hammer sucks. it’s a stealth aoe weapon. It probably wouldn’t be so bad if not for desync, though that’s true of many problems. Kinda makes it hard to get a read on the situation in general. Even the disruptor pistol and needler can’t be well judged because of it.
Are you saying the CE shotgun has better range than the bulldog oh and by the way a shotgun is meant to put things on the ground and keep them there that’s the whole point of a shotgun oh and it was stated in another post it’s basically the human counter to the energy sword that’s why some people want it to return
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An interesting conversation we’ve got here.
While you are correct, I think that 20 years of a certain style of shotgun has probably allowed people to adapt to the classic shotgun, which is where the “bulldog is trash” “OG shotty way better” is coming from. Plus, they are very different styles of weapon, In my opinion. You could say that the Rocket Launcher is way better than the AR, but since they’re so different, it’s hard to compare them.
I think they are both great weapons, but I don’t think that one or the other is necessarily “better”.
Yeah it was awesome until you had to reload it! lmao
das flammenpistole??? das feuer gewehr??? das feuerwerfer??? in der tat mein freund. das feuer gewehr mussen zum halo zuruckkehren.
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Comaring the AR and Rocket Launcher is apples and steaks.
Comparing the Bulldog and Sword is apples and oranges.
Comparing the Bulldog and Classic Shotgun is apples and pears.
Neither is bad. But from an objective sense, ALL the bulldog lacks, is a 1SK. It does actually everything else better.
Higher RoF
Twice the range.
Reliable spread.
Way faster reload.
And you can shoot+melee JUST like the classic shotgun. Which, people basically always DO melee-confirm, because you cannot always be sure every pellet hit unless you’re in punch range. But since you’re in punch range, you should punch anyway because you need to secure the kill.
So, all it can’t do is bulltrue with one squeeze. Which allows the sword to exist where the classic shotgun absolutely denied it.
So it IS better at its intended role and is better for the sandbox… But the classic shotgun SHOULD return, as a power weapon spawn that spawns in place of the hammer or sword - because it IS that powerful and performs in the same range class.
And, technically, it would allow the bulldog and classic shotgun to duel. Which would be… REALLY interesting. They would probably come out just about even when fighting each other, one on one.
Personal favorite is Halo 2’s shotgun. Cut the ammo in half and you have my favorite version of the classic shotgun by a country mile.
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I don’t see why the classic shotgun would need to be considered a power weapon. As you said, the Bulldog is actually better in every way it just doesn’t have one shot kill potential in the Bull True range. That’s a very small range in which the Bulldog still capitalizes on with a one tap one slap combo.
The classic shotgun’s function was to dominate melee range encounters, but this doesn’t mean you have the power of the Energy Sword’s lunge and increased speed(?) or the Gravity Hammer’s AOE multi-kill potential.
At the end of the day, I just think more variation is needed. The Bulldog is fine, however it performs quite similarly to the Heatwave where as the M45 Shotgun would be more unique.
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'Cause it’s better than the sword. Straight up, it has ALWAYS had more range and was always a hard counter - so it was strictly superior. You can NOT - in Infinite’s sandbox, put a 1SK body-hit weapon on anything but a power weapon pad. The only exception is the shock rifle because it requires deliberate and perfect aim to get the 1SK out of it.
Like the sword.
You strictly do, at further range. If the shotgun came back the way folks asked, it’d be strictly superior to the sword and could NOT EXIST at the same time with it for balancing.
If one team gets the sword AND the shotgun, there is nowhere safe in the map. You can not allow 1 SK melee range weapon to exist in more than one spot in a 4v4, it is horrid for balance and snowballs one team entirely.
They’re honestly very different. Their damage is quite similar but the Heatwave has far longer range but requires shot-lead, and it can bankshot. Perfect aim and placement considered, it’s strictly superior in every way but its long reload time. But it is also far, far less forgiving than the Bulldog, which allows far far far more room for error.
They really play quite differently despite filling a similar niche. A Gold is gonna’ use a Bulldog and Heatwave the same, an Onyx will use them very differently.
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Every weapon is a close range weapon if you use it at close range lol
If you mean close range only then the sword and hammer count more or less, and all the tier 2 weapons are optimized at close-mid range with pretty much all of them having either a melee bonus or a good shot+melee combo. The disruptor is one of the most slept on melee range weapons in the game, it’s the new plasma rifle.
I wouldn’t mind more options being introduced in the future, but the game has a really viable sandbox already, especially if you like fighting in melee range.
OMG.
I now know what one of my first scripts for Forge has to be.
CQC Fiesta.
You spawn with one of sword, hammer, bulldog, and (if available) classic shottie.
Maybe the golf club if available!
Thrusters and dynamo grenades for everyone 
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The master chief is a super soldier it didn’t take them that long to reload the weapon
Include the Heatwave, it deserves a spot! Definitely do this. I can’t wait to try it.
