AR does not work as a starting weapon. Part of the reason you feel that people camp with BRs is because you aren’t spawning with one. It’s so pathetically easy to snowball a game and sit in power positions with BRs when you spawn with an AR that is going to do so little against a BR at range.
Halo 3 AR starts don’t work. It’s so easy to snowball H3 games especially because the sandbox doesn’t have many viable options outside of the BR and Power weapons. Please, go play snowbound ARs with a team that knows what they’re doing and have fun being spawncamped by beam rifles lmao.
Who exactly is sitting in corners with BRs anyway? Why aren’t you utilizing grenades and, get this, a headshot capable utility weapon to flush them out and clean up with a headshot? There’s no viable reason to camp with BRs, and if there’s a map with that problem it has more to do with poor map design than it does having a BR off spawn. If you’re sitting still and waiting for people to come to you, you’re giving up map control, power weapon spawns… you’re actively not playing Halo.
All BR starts do is skip the step where you scavenge for a ranged weapon. It speeds up the gameplay loop by giving you an option to get immediately into the action, and as a bonus, it drastically reduces the effects of teams snowballing. The only real reason I can ever see someone actually wanting AR starts is to farm stats off people spawning with weapons they actively can’t fight back with.
Yeah you have issues dude. You really need to grow up and get over yourself. You and all the other BR spawn people because clearly 343 knows most people who play Halo don’t want them. Thats why AR spawns were added to MCC and then Infinite.
Infinite is the best playing Halo MP for a reason. Most reviews only complain about lack of content not gameplay. So you are just wrong and Halo does for a fact play better with AR spawns.
Proof that Halo thrived in spite of BR spawns is that no other shooter has ever had a gun as OP as a BR and been successful without nerfing it. It doesn’t work. But BR cry babies didn’t want to actually play an Arena shooter where map weapons are the key to winning not spawning with OP weapons.
So you can just go play the older Halos of you want your BR spawns and i would hope (and this seems to be the case since we have AR starts now) that 343 is not listening to people like you.
AR starts would be fine if the Sidekick wasn’t a spammy, scopeless, close quarters trending weapon. You can land long distance shots but its more of a deterrent or distraction than doing any actual good with it at that range. It has a shorter RRR than the AR even. On very close range maps its fine to use it as the primary, but the gameplay just becomes who can spam the trigger faster RNG nonsense.
What people fail to realize about the BR that makes people like it is the timing. The burst fire makes it a weapon you have to think about when in an engagement. You miss, you waste substantial time while the burst completes its cycle and the weapon resets for the next burst. With the AR and Sidekick, you don’t really have to worry about that, because of the fire rate.
So the difference is most apparent in the SPAM vs. TIMING mechanics of the weapons.
I have issues because I think we should ignore the opinions of people who want the game designed around an experience of farming easy kills with minimal effort. Okay then…
I have to laugh at “343 knows best” when the overwhelming amount of people who have ever touched infinite dropped it like it was radioactive. “343 clearly knows better that’s why they added loadouts and killstreaks” “343 knows better that’s why they added advanced mobility” “343 knows better which is why they added random vehicle and weapon spawns” “343 knows better which is why they added worse, more restrictive customization with no content”
343’s track record in figuring out what Halo fans want seems to be pretty atrocious so forgive me if I don’t think highly of their forcing AR starts on everything social. Amazing how Infinite has completely failed to gather the same level of consistent playtime as a decade+ old titles which apparently had settings everyone hated.
Amazing how this success is always “in spite” of the various utility weapons in a 20 year history, they were all just itiching for that true auto start Halo experience that they immediately dropped the moment they actually had it.
You don’t care about Arena shooter, you only try and use them as a cudgel so you can farm fresh spawns with minimal effort. I don’t care how other Arena shooters work, I care how Halo works, which is why utility starts have always been necesarry. The majority of weapons in the Halo sandbox has always been worth picking up, but y’all can’t help but handwave away every useful weapons despite the evidence to the contrary.
Gotta love how you tell someone to go play older Halo games because I want new Halo games to play like Halo games, but sure I’m the selfish one here. I’m trying to imagine applying this to anything else.
Hey Should we
A.) Keep a formula for that had been successful for decades.
or
B.) Change the core setup of the game to please people who have hated the formula for 20 years
Wow, such a difficult choice, but as per usual 343 has chosen option A and is laughing all the way to the low playerbase like they have every time before, but now they have whales to exploit to sustain them instead, such progress!
Because listening to the feedback of sweats over what the player base actually wants has worked so well in the past, right? Opening with that immediately discredits the following point on it’s own.
