Hey everyone. Let’s assume for a moment that neither the AR or BR is the default spawn weapon in H5. These weapons are both spawned on the map for players to pick up and are intended to be around the same level of power and usefulness. How do we balance these two weapons? The BR is unlikely to change much, so maybe adjusting the AR is a better route to take. In my opinion, making the rifle as accurate as the Halo 3 version, but with a larger mag capacity as well as a damage boost would be a good start. Maybe 42-48 rounds? What do you all think?
An AR with more power than the usual AR (but less powerful than, say, a SAW) that only spawns on the map would be just fine for me.
Plus, it would get rid of AR starts for good shudder
The AR in Halo 3 wasn’t accurate, the spread was quite large and needed pacing to remain inside the reticle.
The AR in Reach was better as the bloom reticle indicated where the spread rate was going to be, so you knew when you needed to pace or not.
The AR in Halo 4 was lame as the bloom and spread rate never stretched beyond the distance of the reticle size in Halo 3, making bloom pointless.
> The AR in Halo 3 wasn’t accurate, the spread was quite large and needed pacing to remain inside the reticle.
>
> The AR in Reach was better as the bloom reticle indicated where the spread rate was going to be, so you knew when you needed to pace or not.
>
> The AR in Halo 4 was lame as the bloom and spread rate never stretched beyond the distance of the reticle size in Halo 3, making bloom pointless.
Sorry. What I meant was for the accuracy to remain within the reticule size of h3’s variant.
Why not spawn with both? Give each weapon a niche that it fills to make both useful. Make the AR good at close-medium range and make the BR good at medium-long range. The BR should not be able to be used in every situation like it could in previous Halo games, likewise the AR should actually be useful like it was in Halo CE.
The AR in Halo 4 is pretty decent because it knows its role and it gets the job done. The reason why everyone hates the AR was specifically because you couldn’t kill anything with it in Halo 3 because the spread was so terrible. So reverting back to how it functions in Halo 3 would be a massive step back for the AR.
Spawning with both the BR and the AR is the best approach, IMO. However, one could argue that you’d essentially be throwing the Magnum into the dirt and burying it in a pile of rotting leaves. However on that however, that can be fixed by buffing the Magnum and placing it on the map.
Obviously the BR would make EVERY other starter obsolete.
Halp 4 is a prime example of this, when it got that buff, that’s what EVERYONE and their damn grandmothers used. That’s what finally broke me away from Halp 4.
So i’d have to say, let the AR remain the starter and BR/carbine a pickup, fight for your OP Headshot weapons
> Obviously the BR would make EVERY other starter obsolete.
>
> Halp 4 is a prime example of this, when it got that buff, <mark>that’s what EVERYONE and their damn grandmothers used.</mark> That’s what finally broke me away from Halp 4.
>
> So i’d have to say, let the AR remain the starter and BR/carbine a pickup, fight for your OP Headshot weapons
Given that I can easily take on a BR with just about every primary weapon aside from the Suppressor (I’m also not very good at the game), I’ve fallen under the impression that the main reason on why 90% of players use the BR is because it’s both iconic and nostalgic.
The weapon’s not really that overpowered.
I think the OP’s point was to make the AR and other automatics equivalent to power weapons (example: SAW). That way, players have a reason to actually use automatics and thus more of Halo’s sandbox will be utilized. Starting with a BR/DMR off-spawn is essential and would get rid of problems like spawn-trapping. It would actually increase the skill gap quite a bit.
> I think the OP’s point was to make the AR and other automatics equivalent to power weapons (example: SAW). That way, players have a reason to actually use automatics and thus more of Halo’s sandbox will be utilized. Starting with a BR/DMR off-spawn is essential and would get rid of problems like spawn-trapping. It would actually increase the skill gap quite a bit.
Nooo. I intended for the assault rifle to be improved to the point that it would be a tough choice for a skilled player to choose between it and the battle rifle (or other equivalent), and both of them spawn on map. Nonetheless the point is to make these weapons a bit more useful so that they are not thrown away.
someone mentioned that the automatics in Halo are in a weird place, where they’re meant to be easy to use but far inferior to precision starters.
