Brutally honest feedback from a day one diehard!

I’ve been really busy since the flight so I never got a chance to post my feedback in the now locked feedback posts but now I gotta chance and I guess I’ll say what I’ve been feeling since. Also I was playing on Xbox series X.

UI/menu/customization:
A little cluttered I feel like. It wasn’t bad and it could be a lot better but I did get lost a few times on the menu. I would forget how I go to a certain screen and end up looking for it for a little bit but I would end up finding it. I’m not too much of a fan of the battle pass but I also don’t really have anything bad to say about it. It doesn’t feel like halo too much but it works and that’s what matters. I didn’t care for the in game store much either. It’s exactly just another one of those stereotypical micro transaction stores you see in pretty much every shooter game nowadays. I feel like that blends halo into the market rather than differentiating it like halo would do back in the day. Then again it was just cosmetic stuff so no game altering content to purchase which is a good thing. Hopefully they’ll be exclusive cosmetics, content only unlockable through rank, campaign, achievements, etc. Customization seems to be the best since reach as well which is a huge yes (minus the armor coatings). All the armor variations are going to be so much fun to grind through while trying to come up with the most “stick out” combinations. My biggest complaint, and this is something I feel INCREDIBLY strong about as my addiction to halo has never been completely satisfied what so ever since then, was there was a way to see “rank help” in the playlists area (which simply told you how competitive ranks were gonna work) and it described the ranking systems you saw introduced in halo reach, and now currently in halo 5. The placement ranks csr system… bronze-onyx/champion. This… this right here is a HUGE no from me. I strongly feel like halo desperately needs to go back to a skill based ranking system inter grating 1-50 ranks along with a overall base rank. Halo simply hasn’t had the same satisfaction, reward, and upmost love for ranks since halo 3… MCC kind of brought it back but since the introduction of seasons, ranked hasn’t been getting any work thus making those addictive feelings go away again. Thousands of players (me included) literally put everything away in pursuit of a 50/general. The rank was that addicting, it made you actually want to get better because a blatantly shown rank next to your name. This feeling in halo is desperately needed again and the placements ranks in my opinion do not give that satisfaction once so ever. Especially after obtaining Onyx/champ the same day as placement, making people just put the game away for a month till the next reset. In terms of overall base rank, It’s way less impressive seeing people with max rank simply for just playing a lot, rather than having actually progressing to get better at the game and achieving rank with skill as well. I’m sure that today in 2021 compared to 2004-2007, there’s technology nowadays to prevent many exploits… I would think. This alone is keeping my expectations for longevity somewhat low.

Overall gameplay/bot and arena:
My expectations have always been low in all honestly but I gotta say, this is easily 343s best work! Very smooth gameplay! Most weapons feel they way you think they would. The sandbox has a very large skill gap similar to halo 3s. A lot of people argue about sprint and I when I first used sprint in infinite, my first thought was “if halo 3 had sprint… it would be like this!”… which is a very good thing! The gameplay was paced like halo 3 with a splash of halo 5 movement mechanics. I never liked the look of the weapons in reach but in certain instances, like the AR, it actually looked very fitting in the environment. I found myself enjoying the game a lot more than I thought I would. I don’t care for bots nor the weapon drills as no halos before had them, however I feel there are very necessary to the game. I’ll never touch them but many others will and that’s a very welcoming thing that halo does indeed need at the moment. Slayer arena was very balanced in my opinion and this surprised me. The game can get very competitive and I can only imagine how far the sandbox will be pushed by skilled players with time. The BR felt the best since halo 2 in my book! We also get the strongest AR I’ve ever used in halo but it works well in this sandbox. The Sidekick felt really good to use as well! Grenades were as powerful as ever (maybe too powerful?). Some weapons do need some tweaking (worst gravity hammer so far), but overall they all worked very well. I definitely need to get used to the new weapons (skewer gave me trouble at first like most people) but they were definitely a welcome addition to the halo sandbox. That skewer needs to nail bodies against the wall too, just saying! Ive always felt indifferent in joining matches in progress, due to possibly being put on a losing team with no chance of a comeback ,but if there’s a no loss stat counted in joined matches, thens it’s a welcome thing in halo. Except for the fact that sometimes when you join a match currently, the game sounds like your playing in a tunnel or something. Sounds just didn’t work properly on some of those joined matches. When I first played the map Bazaar, I was thrown off from the halo feel in all honesty. The map screamed call of duty and I was left wondering, what does the level and everything in it have to do with halo?? That’s just a nitpick of mine but I had to mention it as it was still a decent map. I thought I wouldn’t like the AI that you play with in every match, but over time, I ended up liking the AI much more than I anticipated. It’s pretty much the custom announcers you have in halo 5 but done a lot better. I hope to see more use for the AI in release or in next flights as well. The use of equipment is limited, similar to halo 3s equipment and to me, it works very well in this halo sandbox! The opening pre game start screens featuring your team “showboating” I guess, was cringy and funny to me. Once again a nitpick of mine but I wanted to mention it.

