This is a good parody post. Truth be told we should have both AR starts, BR starts, and covi starts.
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What would covi starts entail
Just a difference of opinion.
Itâs certainly not an informed opinion. The âSweatsâ are the core fanbase of the Halo series. People that want AR starts are a minority
Spawning with covi weapons like the PR or that red rifle. All the weapons and pick up on the map would be covi ones.
Iâm open to testing, if 343 actually lets us flight stuff. Weâll never know how an AR+BR starts BTB/Arena will feel unless we get to try it. And Customs keep breaking. Thanks 343.
You have yet to demonstrate a firm grasp of any of my points. All youâve accomplished here is throwing out flailing insults whether its âkidâ âtoddlerâ and begging for stats that you think youâll be able to shame me for.
What makes Battle royales or other Arena shooters popular is irrelevant as Halo is its own beast regardless of what genreâs and sub genreâs it gets labeled as. Halo is not your traditional arena shooter, as many a Quake fan would have been happy to tell you circa 2001, and has its own needs, versatile starting weapons are one of them
The only thing that lowers weapon diversity are bad weapons, if a weapon isnât worth picking up with a utility start it isnât worth picking up period.
I also see we are back to the time honored Auto start supporter traditional of taking a bog basic skillset like âpredictionâ and pretend its somehow uniquely benefited by AR starts. It is also funny in light of the fact that you refuse to recognize that players with limited range are also fundamentally easier to predict than someone capable of engaging at multiple ranges.
I gotta love how Iâm the one asking for the âcrutchâ because I want engagements to be more competitive when you are the one who admitted that your love for AR starts comes from the fact you can get those easier kills. while also admitting your own inability to make use of weapons are quite capable of handily defeating a BR user.
I donât find shooting at opponents to who canât shoot back very compelling, but you clearly do and that is ultimately the main problem with Auto only starts and their supporters.
Just to make sure Iâm no misunderstanding, if by BR+AR you mean spawning everyone with both the BR and AR at the same time then yes, absolutely, that is honestly always my assumption for how most standard gametypes ought to work.
When I take issue with âAR startsâ I more specifically referring the close range only weapon setups give or take a dinky pistol. I am perfectly happy to also have an auto weapon off spawn provided there is also a proper ranged weapon off spawn as well.
As with many things in Halo I think the community got it right the first time with AR/(utility)Pistol starts in CE and the same goes for subsequent iterations like BR/SMG, BR/AR, DMR/AR, AR/Magnum(Halo 5)*, it just a combo that works and I found it immensely disappointing to see 343 regress after almost perfecting it in Halo 5. We were so close to almost universal settings so satisfy most people.
*Clearly these are not all created equally, but the fundamental point is that I think Utility/Auto is a solid starting combo.
Nope the point of wanting to see your stats is to disprove your point. If AR spawns are so useless then your social stats would be off the charts by your arguments.
And again with the âother guns just arenât worth usingâ argument.
When the problem is basically every other gun but the one, maybe its time to look at the one. The BR is too useful and thats the problem here. The 2 weapon system was designed to make you consider what you would need going into combat. Having a long range utility weapon actively cuts against that. You canât just say no to points that are facts.
And it still comes back to you saying BR is so good that it dominates when its just a map weapon and that its impossible to counter but yet adds diversity but also guns that donât get used are just bad and then you say the AR is a death sentence as a spawn weapon but also that the AR is OP as a starting weapon. You are pulling in so many opposite directions and i think everyone sees it.
I tried to cordially explain why people prefer AR starts and you said we should all be stepped on because AR starts make you sad and you hate us so I wish you good luck but its not worth arguing anymore because you donât use sound logic, just feelings.
And again with the âevery other gun but the oneâ There clearly are other weapons worth using even if you personally canât make use of them, and there always have been throughout the franchise but yâall will reach for any excuse to ignore them.
My point is if simply spawning with a utility weapon is enough was enough to make one specific gun not worth using, it still wouldnât be worth using over a utility weapon in auto starts, at that point you are just demanding people use bad weapons rather than fixing bad weapons.