It’s pretty strange that it’s that way, considering that the game seems to treat them like equally powerful weapons: they’re both considered fair game for starts and loadouts. Yet the automatics and the AR specifically are just on totally different levels. It would be interesting to see ALL loadout weapons require more comparable levels of skill to use and be effective in their own unique way. What if games with AR starts were as competitive as BR starts? What if people were less encouraged to simply gravitate to class of weapon aside from power weapons, thereby making more of the sandbox viable and providing more opportunities for games to play out differently and new gameplay experiences to emerge?
I’ve written and deleted maybe five drafts of my post so far.
I don’t know what to say.
How we ‘balance’ the AR first depends on what exactly it is we want the AR to do.
Same effective range as BR?
An in-between close-medium range weapon?
Something else entirely?
The BR should be our jack of all trades, master of none utility weapon. Basically being able to get kills efficiently at all ranges and only being out classed by weapons in their niche’s range. Snipers at long range, Shotguns at close range, ect. Exceptions being if players have enough proficiency with a weapon to use it outside of it’s niche’s range, no scoping with the Sniper for example. This makes the BR an ideal spawning weapon, letting players to start with a weapon that is reliable and consistent, that allows them to kills in most situations, but is not so powerful that it will keep players from picking up other weapons that might be more advantageous for how the maps are designed.
Now the AR should be a close to mid range weapon, being able to get kills within the same amount of time it takes for the BR to get kills at mid range and slightly faster at closer ranges. It should be consistent enough for its spread to fit into the Halo 3 reticule. Its damage should be able to achieve a kill in 12-16 rounds, depending on how close it is. Its fire rate syncing up its kill time with the BR’s at mid range, and getting slightly faster as it moves to close range. This allows the AR to be dominant in its own niche, while staying competitive with the BR at mid range, ensuring there is no best weapon for every situation. A similar approach should be used with DMR and the three Covenant counterparts.
> The BR should be our jack of all trades, master of none utility weapon. Basically being able to get kills efficiently at all ranges and only being out classed by weapons in their niche’s range. Snipers at long range, Shotguns at close range, ect. Exceptions being if players have enough proficiency with a weapon to use it outside of it’s niche’s range, no scoping with the Sniper for example. This makes the BR an ideal spawning weapon, letting players to start with a weapon that is reliable and consistent, that allows them to kills in most situations, but is not so powerful that it will keep players from picking up other weapons that might be more advantageous for how the maps are designed.
>
> Now the AR should be a close to mid range weapon, being able to get kills within the same amount of time it takes for the BR to get kills at mid range and slightly faster at closer ranges. It should be consistent enough for its spread to fit into the Halo 3 reticule. Its damage should be able to achieve a kill in 12-16 rounds, depending on how close it is. Its fire rate syncing up its kill time with the BR’s at mid range, and getting slightly faster as it moves to close range. This allows the AR to be dominant in its own niche, while staying competitive with the BR at mid range, ensuring there is no best weapon for every situation. A similar approach should be used with DMR and the three Covenant counterparts.
Definitely agree with you about the jack of all trades idea, and the BR certainly fulfills this role, perhaps too well. The BR seemingly does too many things too well, and not enough things at only a medium level. I love the BR it’s definitely a fun weapon to use, but I hope that the other weapons get a boost.
So, if the BR is medium usefulness in short, medium, and long ranges, what does that imply for the AR? It must be High usefulness at short range, medium usefulness at medium range, and low usefulness at long range. More importantly, what modifications to the AR make this true, because currently the BR too easily out classes the AR at even close range. Faster fire rate and deeper magazine while being more accurate. Thanks for the great post!
> Spawning with both the BR and the AR is the best approach, IMO. However, one could argue that you’d essentially be throwing the Magnum into the dirt and burying it in a pile of rotting leaves. However on that however, that can be fixed by buffing the Magnum and placing it on the map.
I share your concern about the sidearm. It’s in danger of being obsolete to Halo, and I feel it really shouldn’t be. IMHO, if on-map pickups are more powerful than starting weapons, then buffing a hand pistol doesn’t feel right. Why would a hand pistol be an on-map pickup when there are other, large, intrinsically more powerful weapons that can fill that role?
