Bosses should be in Halo 5

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Halo has had an interesting history with bosses.

In Halo 2 there were 3 bosses:

The Heretic Leader Elite Sesa Rafume, The Prophet of Regret, and Tartarus.

In Halo 3 there was 1 boss:

343 Guilty Spark.

Should Halo 5 have any bosses? Such as a Giant Promethean? Maybe a War Sphinx? Or maybe the Didact (Didact should have been a boss in Halo 4 instead of a lame crappy quicktime event)? And maybe the bosses will be more stratagey based like Metroid bosses? Since there were ex-Metroid employees working on Halo 4.

Examples of bosses working well in FPS games:
-Dark Samus in Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
-Space Pirate Berzerker Overlord in Metroid Prime 3 Corription

2

> 2533274952179659;1:
> Halo has had an interesting history with bosses.
> In Halo 2 there were 3 bosses:
>
> The Heretic Leader Elite Sesa Rafume, The Prophet of Regret, and Tartarus.
>
> In Halo 3 there was 1 boss:
>
> 343 Guilty Spark.
>
> Should Halo 5 have any bosses? Such as a Giant Promethean? Maybe a War Sphinx? Or maybe the Didact? And maybe the bosses will be more stratagey based like Metroid bosses? Since there were ex-Metroid employees working on Halo 4.

I like this Sounds like a great idea

3

> 2533274796029854;2:
> > 2533274952179659;1:
> > Halo has had an interesting history with bosses.
> > In Halo 2 there were 3 bosses:
> >
> > The Heretic Leader Elite Sesa Rafume, The Prophet of Regret, and Tartarus.
> >
> > In Halo 3 there was 1 boss:
> >
> > 343 Guilty Spark.
> >
> > Should Halo 5 have any bosses? Such as a Giant Promethean? Maybe a War Sphinx? Or maybe the Didact? And maybe the bosses will be more stratagey based like Metroid bosses? Since there were ex-Metroid employees working on Halo 4.
>
>
> I like this Sounds like a great idea

I concur

4

The Heretic Leader was actually a pretty good “boss” (more like a Mini-Boss to be honest). Was an actual challenge, yet fair. Required use of cover and thinking to defeat.

Regret was meh. Latching onto his chair and punching him a million times over and over until he threw you off and spawned a new wave of guards.

Tartarus was just awful. You basically just spammed at him after Johnson shot him, with little opposition from either him or his minions, until he eventually dies. Really all this “boss” does is waste the player’s time.

Guilty Spark wasn’t really a battle. More like you just shoot him a few times with the Laser until he explodes.

In all of Halo’s boss battles, only one was actually well designed. I don’t want the game to shoehorn in boss battles just for the sake of having them, I only want boss battles if they actually work well.

5

Halo2’s bosses are not great examples of how to execute them in an FPS.

There Heretic leader… Was a start BUT should still be only a tough Elite, not an Elite with invulnerable traits. Loved the holograms nonetheless.
Regret was on to something… A gauntlet of Elite on your way to knock down a very glass target. However repeating it over for the sake of difficulty setting was tedious instead of engaging.
Tartarus was too much bullet sponge and accidental lift floating… And waiting. Not much fun at all.
And 343 GS… He was the most interactive QTE to date!!!

I like boss bottles to be beautiful setpieces … Like getting into the last Banshees for Final Run and/or objects to dismantle like the Engine Room in CE… ODST managed to make most encounters feel like boss battles BUT Halo3 did not, though the Scarabs were mini-bosses to me.
Reach and Halo4 just kinda… Flowed. And though they had finalés and setpieces, none gave a sense of “bossness” like ODST managed to with their music and setpieces.

6

> 2533274819302824;4:
> The Heretic Leader was actually a pretty good “boss” (more like a Mini-Boss to be honest). Was an actual challenge, yet fair. Required use of cover and thinking to defeat.
>
> Regret was meh. Latching onto his chair and punching him a million times over and over until he threw you off and spawned a new wave of guards.
>
> Tartarus was just awful. You basically just spammed at him after Johnson shot him, with little opposition from either him or his minions, until he eventually dies. Really all this “boss” does is waste the player’s time.
>
> Guilty Spark wasn’t really a battle. More like you just shoot him a few times with the Laser until he explodes.
>
> In all of Halo’s boss battles, only one was actually well designed. I don’t want the game to shoehorn in boss battles just for the sake of having them, I only want boss battles if they actually work well.

Lol have you tryed to kill Regret on Legendary? So F******* hard!

