BTB is now "Futuristic WWI".

What exactly does this title mean, you ask?

In World War I, the main style of combat that was performed was “trench warfare”. Essentially, this meant that each faction dug large, interconnecting pathways that were deeply built into the ground to provide cover for soldiers as they traversed the battlefield. The soldiers would then aim just slightly above the top part of the cover so only their rifles were peering over the cover to look for enemy soldiers while being relatively protected by the respective trench. Neither side of the conflict would dare go over their trenches, for they would enter “No Man’s Land”, which was a large, open space with no cover, and the soldiers that do walk in there get obliterated by dozens of bullets. The victims that made the unfortunate decision to go into NML didn’t stand a chance, dying a swift death.

So what does this have to do with Halo 4 (a futuristic FPS) and playlists such as Big Team Battle?

No longer are large games about fast, chaotic action, thanks to one feature built into this game.

If you think I’m talking about the DMR, you’re partially correct. It’s not necessarily the weapon’s fault that gameplay has to resort to this newly-founded cover-based system. Even Reach, which also had the DMR, did not even come close to having this large-scale issue in BTB games.

In past Halo games, when you were aiming through a scoped weapon, and you got shot while zoomed in, you would be put out of your scope and you would have to re-zoom in. This effectively suppresses enemies from longer ranges and forces them to come closer into the battlefield to attempt to get some points for their team.

I mention Halo 4’s DMR being part of, but not the MAIN problem, because, on larger maps, it benefits the most with this new feature revolving around not being de-scoped. It’s low recoil and high power per shot makes this weapon lethal at range, which is what it’s supposed to be, anyway. Because of this, walking on foot in large, open areas is basically asking for death, ala the “No Man’s Land” from the World War I reference from earlier before.

On a side note, the DMR, just like in Reach, wrecks light vehicles and the Banshee, and with a whole eight-man team shooting DMRs at a light vehicle, it will get taken out in seconds. Plus, with the fact that even when a Warthog gunner is shooting you and you still don’t get de-scoped when shot at, you have a higher chance of killing the gunner with a headshot than in previous Halos, defeating the purpose of the chaingun’s role of suppressing infantry units with a high volume of automatic fire.

On an even bigger side note I want to bring up here rather than making a new topic about this, is the fact that BTB in its current state is Infinity Slayer ONLY, which means that Ordnance can possibly give half the team Sniper Rifles, which also benefits from the lack of de-scoping and the massive damage it does to vehicles. Seeing as how you can call in power weapons for yourself in BTB, this is also a huge encourages for players to set up tents, get a fire started, roast some marshmallows and camp in mountainous areas, ala Ragnarok and Vortex.

TL:DR version: De-scoping when shot at needs to return to encourage map movement and faster-paced games.

Well when you’re shot, your view bounces and your shot is thrown off. It’s something, but not much.

But yeah, I think descoping needs to return. That way you can lay down suppressing fire to move from place to place, instead of having no hope of getting from one place to another.

This is a complaint I can actually get behind for once, instead of the constant straw-grasp nitpicking we usually see.

(Also, getting slowed down when shot is really starting to tick me off.)

> This is a complaint I can actually get behind for once, instead of the constant straw-grasp nitpicking we usually see.
>
> (Also, getting slowed down when shot is really starting to tick me off.)

Despite all of the drawbacks this game has, I still love it to death. That being said, I am more than willing to see most of these issues get resolved soon to further gain more enjoyment out of the multiplayer.

The Op must be a genius holy crap. I’ve somehow found another person that describes BTB as Trench warfare. When I look over Valhalla I see the bases as Underground bunkers, The rocks as trenches, The middle as a suicide trap or no mans land, and the Players on it are all veteran snipers. I don’t at all know what the hell makes it like this but it needs to be fixed because its unplayable right now.

> The Op must be a genius holy crap. I’ve somehow found another person that describes BTB as Trench warfare. When I look over Valhalla I see the bases as Underground bunkers, The rocks as trenches, The middle as a suicide trap or no mans land, and the Players on it are all veteran snipers. I don’t at all know what the hell makes it like this but it needs to be fixed because its unplayable right now.

It’s the fact that everyone spawns with a long-range weapon as opposed to either an assault rifle or battle rifle (you COULD still do that, but why should you?..), which were close or mid range weapons, respectively. This wouldn’t be so much of an issue if de-scoping returned, and MAYBE giving the DMR more recoil and/or a slower RoF (but de-scoping is a MAJOR priority in my eyes)

Op should be hired by 343i, because this man properly understands the game.

Also:

Warthog turret is too weak.

> Op should be hired by 343i, because this man properly understands the game.
>
> Also:
>
> Warthog turret is too weak.

I think it’s due to the slower RoF than in previous games, but it’s definantly more accurate. :T

You all better get used to seeing me post on the “De-Scoping” topics. Once again, i completely agree. De-Scoping needs to be brought back and we need a BTB playlist with CTF and normal team slayer. None of this Infinity crap.

Blame the lack of getting unscoped, and the fact that every BTB map outside of Meltdown is just a huge barren wasteland.

> You all better get used to seeing me post on the “De-Scoping” topics. Once again, i completely agree. De-Scoping needs to be brought back and we need a BTB playlist with CTF and normal team slayer. None of this Infinity crap.

^All of this. BTB SERIOUSLY needs Objective game modes, and CTF might be the only one due to the loss of Assault…

> <mark>Blame the lack of getting unscoped</mark>, and the fact that every BTB map outside of Meltdown is just a huge barren wasteland.

