alright well if you’re not even going to give my response a single braincell of thought, that’s fine.
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I’m still standing by Commando start, for the various reasons which I’ve mentioned before:
- Longer TTK so crossmapping isn’t so prevalent
- Full auto means even an amateur can use it at mid range
- Rewards headshots over bodyshots so skill is still required
- More people spawning with it means more Ammo lying around either from trading it out or dropped on death, removing the one major flaw in its design which is terrible ammo economy + starting reserve
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Well, you already explained it yourself. Everybody will trade at least one of both starting weapons or even both. So (except for ppl who just respawned) about half of the people don’t have the SK anymore and about half the people don’t have the AR anymore and a portion won’t have either. So there is not a weapon that more then half the players will have.
This while with BR- starts almost everybody will have the BR. Only the 2nd weapon will vary. And even with that 2nd weapon varying, most will just use that BR anyways and the 2nd weapon often is only a backup when they are out of ammo (either completely, or if they otherwise would have to reload during a firefight).
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I don’t think ‘amateurs’ (i think you mean new players, because almost everybody is an amateur, since only the few ones in a professional team are not amateurs) would be able to realy use the commando on mid range distance because of the strong recoil.
You miss the point of starting everyone with the AR. It’s to let people have an easier weapon to start on so players of all levels are on equal starting kill power and more importantly to stop the game from swinging out as a duck and shoot crossmapping nightmare that was literally every single previous Halo game.
By limiting crossmapping, you make more of the map safer to explore and scavenge for weapons before the conflict starts. The problem is the AR actually spits pretty far so I still want them to tone that down abit.
The only time I’ll condone BR starts for all modes is if they can find a way to balance BR the way H3 BR is, with some small projectile lag so 4 bursts at over 30m away doesn’t just pick off a moving target.
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Semantics. And I find the Commando to be much more lethal at mid to close, sporting faster TTK than the BR or AR with varying levels of consistency when looking at replays of various players using them.
For the most part, full autoing the Commando is not ideal but for a newbie who full autos from the center mass of an opponent, the recoil is just enough that 7 shots will push it to head level for the 8th to headshot, so even if a newbie who wings it all the time, they may get a kill now and then against an equally lowskilled player.
Commando + AR imo is a great starter loadout for games like BTB.
“BR Starts Enourages Weapon Variety”… I think this is an oversimplification. Have you considered players may have different personal preferences?
The MA40 AR is essentially the floor short ranged weapon in Halo Infinite. You can pick up any other weapon in the game and if it is used optimally it will perform better than the AR.
The BR75 is essentially the floor long ranged weapon in Halo Infinite. With BR starts literally any other weapon will kill faster and since you don’t have a secondary weapon of course you should be picking one up to give yourself an edge in combat.
In casual game modes, should the main priority be “weapon variety”? Should new players be forced to use weapons they are not comfortable with? I would say no… if you want variety go play Fiesta. If you think about casual players who are perhaps new to Halo, I bet lots would prefer the close ranged combat that the AR starts promote over the tactical gameplay that BR starts promote. A casual player who may not be familiar with maps might find themselves getting gunned down often with BR’s for getting caught in the open.
As others have said, both have their places. I don’t think either start promotes variety more than the other, if anything all that really changes is the style of gameplay. Why can’t there be both?
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It’s not about ttk or anything. BR is used because of its consistency. It’s THE competitive weapon of choice. It just works. Headshots land. It kills quick. It’s not buggy. The aim assist magnetism is strongest on the BR. 343 has never cared about making a fun game with fun weapons, and Halo Infinite is more geared towards competitive arena sterilization than ever. The Infinite BR is 343s baby, the moneymaker, the spotlight weapon. People use it because it’s the BR. Doesn’t matter if anything else COULD kill faster, because the BR is consistent. It’s comfortable to use. You don’t get tired of it or mad at the BR. I wouldn’t trade the BR and Sidekick for any standard Infinite weapon unless they do add the DMR here in Season 3.
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Here’s the situation. A lot of guns either get used less or not at all in BR starts. This is due to the average range of engagement. In AR starts it’s much closer and this allows for all of the close range guns to be useful more often.
Now i know i will just be called bad with the BR instead of people trying to argue the points. So to combat this i will say i am Onyx and yeah i goof off some in casual so its not my best stats but that said I would say I am way better with the BR starts than AR starts even when i try my best at both. I find BRs super easy to use because it has almost no down sides and yes i prefer AR starts.
Here is a more specific break down.
In BR starts i don’t use these guns unless my BR has to be reloaded and i am in combat or am out of BR ammo:
-Shock Rifle
-Ravage
-disruptor
-AR
-commando
-needler
-mangler (this thing has been trash since the nerf)
-hydra
I feel like this is true for most people. If your opponent has any skill they are either not going to let you get close enough for some of these guns and the others are just not able to compete with the BR. At least when i see these guns on the map this is how i play against them because I am usually able to outkill with the BR, stay far enough away to outrange with the BR, and if i can’t outrange then im going to get close enough to melee or pop shields with a nade then get the headshot kill with the BR.