Overall I do think that out of all of 343s work, in terms on main series games, this is definitely looking like their best work. There’s obviously still work to be done and I’m hoping to see certain areas change for the better (the ranking system for the love of chief!), but for the most part, infinite is shaping to be a very good halo game!

Best feedback i have seen so far i still beleive the game lacks something but i cannot put my finger yet on exactly what but very best halo i have seen so far, and yes ranked do needs a proper rework.

Superb feedback OP I agree with your first point, I got lost in the menus quite a bit but I think that’s to do with any new game really.

> 2533274807970710;1:
> The placement ranks csr system… bronze-onyx/champion. This… this right here is a HUGE no from me. I strongly feel like halo desperately needs to go back to a skill based ranking system inter grating 1-50 ranks along with a overall base rank. Halo simply hasn’t had the same satisfaction, reward, and upmost love for ranks since halo 3… MCC kind of brought it back but since the introduction of seasons, ranked hasn’t been getting any work thus making those addictive feelings go away again. Thousands of players (me included) literally put everything away in pursuit of a 50/general. The rank was that addicting, it made you actually want to get better because a blatantly shown rank next to your name.

Please no. Halo 3 ranks were broken.

  1. Hidden internal ranks. 1-75 but only a maximum of ‘50’ was shown. This wouldn’t stand up today.

  2. Rank locking. The ‘grind’ you remember fondly was a flaw in the original TrueSkill. You had to go on insane winning streaks to move up a rank. Or you could just start a new account and get your true rank really quickly (until that one rank locked as well). This is probably why we now have the seasonal resets.

  3. Boosting. As above - good players could quickly make a new account, get it up to ‘50’ quickly, and then sell it after it had rank locked.

TrueSkill2 can work out your rank in a handful of games. And it doesn’t matter how they show it; 1 to 50, bronze to onyx, grunt to spartan… it’s the same ranking system under the hood. I personally prefer the bronze to onyx… but it doesn’t matter. You are still being ranked by TrueSkill2.

The military ranks were cool… but they would be hard to sustain for a ten year service. In a couple of years everyone would be a five start general. And if you have such an fast and accurate ranking system why would you add an artificial grind to slow the process? Maybe the military ranks could be implemented into Clans somehow (have a seperate XP system for clan stuff).

The 1 -50 ranking system is pretty terrible for a number of reasons. Darwi pointed some out here but there are some more imprtant issues with that system.

The 1-50 system actively punished players and risks a low commitment to the game. If we look at splitgate for example, they launched with a h2-3 esque 1-50 system. Per those devs, it caused new players to actively get stomped by better players at an increased rate as the system was only going off the number of their rank. Since everyone started at 1, players would play 1 game and not play again given their first match experiance. This was further hightened by older/veteren players making smurf accounts to go through the ranking again and again given there was no reset system and the 1-50 continually allowed them to manipulate the matchmaking. It was so bad that 60% of their matches were blow out matches (according to the devs).

Outside of view on the ranking system, good points

> 2535406972669048;2:
> Best feedback i have seen so far i still beleive the game lacks something but i cannot put my finger yet on exactly what but very best halo i have seen so far, and yes ranked do needs a proper rework.

