Bots in Customs and other offline goodies.

Offline players need love too. Sometimes a storm can knock down telephone poles, while the power stays intact, or you could just be stuck at cheap hotel with bad internet.

Halo 4 didn’t float my boat offline-wise.

My favorite best offline FPSs are Reach and Cod: Ghosts. Mostly Ghosts, because it’s newer and has the best offline matchmaking simulation I have ever seen. The bots play like humans, and it helps my noob friends and I practice and learn the maps while we’re waiting for the internet to come back on. And Squads is just amazing with it’s rank system connections to MM.

I know that Spartan bots would be harder to program, because of platforming and forged maps and such, but it’s far from impossible, and would be a great way to test our Forge maps when no friends are online or the internet goes out.

Firefight is a must, so I won’t even get into that. If Spartan Ops season 2 is in, then please, for the love of God, make it playable offline.

My hard on is for these bots, but what other ideas do you have for some great fun when playing offline?

I really want Bots in halo they would help the new people learn or training, a lot of my friends and family will not play online because its to hard. I also would like to play with my younger brother, my sister, my girlfriend who are not hardcore players.

> My hard on is for these bots, but what other ideas do you have for some great fun when playing offline?

Bots. You pretty much hit the nail on the head, one of Halo’s long-standing deficiencies has been an over-reliance on the double-headed hydra of a simplistic campaign formula equivalent to any of the most rudimentary 90’s PC shooters and a multiplayer format ripped from the same era. We still haven’t hit the technical level of more advanced games like Unreal Tournament and I think that’s finally starting to become readily apparent with the more recent games. There are far too many walls between game modes and more being built around the new additions (firefight and SOPS.) Halo needs to integrate, and a prime driver of that could easily be some kind of bot play.

I heard we can’t have bots because of forge, why not just restrict them to the default maps so the offline players can play MM, that’s something right?

When I had no live I would always play gow because there were bots in MM.

> I heard we can’t have bots because of forge, why not just restrict them to the default maps so the offline players can play MM, that’s something right?

Why even have forge if it keeps us from a hugely significant gameplay advance? All the “community” maps in the world can’t possibly compensate for a much more limited spectrum of game design.

I would absolutely love bots in custom games to help fill up a lobby. They would be dropped when a player joins or added when one leaves. Not in matchmaking though of course.

> I would absolutely love bots in custom games to help fill up a lobby. They would be dropped when a player joins or added when one leaves. Not in matchmaking though of course.

Why not? Let’s say you have a game of BTB. Why not add to the player count with additional AI units? Say you get an ordnance drop and you can either call in your usual grab bag of weapons, a light vehicle perhaps, OR an Elite that’s able to navigate the map to where the fighting’s good. Killing the elite of course wouldn’t count towards any objective score, but it could still go for more ordnance points.

Or, you could have neutral AI’s around which you have to fight for a neutral objective. There’s the obvious application of bots (bot matches) but there are plenty of other supplemental uses you can put the AI’s to once you develop them.

> > I heard we can’t have bots because of forge, why not just restrict them to the default maps so the offline players can play MM, that’s something right?
>
> <mark>Why even have forge if it keeps us from a hugely significant gameplay advance? All the “community” maps in the world can’t possibly compensate for a much more limited spectrum of game design</mark>.

Did you seriously question the existence of forge? The greatest thing that happened to Halo and Custom Games? I shall destroy you with my hammer of dooooooooooooom! But yeah, bots would be cool…

Constantly suggested. Constantly shot down.

Halo has never been known for it’s strong AI (Firefight in Reach showed that) and it seems to have gotten worse with H4. Could it get better? Yes. But I only expect them to bring it back to par. Programming bots to even remotely act like people in MP?

Not to mention that due to pathing issues, bots could only ever be used on default maps.

> Constantly suggested. Constantly shot down.
>
> Halo has never been known for it’s strong AI (Firefight in Reach showed that) and it seems to have gotten worse with H4. Could it get better? Yes. But I only expect them to bring it back to par. Programming bots to even remotely act like people in MP?
>
> <mark>Not to mention that due to pathing issues, bots could only ever be used on default maps.</mark>

What if they made a tool in forge to make pathing for A.I? Im sure the advanced forgers would be very happy.

> > Constantly suggested. Constantly shot down.
> >
> > Halo has never been known for it’s strong AI (Firefight in Reach showed that) and it seems to have gotten worse with H4. Could it get better? Yes. But I only expect them to bring it back to par. Programming bots to even remotely act like people in MP?
> >
> > <mark>Not to mention that due to pathing issues, bots could only ever be used on default maps.</mark>
>
> What if they made a tool in forge to make pathing for A.I? Im sure the advanced forgers would be very happy.

It is VERY POSSIBLE, look at the StarCraft AIs, players have programed their actions and such, we should be able too! Not to mention that MS is more rich than Blizzard!
No matter what some of you guys say, it is VERY POSSIBLE to do what you guys have mentioned, many other games have done those…

> It is VERY POSSIBLE, look at the StarCraft AIs, players have programed their actions and such, we should be able too! Not to mention that MS is more rich than Blizzard!
> No matter what some of you guys say, it is VERY POSSIBLE to do what you guys have mentioned, many other games have done those…

I’m not saying it’s impossible.

Just improbable.

