When you don’t have an actual argument outside of sticking your head in the sand and pretending other players can’t pick ranged weapons.
You only have an argument if you delete every weapon from the game with longer range than the AR. For all the squawking about lOgiC, you don’t seem all that concerned about it.
“AR has shorter range so there is more movement” is the extend of the “logic” on display here without accounting for literally any other aspect of the game.
All one would have to do is look at how my posts have actually contributed to the conversation while yours had the goal of just insulting those who had a differing opinion.
What you have to say is moot because what you have said thus far is a lot of words of nonsense where you have yet to point out how someone is stating something “illogical” as you put it.
And this is literally the first thing you said to me…does that seem nice to yOU? OR CONSTRUCTIVE!!!
And you aren’t accounting for not all the pickup weapons are long range.
You are not accounting that there aren’t enough long range weapons for everyone to hold them at once.
Get it?
Or did you fail to account for that?
See it is easy to just make comments…but you are still incorrect.
My original post was a jab at the fact that you said we were “a cult”.
It is called a joke.
r/whoosh
If you are going to quote someone, be sure to not take it out of context. I explained the core game design after making the observation that you seemed to not understand what makes Halo an Arena Shooter.
EDIT -
Also note, my statements don’t have unnecessary insults added onto them.
It clearly wasn’t out of context considering what we are now discussing which is tone and way of conversation with people.
If you are going to correct someone .,…make sure you do it in context.
Thanks
I accused you, with plenty of proof, of just shouting insults and your opinion in the hopes of trumping others. That is not how arguments are made friend. That is how flamewars start. Notice how this thread has become a strange flamewar instead of a constructive discussion? Honestly I cannot wait until the mods purge these last 40 posts and begin to review your account.
Wish ill will all you want.
We are just going to ignore you now.
There are more than enough ranged weapons to give the players who have them free reign over the map while the fresh spawns and close range only weapons have no recourse.
You haven’t prevented your hypothetical “prevent advancement with precision weapons” scenario, you’ve just removed the fresh spawns ability to do anything about it. It doesn’t even matter how many precision weapons there are short of removing all of them. A player who has a long range weapon has the freedom to engage at all ranges whereas the AR spawn does not have that freedom. You can’t take a path that favors ranged weapons when you can’t shoot back effectively.
Its all academic anyone given I already know that spawning players with precision weapons doesn’t turn the game into Verdun, because I’ve experienced precision starts first hand. Who do you think you’re trying to fool? I’m not going to ignore my firsthand experience because you keep abusing the word “logic”
Except that isn’t what is playing out in quick match right now before our eyes.
Ahaha it just isn’t.
You literally have people on the boards calling quick match run and gun due to the weapon.
I’ll agree with BTB only as those maps are too big to be toting mid to close range weapons especially when there’s tons of ppl with snipers and stuff on the map and you’re having to run 4 miles back to the battle.
Other than that, I’m gonna pass. I love the BR, it’s probably my favorite weapon and I’m pretty good with it, but I think it belongs as a ranked start only. It’s just too good. When you start with it, there’s really no point in picking anything else up or varying your gameplay at all. The gun is a beast and can quite effectively dominate or go even vs most other weapons on the field.
All this sounds like to me is players who don’t want to play ranked because people are better than them with the BR there so they want it in the non ranked playlists so they can dominate people lesser skilled than them.
I honestly cannot wait until the other weapons are added to the game over time. The more options the better.
After all, we have seen leaks of the Covenant Carbine and the Classic Shotgun making a return. It would be interesting if some of the campaign weapons make it into the multiplayer, similar to how Halo 5 had variants of weapons.
Imagine having a 10% chance of a Bulldog spawner dropping the Convergence Bulldog?
You are admitting problems, but I feel like you’re missing the point. I’m going to argue, but I don’t mean any disrespect.
Yes, we want weapons worth using. What we are saying is that precision starts made the fundamental problem worse. You can’t get mad at shotty-snipers for being a single game-mode that gives you two powerful weapons. But when your main casual gamemode gives you something as powerful as a BR right off the bat, and the devs placed weapons on the map implying you should pick them up, and they are useless compared to what you start with, then why are they there? Why didn’t they just delete them? Same with AR starts you pick up any other full-auto gun after Halo CE, and they are a side-step if not a straight downgrade. So again “Why is it there?”
Yeah, that’s a problem with alot of people and we aren’t given a good definition. Mine is just “If it can kill in 1-2 shots, its a power weapon.” but apparently infinite calls the ravager, hydra, bulldog, and heatwave a power weapon. Even though those take more hits just like the BR.
