In regards to the Brute Spiker, the stats Bungie gave them makes very little sense (This applies to ALL the weapon stats Bungie released BTW) for a number of reasons. First off, the Brute Spiker weighs 7 kilograms when loaded, 6.4 kilograms when empty. For the moment let’s assume the magazine is weightless (right…). That’s 600 grams for 40 rounds, or 15 grams per spike. Remember these spikes are actually longer than the Spiker itself yet strangely only weigh 15 grams. From here, we know that the Spiker’s firing velocity is merely 76.2 metres per second, so that gives a Spiker round the kinetic energy of 43.5 J, which is roughly comparable to the kinetic energy delivered by an arrow fired by a bow (would a bow and arrow piece a Brute’s skin? Assuming it doesn’t (it doesn’t possesses a lot of KE, and it doesn’t deliver a lot of force) why would the Brutes field a weapon that doesn’t even penetrate their own skin?). To compare this to the Assault Rifle, it would take two entire magazines from the Brute Spiker to equal the kinetic energy delivered by a single Assault Rifle round (debatably 3-4 kilojoules, also working off from Bungie stats). Even worse, the Spiker’s maximum effective range is merely 40 meters.
Now note that these stats make no sense when considering the prior depictions of the Brute Spiker with the exception of Miranda’s death, where a Brute Spiker barely penetrated through her clothing and back (they stayed embedded into her back, with MUCH of the spike(s) still sticking out). Considering in Broken Circle Spiker rounds managed to break through Sangheili Shielding, armour and skin yet (depending on the source) Sangheili shielding and armour can withstand several Assault Rifle Rounds, pistol shots and SMG rounds, yet for some reason they can’t withstand something that’s orders of magnitude weaker in force of impact and kinetic energy?
This is a race whose technology is comparable to Humanity’s in 2525 (as noted by Maccabeus in 2525), a race of incredibly tough to kill warriors who can shrug off entire magazines of Assault Rifle fire and yet their primary weapon isn’t even effective against their own kind. Do you see why these stats make no sense whatsoever? Link to Bungie’s Stats on the Spiker
Look at this line from the Spiker’s description on that Bungie link seen above.
> This weapon resembles our technology more closely than it does the other weapons in the Covenant’s arsenal.
And yet yet it’s stats are incredibly inferior to our own, comparable to a Bow and Arrow, despite both Contact Harvest and above quote outright contradicting those stats.
> 2533274829733449;2:
> Bungie has never made any sense, I don’t know why people want them back. Halo 1 was just shooting down corridors, Halo Reach was bad, Destiny is bad.
Let’s not get into that argument here. For now, let’s sorely focus on the stats Bungie gave to this weapon (and many others. The Needler is just as bad, if not worse).
> 2533274829733449;2:
> Bungie has never made any sense, I don’t know why people want them back. Halo 1 was just shooting down corridors, Halo Reach was bad, Destiny is bad.
I strongly disagree with you, but everyone has their own opinions ofcourse.
> 2533274809220485;6:
> I think it’s something grim could clean up for us. Because don’t aren’t very consistent with what we see.
I wouldn’t mind Grim and 343 “revising” (ie. Retcon) these stats and replace them with new ones that make more sense in accordance to the setting. The Brute Spiker can pin soldiers into walls, destroy Yanme’e, shatter bones and break energy shielding yet with these stats it wouldn’t do anything to a branch, let alone kill a shielded/armoured target (sorry Miranda), or even another Brute for that matter considering how thick their skin is (Buck with a combat knife couldn’t do anything more than any a Brute Chieftain in Halo 3: ODST/New Blood, as it was the Chieftain falling on top of the Knife that killed it. There’s also cases of naked Brutes who shrug off AR fire to their torso and continue charging).
And note that this doesn’t just apply to the Brute Spiker. The Needler is arguably worse, with a slower velocity than the Brute Spiker and possibly less mass in the round (we don’t know the mass of the Spiker round as well. In this case I’m assuming the magazine is weightless (it’s 7 kilograms when loaded, 6.4 when empty), when realistically it’s not).
> 2533274809220485;6:
> I think it’s something grim could clean up for us. Because don’t aren’t very consistent with what we see.
I’d also like him to clarify all the UNSC weaponry to put them once and for all on more advanced level than modern weapons, without a doubt.