This is a list of weapons i use less with BR spawns:
-bulldog
-heatwave
-sidekick
-stalker rifle
-sentinel beam
-Energy sword
-Geavity hammer
This is due to the average range of engagements being longer so i am less likely to be in the effective range of some of these weapons and as for the stalker rifle, why risk going for it when i already have a BR and could just go camp a spot with it?
There are only 2 weapons i use more in BR spawns and thats:
-plasma pistol
-pulse carbine
This is due to them being able to strip shields and then the easy headshot kill.
The following get used the same ammount:
-sniper
-skewer
-SPNKR
-cinder shot
This is because they are so strong as power weapons that it doesn’t matter too much what you spawn with, these will always be great options.
Here is the deal, at least from my arguments:
- AR starts and BR starts play very different and thats an undeniable fact
- AR starts allow for more diversity of guns used
- BR starts allow for quicker time to an engagement from spawn since you have a long range gun and can effectively fight at longer distances
- AR starts mean more map movement out of necessity due to not being able to automatically engage with enemies at long distances
- BR starts lessen the importance of map weapons due to the BR being so strong (this isn’t necessarily a con as some people don’t want to as easily be steam rolled once a team takes the map weapons)
Now i argue that i prefer AR starts but i get why people prefer BR starts. Saying that the game basically plays the same with BR and AR starts doesn’t make sense. Why would you be using weapons the same ammount when each start has different strengths? If you still use everything the exact same why are you out here arguing for one starter weapon over the other?
Why can’t both sides come together and just admit the differences and then argue for multiple playlists? Thats what i want. 343 please give us ranked and social AR and ranked and social BR starts playlists. That way people can play how they like and still enjoy ranked and social modes.
I’m baffled by the people that disagree with the evidence shown clearly in video form.
This is like a religious cult mindset where the AR is the deity
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Again i gave my reasoning and you talking about people worshiping a gun; the BR can do no wrong even when in past games it was so overpowered and even killed more close range guns at close range.
I don’t get it. I argue to give you the modes you want and yet your only argument is “You are wrong and let me try to get 343 to force you to play with BR starts”.
And weapon use rates isn’t my only argument, its how the game plays different starting with a close range weapon over a long range weapon. But hey if you don’t want to agree to like different things and help me argue for both starts having their own playlists then 343 please don’t ever give us BR starts.
If i am honest, having to use precision weapon starts for 20 years has not made me fond of them. I think Halo thrived in spite of them and thats why AR starts were added to MCC and now in Infinite. If they got rid of AR starts comepletly i don’t think i would ever come back to Halo MP for any substantial length of time. Its just not the play style i want out of an arena shooter. I can’t be the only one who thinks this way and I am sure thats how BR start enthusiasts are.
If we got rid of BR starts comepletly would you want to play more? So stop denying how the guns play different and help me argue for more playlists.
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It will never stop being funny how people just use their own inability to make use of parts of the sandbox that we all know can and will easily dumpster a BR when used properly, but somehow its still the BR’s fault when they can’t or won’t make use of it.
Like people are honest to god trying to tell us that nah, actually the Stalker Rifle isn’t as worthwhile to pick up in BR starts despite the video evidence of how incredibly powerful it can be. They are just telling on themselves that they only find certain weapons valuable if they can’t be as effectively challenged by fresh spawns.
For the life of me I wish some of them would try justify AR starts without being completely disingenuous about how Utility starts play out and which weapons are usable.
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I was completely genuine and gave you the answers already to this question. But here ill restate it:
I use the stalker rifle less for these reasons:
-
I already have a ranged gun so getting one that at best is marginally better isn’t worth as much
-
Why push and put my self at risk to grab said marginally better gun
-
The BR can descope better than any other weapon due to its range, accuracy, and rate of fire so yeah it can easily, if used properly, descope and outkill the stalker rifle.
-
The BR is pretty dang easy to use with its large mag and near perfect accuracy and long range so why risk using an at best marginally better gun that can overheat fast, be descoped easily and more often by everyone since you all have BRs, and runs a much higher risk of overheating before the BR user has to reload?
So again more ignoring on the part of BR spawn proponents.
AR start people understand BR start people. We know and acknowledge why you like it and yes even i want you to have the BR start playlist you want. But until you stop saying that litterally everything is wrong, even facts about how the BR plays differently than the AR, then you will never understand us and maybe thats the point. You don’t seem to want to understand AR starts because you hate it.
Not sure why you hate a single gun so much that if there is a way to get both starts you would rather just kill the other. It just doesn’t make since to ignore points people make by saying we are just biased when you are biased to. We are all biased and the only way to move forward is to acknowledge the differences and then argue for both because as of now there is no way Infinite will survive without AR starts, i just don’t know anyone personally who prefers BR starts and we would all stop playing for the most part if they got rid of them. (Also i know you might have forgotten but again im not bad with the BR, i am way better with the BR and am Onyx so i know how BR starts play, i am not ignorant to it).