The BR is so good you don’t even need to bother scavenging for pickups. AR starts are superior in every imaginable way. Leave BR starts in ranked. The sweats get to have their fun over there, while the rest of us can enjoy the game mostly unpolluted by tumor that is E-sports.
So either the BR is so OP that not spawning with one is an immediate death sentence or you and everyone else over exaggerates to try to make it seem like AR spawns are evil.
Show us your gamertag if this game is so easy you should easily have a 5.0+ KD. Heck why should you ever die if its this easy? Why am i Onyx but my ranked stats are higher than my overall stats which means my social stats are even less than that? Something doesn’t add up here and I think its your broken logic.
Yeah 343 has done a ton of crap but the one thing they got right was a decent AR and AR/SK spawns.
It must be sad to want an entire franchise to be based on a single gun, to say that without this gun you will somehow always get outplayed no matter what but at the same time say that its not OP, then turn around and say the AR is OP because it kills at more than shotgun range and can outkill the BR at close range but then to say the AR is a death sentence because the BR is so much better, and while saying all this you still claim the BR leads to more diverse gameplay.
You and all other BR people much be having an aneurysm trying to live with this contradictory logic. You have to pick one:
the BR and AR are fair starts with just different play styles
the AR is utter trash and the BR is so overpowered that not having one at all times is a death sentence
the AR is OP, this one is the most laughable argument i hear because at the same time people say this they always argue 2 is happening as well
So show us your stats kid, prove AR spawns are easy farming kills while also some how proving the BR isn’t OP.
I’m in the same boat, at least for Big Team Battle that is. Small maps can stay Pistol + AR though. Commando is a solid middle ground for BTB though, they can even replace all commando’s on the map with Battle Rifles if they want too.
Battle Rifle is the most versatile weapon in the game. It covers a lot of situations well and is generally then the rest and in most situations it’s best to keep on hand with whatever you want or get for a secondary. You’ll be switching up weapons more with the AR+Pistol and Commando+ AR or Pistol, then if you start off with Battle Rifles.
I don’t know why its so hard for you to grasp that if two players encounter each other at a distance and one only has close range weapon(because they are a fresh spawn) and another has a ranged weapon there isn’t anything that close range player can do about being shot. It doesn’t take a huge amount of thought to figure it out.
Keep in mind, the “BR OP” is your argument not mine, my argument is that versatility(which the BR happens to provide) is necessary off spawn to keep the game fun and fair for everyone. In case you forgot the BR isn’t the only ranged capable weapon. Nor are ranged weapons the only threat, but sure tell me your super smart play that will also let you outgun a close range power weapon with your close range only starter.
“bbut some of those are power weapons” Yes and their should still be some risk involved in using them. The possibility of turning around an engagement is what makes Halo so compelling. Rock paper scissors is boring.
I gotta love the complete unearned confidence that oh no this(AR starts) is the one good decision 343 has made because it suits my narrative.
Its amazing to see you drone on about “broken logic” when you continue to completely misrepresent the BR start argument until it is unrecognizable.
You seem completely incapable of nuance . The evidence being you can’t fathom how someone could believe for example that the AR is overpowered while still being unsuitable for a starting weapon. An AR, for example could be too effective relative to the effort required but that power is meaningless in the context of a starting weapon when ranged weapons get involved, but who am I kidding all you will take from this tangent is “lol he think AR OP”
I don’t have to pick any of them because they are all wildly inaccurate to what I actually said and believe, but by all means keep embarrassing yourself by calling strangers on the internet “kid” like its 2007
You are right. I should have called you a toddler since throwing a fit is the only way you know how to try get what you want.
Your points are just as illogical as a toddler’s too. Battle Royales are popular because you have to deal with the wepaons you have. You may be at a disadvantage because the other person has better weapons. That is where the fun is at. Same thing goes for Arena Shooters. Each weapon should do certain things and not be some perfectly well rounded weapon that can be useful in over 90% of situations.
I argue that the BR is too useful and that is what lowers weapon use diversity. The AR is just useful enough but you will still be at a disadvantage in many situations by either being outranged or too close for melee or short range guns. Infinite’s AR has the perfect sweet spot for its range to outrange most close range weapons but lose to long range weapons at long range. Thus forcing you to go find more weapons to suit the situation you predict you will be in. The BR actively cuts out most of the predicting which is part of Arena Shooters.
Proof prediction is supposed to be a heavy part of Halo is the 2 weapon system. If trying to predict the situation you will be in is not part of it then why don’t we have the wepaon wheel that is common in many other Arena Shooters?
