BTB is the most boring thing I've ever played

Games Other Halo
1

I don’t see how anyone can enjoy something like this. Every match is exactly the same: Everyone gets in their vehicles, Someone’s lucky enough to get the wraith/banshee on each side of the map, one side’s wraith/banshee goes down, the remaining wraith/banshee has free reign for the rest of the game, killing every other vehicle and every other player instantaneously.

And let’s not forget how gigantic these maps are. If you don’t have sprint, then I hope you like walking across half the map just to get to the action. It’s basically a sniper’s paradise, you’re way too far away to see them at all, and chances are they’ve found some nook or cranny they’ve wedged themselves into using jetpack. You can never get to them, because you have to walk out in the open for a huge distance just to get in range, just asking to get sniped.

Another thing I hate about BTB is I have no idea where any weapons spawn(minus hemorrhage, since I know Blood Gulch). The maps are so huge that I never have the time nor the energy to stop fighting mid-game to search for weapons literal miles apart. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been sniped and raged over how I couldn’t counter it because I don’t know where the snipers spawn, so I can’t find one for myself. BTB isn’t a mode you can just pick up and play, you have to know where everything spawns on every map before you even think about playing it.

The nail in the coffin for BTB in my opinion is how NOTHING EVER HAPPENS. There’s a very high chance half or more of your/the enemy’s team will quit if they happen to be one kill behind, so the whole match devolves into nothing, where you either fruitlessly search for the remaining enemies, or you sit on top of your base, wondering why you’re there. On the off-chance enough people don’t quit per team, you get automatically slaughtered as soon as you step over the killzone of the enemy base, so you spend most of the game running back to that killzone after dying only to die again because someone still has his wraith. In most cases, the game doesn’t even conclude, it almost always times out, and it’s either a tie or one team completely dominates the other, which lost most of its members.

BTB is the most boring playlist in Reach, possibly surpassing the previous most boring playlist nominee, Infection. I just don’t see how anyone could ever find any enjoyment in this. Even Heavies is boring, because the vehicles die so easily, so I spend most of my time trying to git gud with the focus rifle, and there’s always something better than the focus rifle…

So what do you think? Do you share the same feelings about BTB as I do? If not, explain why you like it, because I can’t see a single positive aspect unless you have a wraith, banshee, or sniper rifle, in which case you enjoy being unstoppable. Thoughts?

2

You’re absolutely right, I’ve always felt the playlist is boring as well. The only reason I play it is to complete a daily/weekly challenge or if I’m on at a weird time and can’t find games in rumble pit. In addition to all the reasons you mentioned I also get tired of all the forge world maps as they’re usually the ones that get voted for. Oh and don’t forget the kids that betray you if god forbid you take the sniper or the vehicle they were hoping to drive off with. Only thing worse than BTB is griffball.

I barely play competitive anymore but when I do it’s rumble pit if I’m solo or multi team if I have friends on. Constant action and generally better connections than BTB too(though if Mexicans get host it can be rough but that’s true in any playlist). It’s a lot easier to get the good weapons on the smaller maps features in these playlists too.

3

I used to love BTB but it really depends on the maps and weapons available on the map.

Reach never had good maps for BTB in my opinion. Blood Gulch/Coagulation, Headlong and Sidewinder are often good maps that come to mind as well as Sandtrap but I believe the key to a good BTB map is having a balance of play space for vehicles as well as sections for infantry combat.

Blood Gulch/Coagulation has this and assuming you have a rifle (BR/DMR), you can counter snipers by hitting them with a burst should they see you. Vehicles are there to keep other vehicles occupied, with the rocket in the middle being a primary target. In the meantime, infantry should be flanking round through the caves to try and get to the other teams base and draw the enemy teams attention, allowing your team to push and gain more control of the map.

Headlong had good open area’s for the Banshee, Wraith, Warthogs and Ghosts to race around or gain quick access to enemy capture points (CTF) or to quickly gain access to the bomb site (Assault). Flanked by two buildings, these often made for some good infantry fights for to gain access to the construction site or get control of the sword.

You get the point, but yes, I do not think Reach’s BTB maps do a good job of this. Alot of them just feel way too open and the remake of Blood Gulch in Reach (forgot the name) is offset by how strong splash damage from vehicle weapons are, making it difficult to even survive long enough to return fire. Not saying infantry should beat vehicle but at least you had a chance to dodge and try something in older games. Reach more often than not you can miss by a fair margin but the splash damage will still insta kill the player, making it somewhat frustrating if you’re not in a vehicle compared to older games.