Unsurprisingly you keep taking what Iâve actually said and twisting until it suits you. Its just to defend against the BR, its ensuring fresh spawns have the tools and options to fight back against a variety of threats ranged weapons are one threat, close range pickups are another. Utility starts are fundamentally a setup meant to reduce snowballing, which you have already admitted is a greater issue in auto starts.
Tell me specifically how the auto start respawn is supposed to kill a player at a distance with a BR let alone a sniper or some other range capable weapon. Its not that a player with a ranged player becomes unkillable, its that in those specific types of encounters where a fresh spawn has no real recourse in those specific moments.
Like sure, you can imagine plenty of scenarios where someone with only close range weapons can theoretically sneak around and close in on a player with a ranged weapon, but that isnât the question at hand. Iâm talking about scenarios where through no fault of their own a fresh spawn is suddenly stuck dealing with a player in a situation where there is not much they can really hope to do about it in that moment.
One might say, well they died so its fair game, but thatâs exactly the point, they were already punished, they lost their positioning and any special items they might have and potential gave points to the enemy, how many times do you think a player should die for failing once? And we come right back around to the snowballing issues.
There is no contradiction, you just steadfastly refuse to engage with the actual points at hand. Just because an issue is subjective does not mean that all opinions hold equal weight and the auto start supporters have utterly failed to make a case that auto starts make for a better overall experience compared to the one the franchise was built on.
Its amazing you call the interactions you have with people who disagree with you âcordialâ while attempting to talk down to strangers as âkidâ or âtoddler,â just a complete lack of self awareness.
You want an appology here you go, im sorry. And i was very cordial answering the OPs question honestly with a very specific break down per gun on how often they get used with each start. Then you came in here and basically said screw your opinion i hope you and all the AR start people get stepped over and lose your playlist.
I was out here arguing for you people to get your own playlist and you said thats not good enough. You wanted to force what i would assume is half the population who enjoy AR starts to play BR starts instead of just getting a new playlist. You wanted to harm others experience and came in here insulting people first so not too sure what you expected.
The fact remains that AR spawns have more diversity. The only other question is whether you like the consequences of that and i and many others do.
I expected you to try and defend your position without misrepresenting how utility starts actually play out or what weapons actually get use but time and again you refused to do so, so why on Earth should I cater to those people who tell me to disregard my own experiences.
Compromise is good if it serves a greater purpose, bisecting(which is a generous assumption imo but you do you), what remains of the population is not something I consider a good thing especially when one of your the underlying goals, more variety, can be accomplished by raising underperforming weapons up not playing keep away with weapons players actually want to use.
If you donât seek out any other changes beyond trying to shove to icky BR under the table, then you only care about the most superficial, shallow âvariety.â I thought 343 we incredibly close to finding a good balance for starting weapons at the start of Halo 5(the launch not the beta) and I fail to see how splitting the playerbase is anything but a step backwards.
I sternly disagree on the grounds that the main weapons people use in AR starts are the AR and sidekick.
The conversation around auto starts revolves around social play. An experience catered towards casual players. I cannot care less about what happens in the pro scene. Iâm not a pro. I donât watch HCS. Iâve never heard of Lucid until I read this post.
Funny that you say that, Iâm currently collecting data on weapon swapping habits between precision and auto team slayer with an accounting of all sorts of variables. I donât have a large enough data set to make any definitive statements yet, but so far it seems auto starts do encourage people to swap out their weapons more often in social play.
I feel like this could just as easily be used as an argument for expanding the range of pickups in auto slayer.
TBD, but it appears as though people pick up the commando and mangler more, but again Iâm still collecting data.
No u.
So i canât say for everyone. But i already listed out which guns i use/see used more/the same/less often with each start and then why thats the case for what i see. Maybe it would help us if someone on the BR spawn side could do the same.
Also @WerepyreND because i have represented very accurately how i see and use BR and AR spawns so maybe you could help me out here and do the same thing that i did. A per gun break down from your own view. Because i have always seen the BR out power many guns and then the guns are just called trash and not worth using if they canât keep up.