This is why I advocate starting weapons to vary based on map size.
BR/AR spawns would be ideal for medium or large sized maps without too many tight quarters. Each weapon - the BR with its scoped medium-range accuracy and the AR with automatic close-range power - gets a chance to shine. No need for the weaker weapons or sidearms.
For the smaller maps, you could go with AR/Magnum starts, and leave the BR as a rare on-map pickup. If magnums are a close-quarters weapon, then leave them for close-quarters combat only.
> > Spawning with both the BR and the AR is the best approach, IMO. However, one could argue that you’d essentially be throwing the Magnum into the dirt and burying it in a pile of rotting leaves. However on that however, that can be fixed by buffing the Magnum and placing it on the map.
>
> I share your concern about the sidearm. It’s in danger of being obsolete to Halo, and I feel it really shouldn’t be. IMHO, if on-map pickups are more powerful than starting weapons, then buffing a hand pistol doesn’t feel right. Why would a hand pistol be an on-map pickup when there are other, large, intrinsically more powerful weapons that can fill that role?
>
> This is why I advocate starting weapons to vary based on map size.
>
> BR/AR spawns would be ideal for medium or large sized maps without too many tight quarters. Each weapon - the BR with its scoped medium-range accuracy and the AR with automatic close-range power - gets a chance to shine. No need for the weaker weapons or sidearms.
>
> For the smaller maps, you could go with AR/Magnum starts, and leave the BR as a rare on-map pickup. If magnums are a close-quarters weapon, then leave them for close-quarters combat only.
I agree that weapons should be related to the map. I like AR/Magnum for small maps and BR/AR for large maps (though I often would prefer BR/Magnum).
I do not think Halo has any real need for a “sidearm”. Personally, I think that there should be 3 levels of weapons:
- Base weapons (BR, AR, Magnum, CC, SR, etc.)
- Minor power weapons (CQC weapons, automatics like SAW and needler)
- Major power weapons (rockets, railgun, etc.)
The base weapons should all be viable primaries. There really isn’t need for a “sidearm”. Make the Magnum a 5SK, reduce bloom, and slightly lower the RoF so that it kills in the same time as 5.5 shots for the current Magnum.
> > The BR should be our jack of all trades, master of none utility weapon. Basically being able to get kills efficiently at all ranges and only being out classed by weapons in their niche’s range. Snipers at long range, Shotguns at close range, ect. Exceptions being if players have enough proficiency with a weapon to use it outside of it’s niche’s range, no scoping with the Sniper for example. This makes the BR an ideal spawning weapon, letting players to start with a weapon that is reliable and consistent, that allows them to kills in most situations, but is not so powerful that it will keep players from picking up other weapons that might be more advantageous for how the maps are designed.
> >
> > Now the AR should be a close to mid range weapon, being able to get kills within the same amount of time it takes for the BR to get kills at mid range and slightly faster at closer ranges. It should be consistent enough for its spread to fit into the Halo 3 reticule. Its damage should be able to achieve a kill in 12-16 rounds, depending on how close it is. Its fire rate syncing up its kill time with the BR’s at mid range, and getting slightly faster as it moves to close ranges. This allows the AR to be dominant in its own niche, while staying competitive with the BR at mid range, ensuring there is no best weapon for every situation. A similar approach should be used with DMR and the three Covenant counterparts.
>
> Definitely agree with you about the jack of all trades idea, and the BR certainly fulfills this role, perhaps too well. The BR seemingly does too many things too well, and not enough things at only a medium level. I love the BR it’s definitely a fun weapon to use, but I hope that the other weapons get a boost.
>
> <mark>So, if the BR is medium usefulness in short, medium, and long ranges, what does that imply for the AR? It must be High usefulness at short range, medium usefulness at medium range, and low usefulness at long range. More importantly, what modifications to the AR make this true, because currently the BR too easily out classes the AR at even close range. Faster fire rate and deeper magazine while being more accurate.</mark> Thanks for the great post!