That’s not truth, that’s opinion. You find them more compelling. But in my opinion getting a 3-shot headshot isn’t compelling, it feels like we’re just pressing a button to get kills. I find that boring. They aren’t utility weapons, they’re just too OP. BR is just the poster-boy for a larger issue. Again, my opinion but I feel like there is more growth actually learning how each weapon works and using them successfully map-to-map. The problem is that precision weapons didn’t have competition before. Even in Halo 4’s loadouts people stuck with the BR because the DMR, lightrifle, and carbine just didn’t do as well. It still outclassed everything. Halo 5 pistol is more of a utility weapon though. There was some more room for playstyles there at least.
Because the rest of us got filtered out! And for once the devs are listening to the people who got alienated (pun not intended) on all sides of the fandom. Because they are trying to get as many people old and new on this game as possible. But now the BR people are feeling it because the BR isn’t then end-all weapon anymore. Hate to say it, you’re feeling what we felt years ago except on the opposite end.
Because it was a fundamental problem with the entire sandbox. Not just the BR. The BR just magnified the issue. Its not just the Spiker, it was the plasma rifle, the SMG, the AR, the magnum, the carbine. Why put them on the map if we should not use them?
I don’t mean this as an insult, but this one sentence sounds like you’re not good at anything except the BR. If that is the case, that’s fine, people are good at different things. You came into your own in an era where you only needed one valid style of play. And the BR in Infinite is still great! But it has competition now. I’ll still take a BR or Commando over the sidekick or AR but now they and the other weapons can hold their own. (mostly) Sure the AR and Sidekick are good, but if we start with BR’s again, then why are the AR and Sidekick taking up space? If everything else except pistols and precisions are considered power weapons, then what’s the point of having regular weapons? Why not just make every match a game of shotty snipers? Or fiesta?
What are you saying here? These decisions were made in direct response to MCC and Halo 5. If they go back to BR starts, then that is just stepping back toward those games. This is why they made BR starts standard in ranked. So players like you can have a place to flourish, while players like me have a place to chill. I agree the AR isn’t suited to BTB, but going back to the BR is over-correction. I would prefer the commando.
Your whole argument here is about map design, not weapon balance. Of course a shorter range weapon is limited in something like Sandtrap. Bigger maps require longer ranges. That’s fun with precision because for me, it becomes a game of cat-and-mouse. But on something like blackout, because a player can shoot anywhere on the map just as good as anywhere else, players can (and do) get stuck because a map like that is fitting with something with a shorter range. Part of the fun of games is overcoming these “inherently limited” challenges that you can still succeed with something that isn’t ideal. You want that BR on Streets you have to survive to get it. You want that sniper on Valhalla, same thing. That’s why arena shooters are fun, you have to earn your worth with crap before you can get gold. The problem before is that you don’t start with crap. You start with at least Silver.
I’m going to stop here because the arguments are turning toxic. Again I don’t mean any disrespect. With that said, your argument ignores why the weapon sandbox was rebuilt in the first place. And you’re acting like the BR fans are being ignored when you’re not being ignored. You guys are the reason why ranked is how it is. As for BTB, that still has many issues, but right now its not just the starting weapons that have problems. BTB is just horrible right now in general.
I guess we’ve abandoned “logic” and now you are relying on nebulous “people on the boards” instead to support your position.
A player who only has close range weapons can only safely move and fight in close range friendly paths. A player who has a versatile weapon can access those same close range paths and medium and long range paths because they can fight back even if another player has a ranged weapon. Who has the greater freedom of movement?
The disruptor acts like a more reliable plasma pistol, its good for breaking someone’s shields fast for a teammate to clean them up, or for you to swap and kill them with your BR, etc. It also slows down shield recharge by a good amount which can definitely come into play. Its not great still, but its far from useless, and its far more useful in BR starts than AR starts.
The only weapon that there’s just no reason to use is true in both game modes, and that’s the Ravager. Nobody picks that thing up unless they’re trolling.
Yes, we want weapons worth using. What we are saying is that precision starts made the fundamental problem worse. You can’t get mad at shotty-snipers for being a single game-mode that gives you two powerful weapons. But when your main casual gamemode gives you something as powerful as a BR right off the bat, and the devs placed weapons on the map implying you should pick them up, and they are useless compared to what you start with, then why are they there? Why didn’t they just delete them? Same with AR starts you pick up any other full-auto gun after Halo CE, and they are a side-step if not a straight downgrade. So again “Why is it there?”