As for the Spiker, I had always though that part of their damage came from some kind of heat or toxicity aspect, though I obviously am just speculating. But that would help explain why they seemingly have to expand post firing and are so lightweight.
> 2533274926527272;8:
> > 2533274809220485;6:
> > I think it’s something grim could clean up for us. Because don’t aren’t very consistent with what we see.
>
>
> I’d also like him to clarify all the UNSC weaponry to put them once and for all on more advanced level than modern weapons, without a doubt.
>
> As for the Spiker, I had always though that part of their damage came from some kind of heat or toxicity aspect, though I obviously am just speculating. But that would help explain why they seemingly have to expand post firing and are so lightweight.
I figured that too, especially considering they come out white-hot then cool down. Also if you fire the Spiker in Reach for long periods of time the barrel starts lighting up red from the heat (which looked really cool BTW).
Bungie was just putting a bunch of cool stuff into the game, the weapon designers admitted they had no idea what they were doing in one of the vidocs. If they barely cared for realism on human guns, then alien ones are out of the question.
They also might’ve felt book writers made certain things overpowered, for instance I think Keyes blew a dude’s head up with a Plasma Pistol if I’m not mistaken, and I’m not sure how the game designers would feel about stuff like that.
> 2533274885748751;12:
> It doesn’t have to make sense.
> It’s a fictional world.
Yeah, and it has fictional stats that don’t correlate with the rest of the fiction. Several fans, such as myself like this “attention to detail” here. No need to belittle these sorts of details.
> 2533274926227685;1:
> In regards to the Brute Spiker, the stats Bungie gave them makes very little sense (This applies to ALL the weapon stats Bungie released BTW) for a number of reasons. First off, the Brute Spiker weighs 7 kilograms when loaded, 6.4 kilograms when empty. For the moment let’s assume the magazine is weightless (right…). That’s 600 grams for 40 rounds, or 15 grams per spike. Remember these spikes are actually longer than the Spiker itself yet strangely only weigh 15 grams. From here, we know that the Spiker’s firing velocity is merely 76.2 metres per second, so that gives a Spiker round the kinetic energy of 43.5 J, which is roughly comparable to the kinetic energy delivered by an arrow fired by a bow (would a bow and arrow piece a Brute’s skin? Assuming it doesn’t (it doesn’t possesses a lot of KE, and it doesn’t deliver a lot of force) why would the Brutes field a weapon that doesn’t even penetrate their own skin?). To compare this to the Assault Rifle, it would take two entire magazines from the Brute Spiker to equal the kinetic energy delivered by a single Assault Rifle round (debatably 3-4 kilojoules, also working off from Bungie stats). Even worse, the Spiker’s maximum effective range is merely 40 meters.
>
> Now note that these stats make no sense when considering the prior depictions of the Brute Spiker with the exception of Miranda’s death, where a Brute Spiker barely penetrated through her clothing and back (they stayed embedded into her back, with MUCH of the spike(s) still sticking out). Considering in Broken Circle Spiker rounds managed to break through Sangheili Shielding, armour and skin yet (depending on the source) Sangheili shielding and armour can withstand several Assault Rifle Rounds, pistol shots and SMG rounds, yet for some reason they can’t withstand something that’s orders of magnitude weaker in force of impact and kinetic energy?
>
> This is a race whose technology is comparable to Humanity’s in 2525 (as noted by Maccabeus in 2525), a race of incredibly tough to kill warriors who can shrug off entire magazines of Assault Rifle fire and yet their primary weapon isn’t even effective against their own kind. Do you see why these stats make no sense whatsoever?
> Link to Bungie’s Stats on the Spiker
Don’t forget this speaks of how bad the UNSC armor is since their troops die to Spiker rounds…
In fact this makes their 5mm even worse since Marines are essentially immune to it in Contact Harvest but later die to the Spiker…
(Assuming we take the stats at face value anyways)
> 2533274926227685;13:
> > 2533274885748751;12:
> > It doesn’t have to make sense.
> > It’s a fictional world.
>
>
> Yeah, and it has fictional stats that don’t correlate with the rest of the fiction. Several fans, such as myself like this “attention to detail” here. No need to belittle these sorts of details.