7

Yes! I love Boss Battles, give variety to the game and lol kill the Didact pressing the Grenade ? No thanks…It would be great fight against a War Sphinx like a Scarab, Didact, Jul Mdama…

8

> 2533274885566464;7:
> Yes! I love Boss Battles, give variety to the game and lol kill the Didact pressing the Grenade ? No thanks…It would be great fight against a War Sphinx like a Scarab, Didact, Jul Mdama…

There’s no way to make a conventional boss fight against the Didact without superoverglorifying Chief and making it cheap, or superunderrepresenting the Didact, making it cheap.

Also, War Sphinxes can level continents. I don’t think you want to charge one with an Assault Rifle.

9

It would be cool if thing forerunner structure seen in the Halo E3 2013 trailer was an enemy and you had to take it down using the same tactics as you would taking down a scarab, only harder. The insides could possibly be a maze of shifting forerunner structures, and when you destroy its core, and its about to explode, instead of giving the player plenty of time you have to sprint, thruster and then slide to cover just as you see flames licking the battle field decimating it into a crisp.

scarabs were one of the most engaging enemies in Halo. They could deb taken down in so many ways. I hope they’re in Halo 5, or a forerunner equivalent like what i just described.

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> 2533274907934539;8:
> > 2533274885566464;7:
> > Yes! I love Boss Battles, give variety to the game and lol kill the Didact pressing the Grenade ? No thanks…It would be great fight against a War Sphinx like a Scarab, Didact, Jul Mdama…
>
>
> There’s no way to make a conventional boss fight against the Didact without superoverglorifying Chief and making it cheap, or superunderrepresenting the Didact, making it cheap.
>
> Also, War Sphinxes can level continents. I don’t think you want to charge one with an Assault Rifle.

Have you destroyed a Scarab with an Assult Rifle ? We have Rocket Launcher, even the MAC gun.
And yeah, there is some ways to kill the Didact, maybe with more Ally AI

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I´m Ok with that but it has to be very important to the plot, like halo 4’s didact but with more action.

12

As long as they’re not like bosses in destiny. The bosses in Halo 2 were dynamic and there were different strategies to beating each one of them while they berated you, and that was awesome. I hope they bring that back.

13

> 2533274819302824;4:
> The Heretic Leader was actually a pretty good “boss” (more like a Mini-Boss to be honest). Was an actual challenge, yet fair. Required use of cover and thinking to defeat.
>
> Regret was meh. Latching onto his chair and punching him a million times over and over until he threw you off and spawned a new wave of guards.
>
> Tartarus was just awful. You basically just spammed at him after Johnson shot him, with little opposition from either him or his minions, until he eventually dies. Really all this “boss” does is waste the player’s time.
>
> Guilty Spark wasn’t really a battle. More like you just shoot him a few times with the Laser until he explodes.
>
> In all of Halo’s boss battles, only one was actually well designed. I don’t want the game to shoehorn in boss battles just for the sake of having them, I only want boss battles if they actually work well.

I totally agree if bosses add something to the game and work well they should do it. If not leave well alone.

14

Yeah it should but not like in halo 3 because the boss was awful so anticlimatic
It must be like in halo 2 with tartarus that was an entertaining boss battle

15

> 2533274952179659;1:
> Halo has had an interesting history with bosses.
> In Halo 2 there were 3 bosses:
>
> The Heretic Leader Elite Sesa Rafume, The Prophet of Regret, and Tartarus.
>
> In Halo 3 there was 1 boss:
>
> 343 Guilty Spark.
>
> Should Halo 5 have any bosses? Such as a Giant Promethean? Maybe a War Sphinx? Or maybe the Didact? And maybe the bosses will be more stratagey based like Metroid bosses? Since there were ex-Metroid employees working on Halo 4.

there was the boss battle against 2 scarabs in halo 3 and yes bosses should return. boss battle against diadact with chief and his old squad

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This is my topic, wait, I wrote some stuff. Let me copy it in. ;p

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Agreed. I like Bossbattles, too - but I also know they are pretty hard to create. And if you do it wrong, they suck. Also a lot of people have other skills - which means the boss needs to be designed for more than one “type of player”.
I thought Halo 2 was the only game with bosses. Didn’t know that 343 Ball was meant as boss in Halo 3 - more something that belongs to the storyline. It’s difficulty was nealry zero. So I thought it was something like a “rhetoric boss”.

Halo 2 had some Bosses, but they were also not the best Bosses ever. Exept Tartarus I would count them as “Small”. I analysed a lot of bosses in videogames, over R-Type and Descent over MDK up to games like Half Life. It was a long time ago, but I think I still remember.

There are shematic more types of Bosses that could work good:
Main/Major:

  • the Boss As Structure
  • the Running Boss
  • the Boss Battle
    Small:
  • the Semi-Boss-Character
  • the Miniboss

A Semi-Boss-Character is a character/enemy with a bit more HP and maybe more damage. Like that heretic guy in Halo 2 or some characters in CoD Black Ops 2.