With a few balance tweaks, I think Reach’s BTB could have been better but BTB is not for everyone.

4

The TU update that 343 implemented really messed up the balance of the game. BTB is only available in a TU playlist so it is totally messed up. Seriously the first thing 343 did was mess up Halo Reach. They removed DLC playlist and then did this TU that only hardcore competitive players wanted. It was designed for the super sweaty small arena matches. I will never understand why it was attached to BTB also. If you look at the TU playlists vs the normal playlists you can see that the normal playlists are far more populated than any of the TU playlists. Heck all the TU playlists put together have a far lower population than that of the DLC playlist that they removed.

5

Hemorrage is part Blood Gulch and part Coagulation, not just Blood Gulch.

> 2574155679901782;3:
> You get the point, but yes, I do not think Reach’s BTB maps do a good job of this. Alot of them just feel way too open and the remake of Blood Gulch in Reach (forgot the name) is offset by how strong splash damage from vehicle weapons are, making it difficult to even survive long enough to return fire. Not saying infantry should beat vehicle but at least you had a chance to dodge and try something in older games. Reach more often than not you can miss by a fair margin but the splash damage will still insta kill the player, making it somewhat frustrating if you’re not in a vehicle compared to older games.

The Revenant hardly one-shot a player with splash damage and the Gauss turret can’t.

6

> 2533274849645270;4:
> The TU update that 343 implemented really messed up the balance of the game. BTB is only available in a TU playlist so it is totally messed up. Seriously the first thing 343 did was mess up Halo Reach. They removed DLC playlist and then did this TU that only hardcore competitive players wanted. It was designed for the super sweaty small arena matches. I will never understand why it was attached to BTB also. If you look at the TU playlists vs the normal playlists you can see that the normal playlists are far more populated than any of the TU playlists. Heck all the TU playlists put together have a far lower population than that of the DLC playlist that they removed.

I don’t see how you can blame 343 for Reach’s atrocious map design. BTB still has a fairly-sized population, so unbalanced matching due to lack of players is not the reason why players quit mid-game. Please elaborate on what you mean other than ‘it was 343’s fault.’

> 2533274964556797;5:
> Hemorrage is part Blood Gulch and part Coagulation, not just Blood Gulch.
>
>
> > 2574155679901782;3:
> > You get the point, but yes, I do not think Reach’s BTB maps do a good job of this. Alot of them just feel way too open and the remake of Blood Gulch in Reach (forgot the name) is offset by how strong splash damage from vehicle weapons are, making it difficult to even survive long enough to return fire. Not saying infantry should beat vehicle but at least you had a chance to dodge and try something in older games. Reach more often than not you can miss by a fair margin but the splash damage will still insta kill the player, making it somewhat frustrating if you’re not in a vehicle compared to older games.
>
> The Revenant hardly one-shot a player with splash damage and the Gauss turret can’t.

Hemorrhage doesn’t have the banshee basements in each base, and coagulation is technically a remaster, so it is really Blood Gulch. Also, James was referring to banshees and wraiths when it comes to splash damage, a banshee bomb could miss entirely and the splash damage would still kill the player. You can’t counter something like that if you don’t have vehicles of your own.

7

A point for the Banshee but the Halo 3 version can still kill you before you have a chance, there is no switch to plasma cannons.

> 2535449076192416;6:
> Hemorrhage doesn’t have the banshee basements in each base, and coagulation is technically a remaster, so it is really Blood Gulch. Also, James was referring to banshees and wraiths when it comes to splash damage, a banshee bomb could miss entirely and the splash damage would still kill the player. You can’t counter something like that if you don’t have vehicles of your own.

Blood Gulch doesn’t have water in the cave like Coagulation and Hemorrage but a rock instead.

There is a very noticeable empty space near blue base, it’s filled with rocks for both Coagulation and Hemorrage.

Hemorrage is just lacking the few bushes and dry trees you find on Blood Gulch.

The teleporter for red base is nowhere near Blood Gulch or Coagulation.

And the heavy weapon is a Plasma Launcher, being able to lock on any target but mostly any vehicle, like the Rocket Launcher in Halo 2.