That’s what I like to call “reading too much into it.” Trying to make sense of a fictional universe that has, time and time again, proven contrary to itself, is pointless. Just accept the fiction’s imperfect, and it will never be perfect no matter how many times threads like these are made.
Again. Fictional universe doesn’t have to make sense. Also— Gameplay =/= Canon
> 2533274926527272;8:
> > 2533274809220485;6:
> > I think it’s something grim could clean up for us. Because don’t aren’t very consistent with what we see.
>
>
> I’d also like him to clarify all the UNSC weaponry to put them once and for all on more advanced level than modern weapons, without a doubt.
>
> As for the Spiker, I had always though that part of their damage came from some kind of heat or toxicity aspect, though I obviously am just speculating. But that would help explain why they seemingly have to expand post firing and are so lightweight.
With the UNSC weapon’s effective ranges you can at least excuse that as effective range against shielded Covenant rather than soft targets, but a lot of the other stuff doesn’t make a lot of sense.
> 2533274846307559;17:
> > 2533274926527272;8:
> > > 2533274809220485;6:
> > > I think it’s something grim could clean up for us. Because don’t aren’t very consistent with what we see.
> >
> >
> > I’d also like him to clarify all the UNSC weaponry to put them once and for all on more advanced level than modern weapons, without a doubt.
> >
> > As for the Spiker, I had always though that part of their damage came from some kind of heat or toxicity aspect, though I obviously am just speculating. But that would help explain why they seemingly have to expand post firing and are so lightweight.
>
>
> With the UNSC weapon’s effective ranges you can at least excuse that as effective range against shielded Covenant rather than soft targets but a lot of the other stuff doesn’t make a lot of sense.
No you don’t because as defined by the modern world according to the US military’s DoD terminology, "The maximum distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate." Even if you try to go that route (even though the definition contradicts you), you still run into the issue that all Grunts, some Jackals, essentially all Brutes prior to the Covenant Civil War, Hunters, Drones, and some Elites have no shields.
Edit: And the Insurrectionists don’t have any shields either and we know that the UNSC used the M7 against them (Contact Harvest).
I like to pretend all the stuff that doesn’t make sense about the Halo universe just isn’t there until Cannon Fodder or an Encyclopedia resolves it. It helps me get by as a canonite.
> 2533274926227685;1:
> In regards to the Brute Spiker, the stats Bungie gave them makes very little sense (This applies to ALL the weapon stats Bungie released BTW) for a number of reasons. First off, the Brute Spiker weighs 7 kilograms when loaded, 6.4 kilograms when empty. For the moment let’s assume the magazine is weightless (right…). That’s 600 grams for 40 rounds, or 15 grams per spike. Remember these spikes are actually longer than the Spiker itself yet strangely only weigh 15 grams. From here, we know that the Spiker’s firing velocity is merely 76.2 metres per second, so that gives a Spiker round the kinetic energy of 43.5 J, which is roughly comparable to the kinetic energy delivered by an arrow fired by a bow (would a bow and arrow piece a Brute’s skin? Assuming it doesn’t (it doesn’t possesses a lot of KE, and it doesn’t deliver a lot of force) why would the Brutes field a weapon that doesn’t even penetrate their own skin?). To compare this to the Assault Rifle, it would take two entire magazines from the Brute Spiker to equal the kinetic energy delivered by a single Assault Rifle round (debatably 3-4 kilojoules, also working off from Bungie stats). Even worse, the Spiker’s maximum effective range is merely 40 meters.
>
> Now note that these stats make no sense when considering the prior depictions of the Brute Spiker with the exception of Miranda’s death, where a Brute Spiker barely penetrated through her clothing and back (they stayed embedded into her back, with MUCH of the spike(s) still sticking out). Considering in Broken Circle Spiker rounds managed to break through Sangheili Shielding, armour and skin yet (depending on the source) Sangheili shielding and armour can withstand several Assault Rifle Rounds, pistol shots and SMG rounds, yet for some reason they can’t withstand something that’s orders of magnitude weaker in force of impact and kinetic energy?
>
> This is a race whose technology is comparable to Humanity’s in 2525 (as noted by Maccabeus in 2525), a race of incredibly tough to kill warriors who can shrug off entire magazines of Assault Rifle fire and yet their primary weapon isn’t even effective against their own kind. Do you see why these stats make no sense whatsoever?
> Link to Bungie’s Stats on the Spiker