A Miniboss is similar, but mostly it uses other weapons and properties – a good example are some fighters in Mortal Kombat, if you play the Arcade Ladder.

But let me explain the three Mainboss-types:

The Boss As Structure is mostly a big vehicle, like a scarab or something like that. It also can be a big Alien or Dragon or whatever.
It has a lot of different weapons and some weak points, that has to be destroyed. If you destroy one weakpoint, the Boss might change style and weapons. Often it gets smaller, if you bash it, until it explodes. Very often used in older two dimensional games like R-Type.

The Running Boss is mostly a character, that changes vehicle or weapon, after you defeat him. This also can be used as a hunt or he might appear in more than one mission/level of the game. This is a more modern Boss-Type – and a bit more easy to create, because it doen’t need to be “That One Big fight.”

The Boss Battle, or I call it: Real Boss is a strong enemy with special properties in a surrounding that is well prepared for a battle. This fights can take long, which also creates the risk to create a boring part. To avoid that, the boss has to change its behavior in changing weapon, style or use vehicles. Also he can call for support.
This is for sure the most difficult type of boss to create. Something like the supreme discipline for gamemakers. It is a big risk and a hard job, but can push the subjective value of a game skyhigh.
(A lot of people I know said over the movie (!) lord of the rings: There is missing a Boss Battle at the end of the third part.)

I made a list of things that has to be minded, if you want to create a real good boss battle. A bit chaotic, because it was some time ago:

General, including Small Bosses:

  • A Boss should not attack you w/o warning – especially not if he deals a lot of damage – or even worse: He has an instant kill weapon.

  • If you fight a Boss, it is good, if you can’t go away of it/leave the room/area/arena – otherwise it won’t feel like a real boss. For Smaller Bosstypes it’s alright.

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For Main/Major Bosses:

  • A Boss needs a got introduction, if you want to create an epic fight. You should know: This is a Boss! He might test it’s weapon or show you it’s power, before the fight comes hot.

Fighting against a Boss, mostly Major Bosses:

  • An instant kill weapon/projectile has to be slow and well seen. Or it needs a warning, before it is fired – otherwise you create a brickwall.

  • The surrounding has to fit for the battle. Too small areas are brickwalls or messes, to big ones will cause the fact, that you feel to save, if you can run away.

  • Saveplaces: Depends – it’s a very controvers discussion: Should there be a place, where you are totally save of the boss? I say: Depends to the rest. Very hard to say in general. I am more a fan of spots, where you are not one hundred percent safe, but if the Boss attacks there you get a warning. This could be a spot, where the Boss can only reach with a special weapon. Also it can be that way, that he spawns small enemyies, which can you attack there.
    A third way to create a not hundred percent saveplace is an active enviroment.

  • A Bossbattle should take some time. If there is a way to kill the Boss instantly, a lot of people will “skip” it.

  • If it takes, to long, it gets boring, so the Boss battle needs to vary during the fight. It is a very old trick to change the behavior and weapons of the boss, if you damage it a bit. Like: After five hits, he loses his Rifle, or something like that … after 500 Hitpoints his Maingun explode.

  • The boss should make breaks in bashing your head, if you are low on health. This is not very realistic, but I played a few games, where the boss is “soften” that way. If it is not to obviously it feels great. He might not hold the fire, but use a weak weapon, that can be avoided.

  • Health: Especially in long Bossbattles your guy needs a way to get healed, theoretically endless often. There could be spawning health boxes somewhere – maybe choked by time: Like every 25 seconds a healthbox somewhere in that area. Same with ammo. Imagine you fought very well but nearly at the end you messed it up. Now you have to lose only because of you don’t have missiles and health? That’s unfair, because the most of the time you were good.

  • Especially for Halo I suggest to add more ways to fight the boss: Sniperrifles, melee, grenades or something like that. I was dissapointed in Halo 3 that the Scarab could only be destroyed by killing it’s maincore. Sure, there were a few ways to reach it. But it should be killable after five hundred hits with the tank, too.
    Or at least, there should be an altered way to destroy it.

  • Skrtipted Death: A Boss needs a scripted death, there is no way around it. Even better, if his death triggers something: Finding a key for example. But I personally like more that thing: Trigger a self-destruction.

  • Shelling the Boss should never be useless. Even if you fire on a Walking Alien Battleship with a handgun, it should at least lower it’s own firerate against you. What is cooler than fireing on the Boss while you are running from one position to another?!

  • Breathing Times: A lot of people can be very good for a long time, so some Bosses don’t have breathing times. But after throwing everything against the Boss, the most people are tired. It is even worse, if you lose on or two times. That will create a frustration. A Boss needs to make breaks; like it has to reload it’s own weapon, or retread to do something else. In this time, a player could run from one position to another w/o a major danger, reload it’s weapon or seek ammo or health. In this time the boss should be protected; nothing worse to killing a boss in his inactive stage. It might even feel like cheating.