It hasn’t made anything worse. The poorly balanced and designed weapons are still poorly balanced and designed, the precision weapons remain “meta” even in an AR start scenario. if a weapon is on the map but not worth picking up its on the devs to make it worth picking up. Picking up a weapon that is badly designed and balanced because devs limited the good weapons doesn’t add anything of value to outside of more pretty lights and colors.
It sucks when other cool looking weapons go unused, but you should be demanding better from your developers to fix bad weapons not taking away access to good weapons. Its not a solution its a placebo at best
That’s not truth, that’s opinion. You find them more compelling. But in my opinion getting a 3-shot headshot isn’t compelling, it feels like we’re just pressing a button to get kills. I find that boring. They aren’t utility weapons, they’re just too OP. BR is just the poster-boy for a larger issue. Again, my opinion but I feel like there is more growth actually learning how each weapon works and using them successfully map-to-map. The problem is that precision weapons didn’t have competition before. Even in Halo 4’s loadouts people stuck with the BR because the DMR, lightrifle, and carbine just didn’t do as well. It still outclassed everything. Halo 5 pistol is more of a utility weapon though. There was some more room for playstyles there at least.
There is more mechanical skill in achieving a perfect 3 shot in CE with the Pistol than there is getting a 16 shot kill with a bullet hose AR. Not that getting a kill with an AR can’t be fun, but it objectively has less depth than the Pistol. Rockets and shotguns are also satisfying in their own way, but it is far more superficial than getting a kill with a sniper.
Those other weapons need to be mechanically compelling on their own merits to have any meaning in “learning” them. Otherwise all you have is some shallow rock paper scissors gameplay. And this is what I mean with Ahistorical takes, because the BR in Halo 4 absolutely had competition it was trash tier pre-patch and post patch it was roughly equal with the Carbine(the carbine simply isn’t as popular) the Light Rifle had better range and could compete using its scope mechanic and the DMR post patch was only slightly behind the BR in terms of TTK and far better at range. Meanwhile both pre and post patch the auto weapons were all viable as well as the Boltshot and the plasma pistol had its niche. Pretty much only the Magnum was useless in Halo 4.
And yet people still chose the BR post patch. Its almost like the restrictive loadout system and lack of map pickups had something to do with it.
I find it amusing you are talking up the Halo 5 pistol as a “proper” utility when it is objectively one of the best we’ve ever had outclassing every previous BR(sans button combos) the Infinite BR, both DMR’s in terms of TTK, especially post patch. Halo 5 perfectly demonstrates that its the underperforming parts of the sandbox that are the problem not spawning with a utility weapon. Though it still has its own problems with shallow rock paper scissors gameplay and redundant weapons.
Because the rest of us got filtered out! And for once the devs are listening to the people who got alienated (pun not intended) on all sides of the fandom. Because they are trying to get as many people old and new on this game as possible. But now the BR people are feeling it because the BR isn’t then end-all weapon anymore. Hate to say it, you’re feeling what we felt years ago except on the opposite end.
I’m sorry but this is just nonsense, its hard to say you were “filtered out” when Bungie pressed on in spite of this with auto starts in both 2 and 3. Yet Precision starts were very popular in both competitive and casual circles at the height of the franchises popularity. But now we are listening to some silent majority, how’s that working out?
Because it was a fundamental problem with the entire sandbox. Not just the BR. The BR just magnified the issue. Its not just the Spiker, it was the plasma rifle, the SMG, the AR, the magnum, the carbine. Why put them on the map if we should not use them?
Again the BR magnifies nothing it only highlights bad design. If you want those weapons to be used fix them. As we noted with Halo 5 its the underperforming parts of the sandbox that are the problem. Bad weapons have no value until they are fixed, they add nothing to the game which is why you fix them. Demand more of your devs beyond window dressing weapons. You should absolutely use those weapons, when they devs actually fix them
I don’t mean this as an insult, but this one sentence sounds like you’re not good at anything except the BR. If that is the case, that’s fine, people are good at different things. You came into your own in an era where you only needed one valid style of play. And the BR in Infinite is still great! But it has competition now. I’ll still take a BR or Commando over the sidekick or AR but now they and the other weapons can hold their own. (mostly) Sure the AR and Sidekick are good, but if we start with BR’s again, then why are the AR and Sidekick taking up space? If everything else except pistols and precisions are considered power weapons, then what’s the point of having regular weapons? Why not just make every match a game of shotty snipers? Or fiesta?
Lol sure Jan I just haven’t mastered the art of filling the enemy my gigantic AR reticle or controlling random bloom. Be serious.