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with the swing of the hammer moving slower than evolution, id say yes
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hope they bring back dual wielding if the smg comes back
So you like crappier ammo capacity and less damaging weapons
The Bulldog is crap it has less ammo and lower damage I’m so glad this isn’t the one we had in Halo CE when going through the library
So if the Shock Rifle is an exception, then why can the Shotgun also not be an exception? All you have to do is tune the shotgun to only be a one shot kill in melee range. The slow rate of fire of the M45 Shotgun puts it as a 2 shot kill in most ranges, TTK would be ~1.00s which is SMG territory (only less range). The only extra function necessary would be a one shot kill in melee range which essentially means you will never lose to a melee encounter.
The Sword can have a speed boost and increased range with it’s lunge if the Shotgun was done properly.
Halo 3 had several maps that had 2 CQC weapons (shotgun, gravity hammer, energy sword). One of the favourite maps of all time, Guardian, had the Shotgun and Gravity Hammer.
You can have any combination of weapons on a map as long as it works with the map design. Besides, acquiring both CQC weapons likely means your team has map control, which is what arena maps are really about.
EDIT:
Irregardless, if your arguement is that the amount of CQC weapons on the map should be limited, you do realize that Tier 2 weapons are controlled spawn right? They are literally the only weapons in the game that limit how many there can be on the map at once.
I was never arguing that the two weapons were the same, only that the classic shotgun is more unique than the Bulldog in comparison to the Heatwave.
The Heatwave is not strictly superior in every way. The Bulldog has a faster TTK and fire rate, which is another reason there is more room for error.
Let’s just compare the classic Shotgun to the Bulldog first to address the idea of one being more powerful than the other.
The Classic Shotgun is a one shot kill (if this was tuned for melee range it would be exactly like the Bulldog without the need to melee - which would be it’s function), however it is pump-action with a slower rate of fire, so a 2 shot TTK would be ~1.00s.
The Bulldog is a 2 shot kill, ~0.65s TTK, basically right in the middle of the Classic Shotgun. So the Bulldog is superior to the M45 Shotgun outside of melee range and when encountering multiple enemies. The ONLY thing the M45 Shotgun has over the bulldog is one shot kill in melee range, which makes it a good counter to the Energy Sword (or standard melee attacks) but otherwise the Clasaic Shotgun is inferior to the Bulldog. Point being, if it is properly tuned, it does not need to be a power weapon.
I just really have to say this statement is wild, you are literally safe from these weapons anywhere outside of a 10 foot radius of the player in possession of these weapons lol.
A body shot at point blank takes no more skill than a punch so you must be joking with that question.
You want the sword to be STRONGER!? It’s never BEEN this strong are you CRAZY!?
Yeah! And it was bad! Wow! Give me a fourth bad ta-
Of COURSE I know that, how many times do I have to say I’m a comp player?
You might just be a classic shotgun sycophant.
This is a stupid hypothetical. A 1SK capable weapon doesn’t have a time to kill. It’s 0.00. You do not measure from non-optimal ranges. Do you have any idea how these things are handled?
It’s a power weapon if it “counters” the sword, because that means it’s better than the sword. If it’s better than the sword at the sword’s job, then it SHOULD NOT be on the same map. Imagine giving one team a better sword and a sword. But you don’t think that’s a problem, with your Guardian example.
Competitive players do not want that. I do NOT want THAT.
Okay, so, you just don’t know anything about balance.
Go back to playing infection.
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One thing I do want to add is that because of the grapple, a sword lunge can technically be achieved from much greater distances, making it even harder to kill a sword user with 2 Bulldog shots.
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The redefinition of the Bulltrue medal in Halo Infinite should tell you everything you need to know about what’s wrong with the Bulldog-Sword interaction.
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A point blank shot requires strategy, the Shock Rifle can one shot an enemy at any spot on the map no matter what distance. If you don’t want to get one shot by a Shotgun, simply avoid standing point blank next to a guy with a Shotgun.
No, I’m simply pointing out areas in which the Sword can excel in comparison to the Shotgun.
Halo 3 is bad?
Apologies, mighty comp player.
Then what is your grief with the Shotgun being a Tier 2 weapon, your whole argument was based on more than one CQC being on a map is a bad thing? Well Tier 2 is the only controlled spawn category in the game.
Ok, then going back to your Shock Rifle argument is it a stupid hypothetical to consider a suboptimal TTK for this weapon? After all its a 1SK capable weapon I guess it’s TTK is 0.00 and nothing else matters?
No, it’s a fact that the Shock Rifle is a 3 shot kill without headshots and that’s a slow TTK, just like it’s a fact that the Shotgun is not a 1SK outside of point blank / bull true range.
You’re the one trying to claim that the other team having 2 CQC weapons means NOWHERE (your words not mine) is safe.