I can’t tell if you are asking me questions or are simply highlighting the important points of my paragraph.
> > > The BR should be our jack of all trades, master of none utility weapon. Basically being able to get kills efficiently at all ranges and only being out classed by weapons in their niche’s range. Snipers at long range, Shotguns at close range, ect. Exceptions being if players have enough proficiency with a weapon to use it outside of it’s niche’s range, no scoping with the Sniper for example. This makes the BR an ideal spawning weapon, letting players to start with a weapon that is reliable and consistent, that allows them to kills in most situations, but is not so powerful that it will keep players from picking up other weapons that might be more advantageous for how the maps are designed.
> > >
> > > Now the AR should be a close to mid range weapon, being able to get kills within the same amount of time it takes for the BR to get kills at mid range and slightly faster at closer ranges. It should be consistent enough for its spread to fit into the Halo 3 reticule. Its damage should be able to achieve a kill in 12-16 rounds, depending on how close it is. Its fire rate syncing up its kill time with the BR’s at mid range, and getting slightly faster as it moves to close ranges. This allows the AR to be dominant in its own niche, while staying competitive with the BR at mid range, ensuring there is no best weapon for every situation. A similar approach should be used with DMR and the three Covenant counterparts.
> >
> > Definitely agree with you about the jack of all trades idea, and the BR certainly fulfills this role, perhaps too well. The BR seemingly does too many things too well, and not enough things at only a medium level. I love the BR it’s definitely a fun weapon to use, but I hope that the other weapons get a boost.
> >
> > <mark>So, if the BR is medium usefulness in short, medium, and long ranges, what does that imply for the AR? It must be High usefulness at short range, medium usefulness at medium range, and low usefulness at long range. More importantly, what modifications to the AR make this true, because currently the BR too easily out classes the AR at even close range. Faster fire rate and deeper magazine while being more accurate.</mark> Thanks for the great post!
>
> I can’t tell if you are asking me questions or are simply highlighting the important points of my paragraph.
<mark>The highlighting could be signifying importance, or it could be asking for further explanation.</mark>
> > > > The BR should be our jack of all trades, master of none utility weapon. Basically being able to get kills efficiently at all ranges and only being out classed by weapons in their niche’s range. Snipers at long range, Shotguns at close range, ect. Exceptions being if players have enough proficiency with a weapon to use it outside of it’s niche’s range, no scoping with the Sniper for example. This makes the BR an ideal spawning weapon, letting players to start with a weapon that is reliable and consistent, that allows them to kills in most situations, but is not so powerful that it will keep players from picking up other weapons that might be more advantageous for how the maps are designed.
> > > >
> > > > Now the AR should be a close to mid range weapon, being able to get kills within the same amount of time it takes for the BR to get kills at mid range and slightly faster at closer ranges. It should be consistent enough for its spread to fit into the Halo 3 reticule. Its damage should be able to achieve a kill in 12-16 rounds, depending on how close it is. Its fire rate syncing up its kill time with the BR’s at mid range, and getting slightly faster as it moves to close ranges. This allows the AR to be dominant in its own niche, while staying competitive with the BR at mid range, ensuring there is no best weapon for every situation. A similar approach should be used with DMR and the three Covenant counterparts.
> > >
> > > Definitely agree with you about the jack of all trades idea, and the BR certainly fulfills this role, perhaps too well. The BR seemingly does too many things too well, and not enough things at only a medium level. I love the BR it’s definitely a fun weapon to use, but I hope that the other weapons get a boost.
> > >
> > > <mark>So, if the BR is medium usefulness in short, medium, and long ranges, what does that imply for the AR? It must be High usefulness at short range, medium usefulness at medium range, and low usefulness at long range. More importantly, what modifications to the AR make this true, because currently the BR too easily out classes the AR at even close range. Faster fire rate and deeper magazine while being more accurate.</mark> Thanks for the great post!
> >
> > I can’t tell if you are asking me questions or are simply highlighting the important points of my paragraph.
>
> <mark>The highlighting could be signifying importance, or it could be asking for further explanation.</mark>
Lmao just thinking out loud man