If spawning with one of the weakest BR’s in Halo history is all it takes to invalidate the AR(which definitely would not have happened pre nerf) then it just highlights how badly designed they are. It demonstrates why you don’t design weapons to be thrown away like the sidekick. Its funny you ask about the Sidekick’s role because the Mangler is the Sidekick without the random garbage. A close range precision weapon that can outgun a utility weapon but lacks the range and capacity compared to the BR.
There shouldn’t be a wide gap between “power” and “normal” weapons in the first place you don’t need a million different power weapons to keep the game moving. That doesn’t mean you have to remove weapons, but there should be a more even balance across the sandbox outside of a few key items. Because having a preponderance of incredibly powerful weapons(relative the rest of the sanbox) just leads to more situation where it matters more what weapon a player has rather than who is wielding it.
What are you saying here? These decisions were made in direct response to MCC and Halo 5. If they go back to BR starts, then that is just stepping back toward those games. This is why they made BR starts standard in ranked. So players like you can have a place to flourish, while players like me have a place to chill. I agree the AR isn’t suited to BTB, but going back to the BR is over-correction. I would prefer the commando.
So they learned to ignore historically popular casual precision start gametypes, the remove to composer that allowed players to tailor their experience, they learned that launching with no content is fine, limited customization is fine, predatory monetization is fine, they learned they should reintroduce random bloom(the first thing they addressed when they took over from Reach) and random vehicle and weapon spawns, and they learned that its okay to release a buggy poorly optomised mess of a game with no anti-cheat?
If this is what they learned from these games they learned entirely the wrong lessons and I don’t find it convincing that bringing back auto starts was the one right call they got out of all that.
Your whole argument here is about map design, not weapon balance. Of course a shorter range weapon is limited in something like Sandtrap. Bigger maps require longer ranges. That’s fun with precision because for me, it becomes a game of cat-and-mouse. But on something like blackout, because a player can shoot anywhere on the map just as good as anywhere else, players can (and do) get stuck because a map like that is fitting with something with a shorter range. Part of the fun of games is overcoming these “inherently limited” challenges that you can still succeed with something that isn’t ideal. You want that BR on Streets you have to survive to get it. You want that sniper on Valhalla, same thing. That’s why arena shooters are fun, you have to earn your worth with crap before you can get gold. The problem before is that you don’t start with crap. You start with at least Silver.
Psst, that’s because Lockout/Blackout isn’t very good(sans oddball) and Auto starts give you even fewer options given you can’t contest close or long range power weapons. Meaning players still hang out in there towers in both scenarios, but if you spawn with a utility weapon those tower locations are fundamentally less secure because as you said you now have new angles of attack.
Overcoming adverse situations is indeed part of the fun, but that expectation has to be reasonable and fair. The comeback needs to be based on one player or group of players overcoming the winning team using their own skill, not by assuming the other team will throw away their advantage for no reason. Auto starts are fundamentally limited in terms of how they can approach a winning team and not only that, but the skill gap is so low that there is limited if any real room to outplay your opponent. Its interesting to watch a BR outshoot a sniper, less so to watch a sniper miss every shot with an AR player charging straight at them. The first scenario is an upset, the second is just an embarrassing choke the AR player had nothing to do with.
I’m going to stop here because the arguments are turning toxic. Again I don’t mean any disrespect. With that said, your argument ignores why the weapon sandbox was rebuilt in the first place. And you’re acting like the BR fans are being ignored when you’re not being ignored. You guys are the reason why ranked is how it is. As for BTB, that still has many issues, but right now its not just the starting weapons that have problems. BTB is just horrible right now in general.
I’m not ignoring why the rest of the sandbox was created, I want developers to take responsibility for what they have created and want them to fix it. Because I don’t accept any old garbage given to me. If you want someone to use a weapon make it worth using. Y’all act like one a weapon is designed a released nothing can be one as if balanced and design updates don’t exist. We haven’t had to settle for a static game since 2003 and since then it has always been in the dev’s power to fix the sandbox but too many people are fine with any badly designed weapon so long as they like how it looks and expect the world to move around them so they can use it.
I have to say its rich to see you talk about how its getting “toxic” when you just accused me of “not knowing how to use anything but the BR.”
“I can’t believe the fire is getting worse!” says local man throwing gasoline on the fire.
I think I would prefer to have more ranked playlists with a mixture of Radar and no radar… slayer objective with BR starts. Keep no radar in hardcore playlists.
I’d be fine if they added a BR star variant to these playlists. It would not be 100% BR or 100% AR starts. We could also do with some Banished Slayer variants too.
Also besides swat.
Totally agree with you. AR is just boring to play. Halo has always been BR shootouts where it was best.