8

I’ve always enjoyed reading people’s opinions on different aspects of Halo. I’ve always enjoyed BTB in Halo Reach. What I never enjoyed was getting trashed by a full team of 8 try hards who just controlled everything on the map. Those games were the worst. Other than that, they’re simply a blast to play

9

I really enjoy BTB in Reach. I play it second-most or third-most to other playlists. Unlike the OP and some others, I actually do like the Forge maps. Some of my favorite that come to mind include Asphalt, Delta Facility, and Rasu. I also really like Hemorrhage, Boneyard, and Spire. Though not perfect, I think the BTB lineup is pretty decent in my opinion. Heavies is the most fun because of the insane amount of firepower and vehicles around the map, along with the addition of bonus points (ie. for sprees and other medals).

If I had to rank my favorite BTB maps I would say:

  • Asphalt (Heavy)
  • Boneyard (Heavy)
  • Hemorrhage (not Heavy)

I am not a fan of a team of 8 inheritors though, trashing anything in front of them and having unbelievably tight map control. Also being betrayed for weapons by teammates really stinks too. I know it happens in all modes but in BTB it seems to happen much more frequently.

10

> 2533274931680884;9:
> I really enjoy BTB in Reach. I play it second-most or third-most to other playlists. Unlike the OP and some others, I actually do like the Forge maps. Some of my favorite that come to mind include Asphalt, Delta Facility, and Rasu. I also really like Hemorrhage, Boneyard, and Spire. Though not perfect, I think the BTB lineup is pretty decent in my opinion. Heavies is the most fun because of the insane amount of firepower and vehicles around the map, along with the addition of bonus points (ie. for sprees and other medals).
>
> If I had to rank my favorite BTB maps I would say:
> - Asphalt (Heavy)
> - Boneyard (Heavy)
> - Hemorrhage (not Heavy)
>
> I am not a fan of a team of 8 inheritors though, trashing anything in front of them and having unbelievably tight map control. Also being betrayed for weapons by teammates really stinks too. I know it happens in all modes but in BTB it seems to happen much more frequently.

I have to say, as someone who has played more than my fair share of halo over the years, that those three specific games you mention are only “worsted” by griffball in terms of least fun game types in Reach. Absolutely garbage games that aren’t even remotely enjoyable with the exception of hemorrhage non-heavy if you can obtain and maintain the sniper rifle.

The only good thing 343 did for Halo was the TU update, other than that they have IMHO destroyed the franchise. As an original player since CE I have zero interest in anything 343 has touched; the god-awful campaign of 4 turned me off completely to anything else Halo-related they could produce.

The only way I’d even consider playing BTB now is with a group of 7 friends that would go in and control the map like you mentioned to guarantee the win; other than that relying on randoms to get the W is wistful thinking and leads to nothing but frustration when they leave the game prematurely

11

I had several games where the inheritor team was steamrolled, sometimes they are just people that stick together like on Halo 3.

It’s the same with unbalanced teams (number wise, not skill) , the inheritor team can lose or barely win and it’s not super rare (still uncommon) .

12

> 2533274964556797;7:
> > 2535449076192416;6:
> >
>
> Blood Gulch doesn’t have water in the cave like Coagulation and Hemorrage but a rock instead.
>
> There is a very noticeable empty space near blue base, it’s filled with rocks for both Coagulation and Hemorrage.
>
> Hemorrage is just lacking the few bushes and dry trees you find on Blood Gulch.
>
> The teleporter for red base is nowhere near Blood Gulch or Coagulation.
>
> And the heavy weapon is a Plasma Launcher, being able to lock on any target but mostly any vehicle, like the Rocket Launcher in Halo 2.

Alright, if you want to nitpick…

13

> 2535449076192416;12:
> Alright, if you want to nitpick…

It’s noticeable, Blood Gulch barely have rocks next to Coagulation.

14

I almost never play BTB. The closest thing I play to
it is invasion. And even then I barely play it because of the banshee

15

I do enjoy it, though I like Team Slayer and Multi Team much better. I like ‘Wraith battles’ on Hemorrhage, trying to get good at using the Banshee, driving around in Warthogs. BTB Snipers… =]

The fact you don’t know the weapons on the maps is on you. I do think it’s harder to learn all spots than in e.g. Team Slayer, because A) There’s more, B) The map is larger, C) More people trying to get them. It took me a while, but I now know nearly all weapon spawns in BTB. If it’s too frustrating, just go into Forge Mode and fly around searching for them. I’d recommend you at least figure out where the spartan laser(s) and sniper rifle(s) are.

I do agree that BTB is troubled, it is more prone to one team getting the upper hand, and spawn killing the other. In a match vs. a stack of inheritors, you’ll know which way this is going to go. But interestingly, in more close matches, the tides can turn. I’ve been there, being spawn killed several times in a row by Wraith, Banshee, Warthog, etc. Yet we eventually kill them by DMR’s or Hijacking, we manage to get some vehicles and weapons, and we do the same to them for a while.
However yeah, a lot of times people will quit out, which is pretty frustrating.