The BR can not be so strong that without it you are fodder while also at the same time having equal or more diversity of gameplay. This is the point we have been arguing yet you just say “No” then provide no evidence other than you admitting you need the BR as a crutch to be decent at the game.
Or we can have BR+AR like previous Halos and people will be happy. AR for the people who can only spray, BR for the people who prefer to hang back and pick off enemies. If you find yourself being descoped all the time by someone shooting at you with AR, then heck sounds like a massive positional problem, so move your butt.
My only gripe is that the spawns in Infinite are so bad right now that you literally spawn in someone’s LoS, so the easy BR access will cause alot of spawn killing, the sort which happens on Last Resort in Halo 3. (We all know how atrocious it feels to be on the receiving end of that).
Improve spawns + BR+AR starts + maybe adjust the frequency of power weapon spawns and we can have a decently functioning Precision BTB.
I like both BR and AR starts, to be honest. the BR starts however make you go for more weapons whereas the AR tends to be used as the main weapon for most of the game.
Not trying to sound rude and i do appreciate it when people try to seek a middle ground but the pro AR spawns people are also anti BR spawns because we don’t think you should be able to spawn with a weapon that versatile.
If we wanted to do something similar i would be more inclined to do AR+commando starts because the commando is actually difficult to use effectively giving it a nice high skill ceiling while also not being near as useful as the BR. I think that is the closest AR spawn people will come to what you are suggesting. And thanks for the cordial discussion.
You literally didn’t read my comments. Either that or you didn’t understand,
I would rather have a BR over an AR because I’m decent at this game. When you pick up a BR you have an advantage over someone with an AR. The difference is even more pronounced when you have a full team shooting at the same person at the same time at any range.
When 4 of you spawn with a BR you are giving the team a more powerful weapon to start with; which is actually the reason why BR starts shouldn’t be the default.
AR is the logical weapon start option. It is strictly average and has no bells and whistles. This covers all skill ranges, not just the <1% pro player that could literally wipe the floor with you by getting you to grenade yourself to death
Of the three, this is the closest one to accurate, but I don’t view the AR as a fair starting weapon for a couple of reasons. It is way too strong at close range, making most close quarters weapons obsolete, and the lack of ranged capability make it nearly useless past mid range, which creates a bad dynamic in a team game where you’re supposed to be working together and helping each other. In FFA it’s fine. Even on super tightly close maps it’s tolerable. It’s absolutely abysmal on mid sized maps and in btb to be stuck with AR starts.
The BR is equally good at all ranges, and not overpowered at any of them since it requires both aim and timing to use optimally. And barring extremely large maps where it has trouble getting clean hits across the map, it can help teammates who are in trouble. Still, at least it can put some bullets in people at any range.
That’s the point. The AR is not a teamwork weapon, it’s a personal bullet hose meant for close range fights and room clearing.
The BR isn’t more powerful than the AR, it just has more versatility. The AR has strengths and limitations. The BR is more balanced in that regards, it’s more spread out and less focused on just one role.
I somewhat agree but I personally think there shouldn’t be any secondary in casuals. I think it encourages acquire another weapon to give you an advantage.
That’s the biggest reason why I often look for a secondary, it gives me the advantage. When I play casuals I don’t feel the need because the Sidekick is so good and the AR is as well.
Now I wouldn’t mind to have 50/50 AR or BR starts within Casuals. I think secondary starts is the larger problem which is creating this divide then most realize.
So i disagree with the first half of this but agree on the second.
At close range every single map weapon will outkill the AR except for the plasma pistol but that is a support weapon. The only way the AR outkills them is if you are right outside of their range. This puts the AR in between long range guns like the BR and close range guns like the bulldog but gives it a window where it is the most effective gun to use. That window is pretty narrow and why i love Infinite’s AR so much. Previous ARs lost to everything no matter what really and didn’t have their own sweet spot thats why ARs were bad starter weapons, they were useless. I would argue that is still more fun to play than BR/DMR starts but again that is subjective.
My point there is pointing back to past AR starts and saying “see it made you fodder then so its a bad idea now” doesn’t work because Infinite’s AR is different and actually good. You didn’t make this argument but others did.
These disagreements are why we need more playlists so we can quit arguing over game modes and get back to trying to get 343 to bring back the cool armors like Hayabusa and Helioskrill along with the unchanging difficult challenges required to earn them. That is my biggest issue with Halo Infinite, not weapon balancing or maps. Somehow 343 made awesome maps in H4, absolute trash in H5, then gave us fantastic ones again so i can say i am thankful for that.