I would probably delete the game because AR starts isn’t fun in any capacity
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See and thats how many AR start people feel so the only way to keep what little population Infinite has is to add more playlists not delete them.
Can we at least agree to like different things and then work towards helping get what each other wants?
I am willing to help you BR start people out but if its mutually assured destruction you want then neither gets the Halo we want because i don’t think Halo can survive losing too many more people and that sucks for all of us.
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But WHY don’t people like BR starts? Nobody has ever really explained it in a way that isn’t just “a lot of less skilled players can’t use a BR and need an AR to have a chance”
Church up the wording however you can, that’s what it translates to.
Nobody has ever been able to explain what about AR starts is fun comparatively.
And my core point is that the “variety” argument is and always has been bogus.
I’ll meet you in a neutral zone and say I think in FFA modes AR starts can work, since with all the chaos the AR and Sidekick are very efficient spawn weapons. My issue is with any team mode, from Doubles on, because I just don’t like having to run in straight lines hosing people down and being unable to help teammates who are in trouble.
I already did all of this…
The game just plays different. If it doesn’t then why argue for either start?!
AR starts force you to, on average, have closer engagements because you don’t spawn with basically infinite range. This is the honestly the biggest thing.
You already said you like being able to shoot at people right from spawn and be effective. AR start people just want you to have to move and be relatively close to help or engage. It pulls people closer thus allowing for those close range map wepaons to be used more often.
Again this is all true, has been said before, and people say this isn’t a valid reason to prefer AR over BR starts.
No one is saying the AR is a better gun, that would be a point you could say is factually wrong because the BR is the better gun. But what people enjoy is subjective and the reasons above are valid.
I will give you some people might not like BRs because they are bad with them but thats not me. I am so much better with a BR but still prefer how AR starts play because i find it more fun.
Now i don’t know the scientific or philosophical reasons people find certain things fun and that is probably beyond human comprehension so all i can tell you is why i AR starts are different and that i like the AR starts over BR starts.
So again ill extend my hand out, @M1STA_WU1FY , and say lets work together to get more from 343.
343 please give us both social and ranked in both AR/SK and BR starts. You can’t please everyone by deleting or excluding playlist so adding more is the only way forward.
If a .95s TTK is only “marginally” better than a 1.57s TTK in your book then forget being disingenuous you’re just looking at the sky and telling me its tye-dye.
The fact you actually believe that is a “marginal” difference makes it worse. Its these incredible exaggerations that make the AR stan position lack any real foundation. I have yet to see any AR start supporter actually support their argument without handwaving away huge swaths of the sandbox both past or present or fundamentally misrepresenting how precision starts play out such as the ole “BR starts are just camping at range”
The “precision weapon meta”(aka Halo) doesn’t disappear just because you spawn players with close range weapons, a small subset of bad weapons don’t become better because you spawn players with close range weapon, ranged/versatile weapons don’t stop being sought after because you spawn players with close range weapons.
The only fundamental difference between Auto Starts and Utility starts, is that Auto starts are a fundamentally shallower experience that is incredibly prone to snowballing. You will never escape “the precision meta” without fundamentally altering what Halo is or otherwise deleting scoped headshot weapons entirely.
Its the same story whether the auto weapon is good (H4, H5, Infinite, CE) or bad (H2, H3, Reach) the quirks of Halo’s design, the (relatively) slower movement, the console friendly aim assist, the emphasis on teamplay necessitate a versatile spawn weapon to ensure matches are competitive, and by competitive I mean, not as likely to be decided in the first couple minutes.
Halo players figured this out 20 years ago when Pistol starts became the norm in CE and Utility weapons of various shapes and sizes have always, always formed the core of the game whether certain players or even devs wanted them to.
Its at best marginally better because the BR can easily counter it by descoping, having a larger mag, and the SR overheats very fast so if im not mistaken missing just 1 or 2 shots will cause the gun to overheat before a kill is even possible if going for the lowest TTK.
Maybe i am just good with a BR and bad with a SK or maybe since even when others use the SK and i have a BR and i get shot first but still get the kill or make the other person retreat 9/10 times the BR is just an easier to use and better gun for most situations.
Its at best marginally better due to the circumstances required to use it. No one is out here saying the BR kills faster than the SK, you are using a straw man to try to prove your point. I’m saying outside of the vacuum of a perfect kill with the target standing still and them or their teammates not returning fire, yes the BR is hands down the gun i am choosing and the better gun.
And anyone with a functioning brain knows the BR doesn’t become bad or the precision weapon meta disappears when AR starts are a thing. This is just another straw man. What actually happens is the BR stays great but now has less ammo and fewer people have them. Thus my argument about on average engagement distances is still true.
You are just choosing to ignore the differences while trying to discredit the other opinion when that’s not necessary. Just ask for more modes not less. What will it take for BR start people to realize this?
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