It is missing “something”. I agree! Have no idea what that is yet. It’s very hard to pinpoint at the moment without a full look at arena multiplayer.

> 2585548714655118;4:
> > 2533274807970710;1:
> > The placement ranks csr system… bronze-onyx/champion. This… this right here is a HUGE no from me. I strongly feel like halo desperately needs to go back to a skill based ranking system inter grating 1-50 ranks along with a overall base rank. Halo simply hasn’t had the same satisfaction, reward, and upmost love for ranks since halo 3… MCC kind of brought it back but since the introduction of seasons, ranked hasn’t been getting any work thus making those addictive feelings go away again. Thousands of players (me included) literally put everything away in pursuit of a 50/general. The rank was that addicting, it made you actually want to get better because a blatantly shown rank next to your name.
>
> Please no. Halo 3 ranks were broken.
>
> 1. Hidden internal ranks. 1-75 but only a maximum of ‘50’ was shown. This wouldn’t stand up today.
>
> 2. Rank locking. The ‘grind’ you remember fondly was a flaw in the original TrueSkill. You had to go on insane winning streaks to move up a rank. Or you could just start a new account and get your true rank really quickly (until that one rank locked as well). This is probably why we now have the seasonal resets.
>
> 3. Boosting. As above - good players could quickly make a new account, get it up to ‘50’ quickly, and then sell it after it had rank locked.

We’ve talked about this before Darwi . In terms in 1., Remember internal ranks were actually 1-70! As with the reason that was in halo 3 like that, I’m not too sure nor have I ever felt it was necessary. Just keep the ranks at what is shown.

in terms of 2., rank locking happened due to either winning then losing multiple times making adjustments to the hidden XP earned making it harder. People would be ranked locked because the ranks want you to win against much higher ranks. Not the same or even 1 up from you. Players simply wouldn’t be paired with much higher or even 2 up from them and that would happen sometimes. This still happens in today’s CSR and that problem seems to always be there which is why you see players locked today at diamond 5 or 6 for example for so long. As soon as you won a few matches against much higher players, the rank would actually go up, therefore breaking your lock somewhat quickly. The only win streaks you did have to worry about we’re around 48-50 which that’s where all the skill mattered at anyways.

in terms of 3., boosting literally still happens in today’s current ranking. Where there is a rank in anything, people will boost. People sold accounts in reach for having a top 2% in onyx. And people sold accounts in halo 5 for having top 50+ champion.

halo 3 ranks weren’t broken but not perfect and that goes to what I stated about how our technology should have far improved by 14-17 years since 1-50s introduction to make it work way better! And to stop all exploits. That goes for anything I would hope. With the military ranks, that’s just an xp rank… I would actually hope 343 has a whole new design of ranks entirely rather than just a number rank or something. Military ranks were cool but I think 343 could create a whole new set of ranks. I felt strongly about this for years simply cause I’ve seen thousands of veteran players leave for this reason. The game simply is not as addicting. Halo had many bragging rights to earn back in the day and this is one of the big ones that caused people to literally grind the game for years! Even still Today people are on halo 3 still tryna rank up in lone wolves. Because it’s just that overwhelmingly satisfying. Halo has many participation trophies now and that’s something I feel deeply they need to stray away from and go back to how it was because that’s what made players put in way more time in to the game to obtain something. I’ve never had the love of grinding out a game sense. Now Ill Get bored of halo after an hour or 2 where halo 2 and 3, I was able to do full 12 hour days and it feel like it was 2 hours.

the UI is definitely my biggest grievance with the flight. why are all the armor pieces/coatings/weapons organized into 1 horizontal line? it should be a menu or grid, makes it easier for everyone.

> 2533274807970710;7:
> We’ve talked about this before Darwi . In terms in 1., Remember internal ranks were actually 1-70! As with the reason that was in halo 3 like that, I’m not too sure nor have I ever felt it was necessary. Just keep the ranks at what is shown.

If a MMR of 1300 is ‘50’ (Diamond 3) then an MMR of 1950 (high Onyx) is ‘75’.

There is no hard cap for the maximum level in an Elo system.