Not to mention that MS runs an entire company; a company at last I checked, has to funnel money from outside departments into the games department.

Not to mention that the AI’s in Starcraft don’t have to deal with the same level design that we have.

> > > I heard we can’t have bots because of forge, why not just restrict them to the default maps so the offline players can play MM, that’s something right?
> >
> > <mark>Why even have forge if it keeps us from a hugely significant gameplay advance? All the “community” maps in the world can’t possibly compensate for a much more limited spectrum of game design</mark>.
>
> Did you seriously question the existence of forge? The greatest thing that happened to Halo and Custom Games? I shall destroy you with my hammer of dooooooooooooom! But yeah, bots would be cool…

Well I did yah. It can be great fun to tool around in but look at what it’s gotten us, just a bit more variety in map choice several months after the release of each game. In a sense you can replicate the effect it’s had (outside forge communities) with free DLC. And still you have to consider that forge hasn’t necessarily gotten us is any better maps. I’ve still to find a community map I like anywhere near as much as Sandtrap or Terminal, or hell even Damnation, and neither does this is simply my problem since I don’t believe there has ever been a truly popular community map (liked by some, sure, but none has stayed with the franchise except for the griffball court.)

I’d be sad to see forge go, but I do not think it’s a wise feature to keep if (and only if) it’s holding us back from much more substantial features, especially multiplayer AI’s.

> Not to mention that MS runs an entire company; a company at last I checked, has to funnel money from outside departments into the games department.

Funny, every report I’ve seen says the Xbox division is one of the more profitable parts of the company (relatively speaking and for the last few years at least which is probably why MS is so intent on rebranding every service they can with the xbox logo.) But what is direct information good for, pretend corporate intrigue is so much more fun! :stuck_out_tongue:

> > > > I heard we can’t have bots because of forge, why not just restrict them to the default maps so the offline players can play MM, that’s something right?
> > >
> > > <mark>Why even have forge if it keeps us from a hugely significant gameplay advance? All the “community” maps in the world can’t possibly compensate for a much more limited spectrum of game design</mark>.
> >
> > Did you seriously question the existence of forge? The greatest thing that happened to Halo and Custom Games? I shall destroy you with my hammer of dooooooooooooom! But yeah, bots would be cool…
>
> Well I did yah. It can be great fun to tool around in but look at what it’s gotten us, just a bit more variety in map choice several months after the release of each game. In a sense you can replicate the effect it’s had (outside forge communities) with free DLC. And still you have to consider that forge hasn’t necessarily gotten us is any better maps. I’ve still to find a community map I like anywhere near as much as Sandtrap or Terminal, or hell even Damnation, and neither does this is simply my problem since I don’t believe there has ever been a truly popular community map (liked by some, sure, but none has stayed with the franchise except for the griffball court.)
>
> I’d be sad to see forge go, but I do not think it’s a wise feature to keep if (and only if) it’s holding us back from much more substantial features, especially multiplayer AI’s.

I’d like for you to think about the ramifications of what you’re suggesting. You are suggesting to get rid of Forge, Halo’s only map creation/editing tool, just to get AI in multiplayer.

Well, to start off Halo’s AI has been notoriously horrible in Halo 4 and never was really impressive enough in the previous games to warrant the removal of a map creator. FF Versus, were players could play with and against AI never caught on in Reach, suggesting there isn’t high demand in this.

Second, you would be destroying an entire community. There is still a large Forge/Custom Games community in Halo 4, despite the removal and lack of new features. This speaks testament to Forge’s positive effect on the Halo community, something AI in multiplayer simply would never come close to. The plethora of custom game variants from Speed Halo to Jump Rope to Fat Kid could never be replaced by AI in multiplayer on Default maps.

> Well, to start off Halo’s AI has been notoriously horrible in Halo 4 and never was really impressive enough in the previous games to warrant the removal of a map creator. FF Versus, were players could play with and against AI never caught on in Reach, suggesting there isn’t high demand in this.

And if you want to go that way I can say that community maps have been notoriously underwhelming. You might even consider them matchmaking filler that simply delutes the stronger-dev developed content. Even at the price of destroying a “community” (which would be much more fair to characterize as a demographic, relative to the total population forgers aren’t numerous) improving the game even on the simple terms of cutting the fluff may be worth it.

But that’s almost beside the point. If you develop multiplayer AI’s as I suggested you’re doing something very different than ramming what we have now into standard gametypes. That’s an incredibly Bungie approach that can be definitively shown to be far from what is possible for an FPS. I point you all the way back to the 90’s and Unreal Tournament One. If 343 is able to deliver JUST THAT in elite and promethean form as a supplement to certain gametypes they would have easily done more for Halo than forge has over its entire lifespan. It would open up a new format for gameplay and if we can keep forge tools around to further drive that forward then great. BUT in comparing what map variants have given us versus this incredible potential (see. Titanfall) it’s hard to say “let’s keep the forge community!” when the game they’re working in is made all the worse by the restrictions they impose on its design.

And of course I hope you see that my entire argument here is based simply on the speculation that “Forge is holding us back.” I’m not saying that it DEFINITELY is, I don’t think anyone here can say that without inside knowledge of one kind or another. What I am instead arguing is that we consider carefully what we ask for since there MAY be other costs associated with it. Forge is fun, but I can’t keep asking for it if it’s behind our continued inability to meet 90’s gaming standards.