Other than the likelihood of spawn killing, my biggest issues with BTB are; 1) The Banshee is absolutely OP (and it’s amazing for spawn killing). 2) The fact that players don’t know or care about the Spartan Laser. I think the Spartan Laser is very important, the team which controls it, destroys all vehicles on the other side. People should be looking to hunt the guy down which has it.

16

Have you played grifball recently?

17

> 2535436804841442;16:
> Have you played grifball recently?

Your feelings while playing grifball really depend on your motives for jumping into the playlist in the first place. If you’re there to farm credits, then you don’t really mind the lack of action. If you’re there to complete the objective, then have fun getting spawnkilled. Either way, that’s a different ballpark entirely.

18

I tried BTB, and it wasn’t pretty. My team was just void of any cooperation. We got one guy on a tank charging in with no support, a falcon with nobody in it, and everyone betraying each other constantly. Ran into a guy who betrayed me constantly for the sniper on Team Slayer as well, and I quit both games out of frustration. BTB can be fun, but only if your team is what it’s supposed to be: a team.

19

> 2535449076192416;6:
> > 2533274849645270;4:
> > The TU update that 343 implemented really messed up the balance of the game. BTB is only available in a TU playlist so it is totally messed up. Seriously the first thing 343 did was mess up Halo Reach. They removed DLC playlist and then did this TU that only hardcore competitive players wanted. It was designed for the super sweaty small arena matches. I will never understand why it was attached to BTB also. If you look at the TU playlists vs the normal playlists you can see that the normal playlists are far more populated than any of the TU playlists. Heck all the TU playlists put together have a far lower population than that of the DLC playlist that they removed.
>
>
>
> > I don’t see how you can blame 343 for Reach’s atrocious map design. BTB still has a fairly-sized population, so unbalanced matching due to lack of players is not the reason why players quit mid-game. Please elaborate on what you mean other than 'it was 343’s fault.

The weapons were altered by the TU update. DMR’s used to do extra damage on vehicles. Also the bloom would force people to pace their shots at long distance. The messed up weapon balancing totally changed how BTB played. Now players are cross mapped by the DMR and only power weapons can do anything against vehicles. The sniper in a nook with a jet pack issue was always an issue, but the vehicles issue was introduced by the TU update. Also it got harder to move around the map on foot with the new DMR. Trust me BTB played really differently pre TU.

20

> 2533274849645270;19:
> > 2535449076192416;6:
> > > 2533274849645270;4:
> > > The TU update that 343 implemented really messed up the balance of the game. BTB is only available in a TU playlist so it is totally messed up. Seriously the first thing 343 did was mess up Halo Reach. They removed DLC playlist and then did this TU that only hardcore competitive players wanted. It was designed for the super sweaty small arena matches. I will never understand why it was attached to BTB also. If you look at the TU playlists vs the normal playlists you can see that the normal playlists are far more populated than any of the TU playlists. Heck all the TU playlists put together have a far lower population than that of the DLC playlist that they removed.
> >
> >
> >
> > > I don’t see how you can blame 343 for Reach’s atrocious map design. BTB still has a fairly-sized population, so unbalanced matching due to lack of players is not the reason why players quit mid-game. Please elaborate on what you mean other than 'it was 343’s fault.
>
> The weapons were altered by the TU update. DMR’s used to do extra damage on vehicles. Also the bloom would force people to pace their shots at long distance. The messed up weapon balancing totally changed how BTB played. Now players are cross mapped by the DMR and only power weapons can do anything against vehicles. The sniper in a nook with a jet pack issue was always an issue, but the vehicles issue was introduced by the TU update. Also it got harder to move around the map on foot with the new DMR. Trust me BTB played really differently pre TU.

As I day one player I assure you this playlist has always been boring. The TU only served to improve gameplay…it’s a shame it wasn’t implemented in every playlist. I’m just returning to the game after a nearly one-year hiatus(I played a few times here and there but not even remotely close to how much I used to) and I wish 343 would not only make the TU settings mandatory across all playlists but remove bad and unpopular ones such as griffball, invasion, and BTB in order to bolster the population of other more enjoyable options. If they did that in addition to advertising the free DLC at startup the remaining playlists would be far better and much more fun to play. Sure there would still be laggy Mexicans but with the streamlined playlists maybe selecting “good connection” before searching would actually be effective for a change