> 2533274807970710;7:
> in terms of 2., rank locking happened due to either winning then losing multiple times making adjustments to the hidden XP earned making it harder. People would be ranked locked because the ranks want you to win against much higher ranks. Not the same or even 1 up from you. Players simply wouldn’t be paired with much higher or even 2 up from them and that would happen sometimes. This still happens in today’s CSR and that problem seems to always be there which is why you see players locked today at diamond 5 or 6 for example for so long. As soon as you won a few matches against much higher players, the rank would actually go up, therefore breaking your lock somewhat quickly. The only win streaks you did have to worry about we’re around 48-50 which that’s where all the skill mattered at anyways.

In Halo 3 the rank locking was due to the sigma (variance) value dropping. It is supposed to drop as the system becomes confident in your level… but if it drops too low you simply don’t get enough points from winning to go up… even when you start beating better opponents. Hence the grind that some people seem to remember so fondly.

That’s different from being skill-locked at a level because that is your skill level. Wins and losses against similar teams shouldn’t change your level very much… but you can work your way up if you are improving. And I guess that is the beauty of the seasonal resets… the game can increase your sigma level (making your ranking more volatile) and give you a few games against better / worse opponents… and quickly re-rank you. The down side is that your rank may swing a bit (hence they hide it) and the quality of your opponents may jump around.

> 2533274807970710;7:
> in terms of 3., boosting literally still happens in today’s current ranking. Where there is a rank in anything, people will boost. People sold accounts in reach for having a top 2% in onyx. And people sold accounts in halo 5 for having top 50+ champion.

Yep. Sad… but it’s not the same as a buying a rank-locked Halo 3 rank… where you could pretty much sit on your ‘50’ for life.

In Halo 5 your MMR would start to drop quite quickly… and once you lose a game or two you would quickly lose your pseudo-status. And the seasonal re-ranking is just around the corner to really sort you out.

I guess the real winners are those selling the accounts… they get repeat traffic every season…

> 2533274807970710;7:
> halo 3 ranks weren’t broken but not perfect and that goes to what I stated about how our technology should have far improved by 14-17 years since 1-50s introduction to make it work way better! And to stop all exploits.

Yep. Hopefully they have been continuing to fine tune TrueSkill. If we don’t get TrueSkill3 we can least hope for TrueSkill2.5

> 2533274807970710;7:
> That goes for anything I would hope. With the military ranks, that’s just an xp rank… I would actually hope 343 has a whole new design of ranks entirely rather than just a number rank or something. Military ranks were cool but I think 343 could create a whole new set of ranks.

I’d love to see the Military Ranks return somewhere… maybe as a separate XP ranking within Spartan Clans.

> 2533274807970710;7:
> I felt strongly about this for years simply cause I’ve seen thousands of veteran players leave for this reason. The game simply is not as addicting. Halo had many bragging rights to earn back in the day and this is one of the big ones that caused people to literally grind the game for years! Even still Today people are on halo 3 still tryna rank up in lone wolves. Because it’s just that overwhelmingly satisfying. Halo has many participation trophies now and that’s something I feel deeply they need to stray away from and go back to how it was because that’s what made players put in way more time in to the game to obtain something. I’ve never had the love of grinding out a game sense. Now Ill Get bored of halo after an hour or 2 where halo 2 and 3, I was able to do full 12 hour days and it feel like it was 2 hours.

I appreciate both the sense of satisfaction and of nostalgia.

But the skill rank is not the place for adding a level of grind. Not with the speed and accuracy of the modern ranking systems underneath.

Hopefully they will find something in the game that satisfies your itch. Maybe something along the lines of rewarding players for achieving and sustaining high skill ranks over a period of time / playlists.

darwi:

> If a MMR of 1300 is ‘50’ (Diamond 3) then an MMR of 1950 (high Onyx) is ‘75’.

remember you cannot compare this completely differently designed ranking systems. bungies literal graph on the 1-50 ranks really did only go up to 70 internally. MMR (matchmaking rating) is an internal skill rank judged only on performance for use in overall multiplayer being social, warzone, ranked playlists, hence why people in halo 5 and MCC complain alot about sweaty social games. halo 3 or 2 DID NOT have MMR. this also caused bad matching sometimes in ranked H5, where a good MMR player places platinum but will get paired with onyxs far better because of an equalish MMR. now with CSR (1000-2500+) Onyx will always start at 1500 but champ is determined at population in the placement. if no ones playing the playlist, you can hit champ as early as 1500-1600. if everyone is playing a playlist, you can hit champ as late as 2200. Comparing 1-50, which is always at a set value, to the current arena rank, which adjusts with population, it just doesn’t work at all. they do not come close to similarity. there not designed the same and the current ranks are very manipulatable once you very out how it works.

