup is fine as its much more limited in how often it’s used and is in a sense,
> > - a mini power weapon but one that can be countered much easier than a team of 8 all using it.
> > - Had the BR been designed like previous halo games or h5s magnum, I’d have no issue, but it just doesn’t fit well in this game as a good starting weapon.
>
>
>
> - Subjective, and how is something easy to use a negative?
> - Subjective.
> - Based on my experience it is harder to lock down areas when everyone is running BRs, and yes there are areas on the maps that become dead zones and forces people to play smart. You can easily break down map control or go through dead zones in things called vehicles, which spawn on both sides of the map.
> - One person with a BR would be able to easily control the map because BTB maps are very large and magnums are almost useless and very long ranges where the BR has an advantage. Dead zones would still be dead zones because people would obtain BRs, or other precision weapons. This will result in people not being able to get even close to the objective other than in a vehicle.
> - Limiting BRs will increase the advantage of those that have the BR, or other precision weapon. The only way to counter a BR would be with a power weapon or vehicle, but both spawn at a slow rate and would ultimately slow down the entire game.
> - 8 people with Magnums and 3 people with BRs on any BTB map, the team with the BRs will have more map control, shoot farther, and be able to defeat the other team with ease.
> - Previous games were not designed around the BR. Halo 2 was designed around the SMG, and Halo 3 was designed around the AR. The lack of awareness of your idea and how it actually effects gameplay is appalling.
> If everyone starts with AR/Magnums, then spawn traps will be harder to break against precision pickups, vehicles have a chance at becoming very good because drivers and passengers would be able to survive longer allowing even the best long range pistol players to struggle to shoot at gunners before they kill them, dead zones would increase in size because the magnum would be completely outclassed by precision weapons, and good teams will utterly dominate worse teams due to map control. Have you ever played Halo 3 standoff with out a BR? It is god awful. Even if you had a Magnum that was half decent, you would still get slaughtered so bad that you would be forced to stay in your base the whole game. If this is what you want, then so be it. Magnum starts and camping in bases to win the game. This utopia sounds amazing.
>
>
> > 2533274923562209;2:
> > A good example I have is guile time? The map that’s all grass and has satellites. Both teams are pretty much restricted to their side of the map due to the BR being able to hit consistently across the map where as a magnum start makes pushes happen more often and requires you to move up on the pushes to stop them, rather than sitting at the back of the map with the BR.
> >
> > Solutions: go to magnum starts, or fix the sight lines big time to make the BR fit better, or make the BR harder to use at longer range (I.E. Reduce range and magnetism).
>
>
> As I said above, the BR allows people to be able to leave their spawn with a fighting chance. Having 1-2 people on one team with a BR would give them an advantage over a whole team with just magnums because they will be able to out shoot them at just medium ranges. As you said, the BR is a mini power weapon, so you even acknowledge that there is an advantage with the BR over the magnum, so why are you against BR starts so much? I honestly think you are so biased against BR starts that it is blinding your judgement of reality. I rather have someone sitting in their spawn shooting their BR, then a hole team sitting in their spawn that can’t move without getting outgunned and a fighting chance.
>
> Solutions: Keep BR starts and unaltered, because it is the best option for BTB.
Well whenever you’re done pulling the “it’s subjective card” let me know. It’s subjective on preference for the starting weapon but there’s information that objectively shows h5s BR having more magnetism and functioning different than past versions. There’s also the fact that h5 was built with magnums as the utility weapon, then there’s even map creators saying the exact same thing, but I’m sure it’s all subjective and they have no idea what weapons work best for their own maps.
You also have my previous posts showing my stance and preferences so there’s that as well. To argue back on what I disagree with tho:
•weapons spawn very fast in btb, so having limited BR spawns isn’t an issue when there can easily be multiple snipers in play as is.
• there’s BR pickups in arena, funny enough the magnum is still the primary weapon and you don’t see teams of 4 using nothing but BRs. Not to mention it’s on the team if they lose control of the BR spawn just as it would be if they lost sniper spawn. It’s all about how you play the game and maintain control.
•BRs still create deadzones, having magnum starts incentizes you to move around more to stop enemy pushes where again, with a BR I could just sit in one spot all game and just keep players on the other side of the map while teammates do the same on other areas. With the BR being limited it forces forces different play on different parts of the map. One BR will not lockdown a whole map.
•vehicles would actually have more focus with magnum starts as well due to it having less magnetism and killing gunners +drivers would be harder. Something people have wanted fixed with vehicle play in h5 for a while, BR starts just continues the issue.
•h2 and h3 were designed around the BR, I wonder where you got your info from. The BR was the most used weapon in those games, not to mention bungie had to make h3 have BR starts cuz no one liked the AR starts. Kind of the same issue going on with h5 but with a different weapon, because again…h5s BR acts completely different than the previous versions.
so far the best reason you’ve given for BR starts is it gives players a better chance to fight back off spawn. Which is fine and one I’d agree to, however the magnum simply offers more positives that outweighs that. Vehicle play improves, pushes will occur more often, more focus will be put into controlling in map precision weapons.
You our either agree or disagree dude. I’m not going to argue with you if you’re going to pull the subjective card on me and then say it’s appalling that I’m vs BR starts. I have my reasons, you have yours, I disagree with yours.
I was going to make my own thread discussing this topic but I’ll opted for posting my thoughts here so that we don’t spam the forums with the same thread over and over again, as usual. Reddit has been going crazy with this topic and I joined in so I’m going to simply take what I posted there and share it here:
> 2535429702231966;3:
> How about AR and Plasma Pistols starts on Arena maps. I would be completely down for that.
Having Plasma Pistol starts would just make vehicles unusable. You’d just be instantly EMPed by 5 people.