That argument to me just leads to power creep and a much lower TTK on average when the one gun, i would say, that is just too strong is the BR and it could use a small nerf IMO. Maybe not to DPS but to how it handles. That way there is some more skill in how it gets used because personally i have no trouble using it. I find it super easy to aim with and consistently get kills with.
But if it had something akin to the commandos recoil (not saying add that much recoil to the BR but something similar to make it difficult to control to use at max effectiveness) then i would be more inclined to listen to BR start people because from what i have seen the BR just holds too much ease of use and lethality in one gun and i think it hurts gameplay.
Yes before Infinite the AR was comeplete and utter garbage not worth a second thought but now that its not in Infinite i say it makes the perfect starting weapon.
I use every single weapon possible in BR starts. I ignore about 1/4 of them in AR starts because they donât beat the AR or Sidekick.
See i need specifics here because what guns donât beat the AR/SK. I canât think of any close range guns that donât outkill the AR/SK at their effective range.
If you are trying to say the AR outranges them it just barely does and they would be way more outranged by a BR anyway. So due to the AR sharing a higher percentage of its effective range with short range weapons i see way more weapons used than in BR starts because of the average engagement distance i brought up earlier.
The sentinel beam and disruptor donât do enough damage faster to win in a CQC fight without melees, it often turns into a trade or loss when missing even the slightest bit with the sentinel beam, which is much harder to aim. The disruptor is also bugged and doesnât DOT people half the time.
The Plasma Pistol is pointless, both weapons kill in roughly a second. The Pulse Carbine is far less efficient. The Needler canât beat the AR or Sidekick in a straight fight. The Heatwave is bugged and often takes 3 shots, which is slower than the AR and Sidekick kill times. The Bulldog is also bugged right now and just plain does no damage some shots. The mangler is underwhelming and really only good for drop combos now. The hydra is great in BR starts but too slow to kill someone in AR starts. Incidentally it has the same TTK as the BR with its normal fire. The commando is good in btb but on smaller maps just plain loses to the Sidekick.
I pick every weapon up and throw the AR away in a heartbeat, but the fact is most of the sandbox is either tied or beaten by it and/or the sidekick in a realistic setting. They DESIGNED it that way. You said yourself itâs the strongest AR in the series.
If they take away that headshot bonus it might be different. As it stands itâs way too RNG based and way too strong in its intended use.
In BR starts literally every weapon is viable, including the AR/Sidekick.
If your argument is that you see more weapons picked up in AR starts thatâs one thing. But the fact is more weapons are redundant in AR starts and not worth picking up.
The sentinel beam comes down to aim (and quick note, boy do i love this sentinel beam, it is so strong but has crazy recoil and i find it so much fun to use) and the disruptor for me sees even less play with BRs because i am never close enough to use it to bust shields then swap to get the headshot, not that i donât get close but if i am people will usuallybe able to counter it anyways, i use it much more in AR starts because most people are closer and then the SK can get the finishing shot.
Both shotguns always get me kills over ARs if i stay close enough.
Pulse carbine and plasma pistol i gave as the only 2 guns i saw being used more in BR starts because they do pair well with the BR.
I personally hate using the hydra, i donât find it fun but in BRs i definitely use it less because i find it is better close up and again my average engagement distance is further so it just gets used less.
Its so weird how we see/use weapons this different. I still get why people like BR spawns and i will still argue that it should get its own playlists while also saying leave AR spawns alone. I think thats the only compromise where both parties get what they want. Then we again join forces to get our cool armors back.
This game doesnât have enough weapons in the sandbox to go fully BR⌠sure it works but the âotherâ weapons need to buffed to fit in the sandbox. The BR shouldnât be a close, mid range, long range weapon⌠Whats the point of picking up other weapons besides "power weapons⌠AR needs buff so people use it, we need to Carbine, Railgun, Laser, SMG, Bruteshot, need more weapons to combat the BR⌠because right now its OP.
Trust me if you start with a BR people will never use the AR⌠When you start an AR match the first thing you think is where is the BR lol
Thats why Halo 2 and 3 worked so great the sandbox of weapons worked while with having a BR be the go to weapon⌠Halo Infinite all the weapons are complete trash besides (power ups and shotgun)
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