> In Halo 3 the rank locking was due to the sigma (variance) value dropping. It is supposed to drop as the system becomes confident in your level… but if it drops too low you simply don’t get enough points from winning to go up… even when you start beating better opponents. Hence the grind that some people seem to remember so fondly.
>
> That’s different from being skill-locked at a level because that is your skill level. Wins and losses against similar teams shouldn’t change your level very much… but you can work your way up if you are improving. And I guess that is the beauty of the seasonal resets… the game can increase your sigma level (making your ranking more volatile) and give you a few games against better / worse opponents… and quickly re-rank you. The down side is that your rank may swing a bit (hence they hide it) and the quality of your opponents may jump around.

yea this is a hard part cause both ranking systems can be flawed here… the halo 3 locking did happen cause that variance value could drop to its lowest, meaning the only to recover was to win ONLY against far higher ranked players which is why people really experienced lock at around 45+. this was a pain but it was satisfying to recover from. however i do agree, that there should be a better way to fix those variance values.
with the halo 5 placement matches, MMR really does the damage here. your first and last placement games will usually be the hardest cause of your last seasons placement. the ones in between will most of the time, be the easiest. either way, your more than likely going to get reranked around the same placing as last season cause of that but due to MMR at work, thats where your rank or opponents start jumping around, sometimes so far off. high ranks still place high even after 7 losses, low rank places low even after 9 wins, that MMR will end up pairing up those players at some point for an unfair rank match up.
I guess both need work but its probably hard to exactly get to those fixing points. totally agree that they both have the downsides now that I think of it.

> Yep. Sad… but it’s not the same as a buying a rank-locked Halo 3 rank… where you could pretty much sit on your ‘50’ for life.
>
> In Halo 5 your MMR would start to drop quite quickly… and once you lose a game or two you would quickly lose your pseudo-status. And the seasonal re-ranking is just around the corner to really sort you out.

Well you really cant lock a halo 3 50 either. I’ve seen players with 60+ plus wins on a 50, lose it after messing around in that playlist for 7 or so games. halo 3 ranks drop way faster than going up. but of course, if you never play in that playlist, that 50 wont go away either. halo 5 champs do go away if that population has surpassed that CSR mark but that onyx wont go so I guess theres that. but the waypoint ranks for those seasons never go away and some players do care about that. yea theres gotta be a way to prevent the boosting, selling accounts, paying people to rank up but players always find a way…

> But the skill rank is not the place for adding a level of grind. Not with the speed and accuracy of the modern ranking systems underneath.
>
> Hopefully they will find something in the game that satisfies your itch. Maybe something along the lines of rewarding players for achieving and sustaining high skill ranks over a period of time / playlists.

well if the internal ranking systems get improved upon, and maybe a more blatantly shown rank, then it could be fine with out ranking like 1-50. but theres not denying that 1-50s skill grind, however, did keep people playing for a VERY long, more than any game in the market at the time. halo differentiated itself and it was successful and it needs to do that again. all in all i hope whatever they do is the right move, and keeps us playing for a long time to come!

> 2533274953195665;8:
> the UI is definitely my biggest grievance with the flight. why are all the armor pieces/coatings/weapons organized into 1 horizontal line? it should be a menu or grid, makes it easier for everyone.

thats a good point!! I was bugged a little bit at how everything was put together like that.

> 2535461884091985;3:
> Superb feedback OP I agree with your first point, I got lost in the menus quite a bit but I think that’s to do with any new game really.

thank you brother! yea the menus took me a good while to get used to for sure haha