This WAS the main viewpoint of the topic :3

Also, off topic, but “Stahl” is my mom’s maiden name xD

I think De-scoping should return. As good as I am, I hate shooting at a sniper who misses and hitting them only to have them still pick me with a head shot before I kill them.

On top of that, ordinance needs to have less a chance to spawn snipers and launchers. They destroy vehicles, so BTB which was once somewhere to go to have big vehicle warfare has turned into large scale ground battles, and then you end up dieing to somebody across the map because everyone from the other team saw your foot for a second.

The only good maps in BTB I like are Exile, because there is the center path that allows for teams to advance without fear of being picked off, and meltdown because there are like 5 ways to traverse that map. But outside of them, it is all open areas with long sight lines. Something that without De-scoping becomes almost impossible to pass without hugging walls and taking cover on every little rock, box, tree, and anything else that comes your way.

I completely agree with everything OP is saying.

Halo 4 isn’t fun in its current state. I’m actually considering buying B.OPS2 to play until 343 gets their -Yoink- together.
This change would significantly increase playability, and hopefully put it back in the direction of the fast paced Yoink!-fest halo we all know and love.

I completely aggree with you however I know that descoping is something that 343i will most likely never implement because if I remember rightly one of the specialisations later on has the ability to stop flinch (making this problem worse!) so returning descoping would mean having a complete rethink of a specialisation aswell!

A possible fix?
Change the specialisation ability so that instead of less flinch you stayed in scope when shot like you do now as a default. next make descoping the standard.

Possible implications: everyone will use the ability and we are in the same place we are now, the ability will be unbalanced because it is so game changing, It is underpowered as you get so much flinch when shot, the BR may be -Yoinked!- in some way due to it’s lack of accuracy compared to the DMR.

The game is still really fun but staying scoped in + the slightly OP DMR make the flow and nature of games very different to what we know and love as halo fans, this is especially noticeable on Ragnarock as we have all played it before and remember how we could own in the banshee and the warthog just as much or better than we could with our standard weapons.

> re: Original Post

Yeah. I don’t agree that the game magically turned into ‘trench warfare,’ as if it wasn’t already in Halo 2,3, and Reach, but he does have a point that the lack of descoping nerfs suppression in general and warthogs in particular. The DMR is perfectly fine, but I think the BR and Assault rifle aren’t up to snuff to threaten the DMR, since there’s just too much of a no go zone where a guy with a DMR simply outshoots a guy with a BR.

The warthog chain gun is lacking, though because it’s hard to keep on target, not because it’s weak. If you know what you’re doing and lead your targets, the chaingun is a monster on infantry. The problem is just that there’s no real great way to get into the killzone, the infantry are guaranteed to have grenades and plasma pistols, and the DMRs are great sources of damage.

> (Also, getting slowed down when shot is really starting to tick me off.)

Same here. I’ll live, but I really don’t like it. A slow SPARTAN is a dead SPARTAN. All it does is benefit whoever shot first when they already have a benefit.

No it will undermine rogue. Also there is infinity slayer which doesn’t have vehicles and have small maps so the fight is close range, as well as other playlist. Also it makes no sense to fight close range on an open map were they are vehicles and aircraft. Though i agree that the warthog turret needs a buff and that having spartans move slow after getting shot doesn’t make sense.

> No it will undermine rogue. Also there is infinity slayer which doesn’t have vehicles and have small maps so the fight is close range, as well as other playlist. Also it makes no sense to fight close range on an open map were they are vehicles and aircraft. Though i agree that the warthog turret needs a buff and that having spartans move slow after getting shot doesn’t make sense.

So then have the no descoping feature only available on the Rogue specialization and the rest get descoped when shot. Also, this is a topic about BTB, not regular Infinity Slayer, so that comment of yours isn’t welcome here.

And you clearly missed the point regarding map movement. BTB, as of right now (ESPECIALLY on Ragnarok) is either cover to cover or base-to-base combat with barely any movement what-so-ever thanks to the lack of de-scoping on weapons with optics.

> > No it will undermine rogue. Also there is infinity slayer which doesn’t have vehicles and have small maps so the fight is close range, as well as other playlist. Also it makes no sense to fight close range on an open map were they are vehicles and aircraft. Though i agree that the warthog turret needs a buff and that having spartans move slow after getting shot doesn’t make sense.
>
> So then have the no descoping feature only available on the Rogue specialization and the rest get descoped when shot. Also, this is a topic about BTB, not regular Infinity Slayer, so that comment of yours isn’t welcome here.
>
> And you clearly missed the point regarding map movement. BTB, as of right now (ESPECIALLY on Ragnarok) is either cover to cover or base-to-base combat with barely any movement what-so-ever thanks to the lack of de-scoping on weapons with optics.

Then Rogue would become too OP. They are maps on BTB which have a lot of map movement like exile, vortex, ect…
I think if this feature would be implemented it will have to be on a seperate playlist.

> > (Also, getting slowed down when shot is really starting to tick me off.)
>
> Same here. I’ll live, but I really don’t like it. A slow SPARTAN is a dead SPARTAN. All it does is benefit whoever shot first when they already have a benefit.

I believe that was added to prevent Sprint-rushing. As in, someone sprinting at you can double-melee you before you can kill them with a gun.

I don’t know, that’s just what I’ve heard.