  • Fighting Alone? Yes, if you fight a real Boss, you need to do the job alone – or it might not feel like your work. A boss is not an epic big, battle. A Boss is a duel.
    But It can be also used that way: If you are low on health, or the fight goes to long, you can get help by allies. Even better if you get weapon drops or something like that, if you can’t defeat the boss after – for example 7 minutes.

  • Difficulty: A lot of other aspects flow into this point, but it is the thing! If it is to easy, it is no boss – if it is to hard, it is a brickwall.
    A Boss should feel harder than it is, but w/o creating the feeling, he let you win! If you totally suck or make capital mistakes: It should be your end. Simple as that.
    You should have the feeling: I done it for real! I done it alone! I didn’t cheat!
    It realy helps, if a boss is easy to psych in its behavior, but yet hard to fight. In some games a Boss flames around and says directly, which weapon or danger he will trigger next.
    Like: “Like a Napalm-Missile, Punk?” Sometimes there is a friend that warns you: Like: “What out, he is using his Napalm-Missile." – but this isn’t so great, because it is a one on one duel – this owuld damage the feeling: You done it alone!
    A good thing might also be: Give the Boss some not leathal weapons, that throw you around or blind you – or something like that. This can keep up the pressure w/o blowing up the difficulty through the sky.

  • Deaths: You should not die more than around 1,5x more than in other levelparts, or people might start to hate it. The probability to die should not rise in comparision to other levels/missions/gameparts. Even if it should be a hard boss: It should never be a playerkiller. The effects and the feeling to fight it should change, not the probability to die! This is like the main point.

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Storyline Aspects:

  • A Boss should be a Main Character or a well known Enemy; if something never seen appears people might think: “What is this? Why should I fight this? Is it that hard? And why?” This never works well. The only exeption seems to be the sea beast in the latest Turok Game. But it is realy important for the relationship between the two main protagonists, so it doesn’t realy count as exeption.

  • To push the tension for a Real Boss Battle: There are two ways:
    The first one is the duel-style. It is quiet, only you and the Boss. High Noon.
    The other one is if the place around goes up somehow, or you are on a vehicle that is going down or something like that. This can create a climax in the tension graph, especially if you still have to escape after the battle. This second version can create even more tension, than the first, but it is also more difficult to use: If you fight toi long, w/o a timelimit the danger of the exploding area around you gets to a subjective zero.
    I personaly would do it that way: The area around you is already going up and collapsing. If the Boss goes up, after you defeated it, it catalyses the world collide and you have to run now even faster.

  • It is always better, if you realy realy hate the Boss Guy, that will create more subjective action and a sharp determination. Nothing worse that you have the feeling to do something wrong during you fight a Boss.

  • If you lose, it is not only your end. This might fit into a real high noon duel, but it is always better, if you have to do something bigger. Finishing your mission, save a target.
    Suprisely “Revenge” alone is a bad thing. If the Boss is down, you feel like nothing is better. It works only if you have to revenge something and save something. Avenger-Style.

  • Endboss? After the epic boss, battle, should it be the end of the game? Depends. I always like the part if you still have to escape from something.

>>>>>

Here a small list of aspects for a real last mission/level:
(Halo 4 lacked, the other Campaigns were alright, even Spartan Operations)

W/O Boss:

  • Epic Battle: The name says it. Big armies, tons of soldiers and vehicles. But you need a good primary goal, or it lacks something.
  • All In: A Mission were all enemies, fractions, weapons and so on are used. Can be combined with other aspects, or it feels empty.

With Boss:

  • Defeat Boss: Kill a Boss and it’s over? Or not?

Running Parts:

  • Hunt: Hunt your primary enemy down. After he lost all hits power and his supermega Hovertank he tries to run away. After him, now!
  • Escape: Run away, after you are done with your primary, or you get deatomized! Hell. Stop reading this, run out of the map! Sure, this can be combined with other aspects, too. I like it in combination with the boss and a timer, that uses more than enaugh time, but creates pressure.

I personaly never saw a combination of all aspects, but it is possible:
All In, with an Epic Battle. Defeat the boss during the place around you melts and explodes, and then run away. While you do that, you have to finish the fleeing defeated Boss, before he can do something evil, like firing a last missile, or something like that. After that, you have to run even faster.

;-D

>>>>>
I’m not a Halo Fan, and I dunno that gamestyle very well. I can only talk over it general. I noticed, that there were good escape stages in Halo. Very useful.

If you have any good or/and more specific ideas, I think this is a good place to say them.

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That’s the super short version. Hope it is still understandable - a lot of things were cut :wink: