Boss Refresh My Butt

Hey fellow waypointers. I just wanted to raise the question of the warzone ‘boss refresh’ and how it literally has no meaning. The whole point of the boss refresh was for every game you played, there would be different bosses as opposed to the same bosses every game. What they have done after the firefight update is made warzone just as predictable as it was before. The only difference in bosses for the maps are the first 1-2 bosses, the ones usually after 6:00 minutes into the game stay the same every game you play. For example, on Raid on Apex 7, have you seen Tankmaster Rok spawn since the update? Knight Strategeos on A.R.C? Or even Pilot Dalaman, I even miss him too. They said the whole point of having a boss refresh was to change the bosses every game and make it less predictable to have a better playing experience. They literally have changed the bosses, and kept it that way, so was really was the major change? I would rather have the older bosses anyway. Take a look at noctus. For gods sake the Grunt Jockey spawns inside the monument. Who at 343 actually thought that was a good idea? I wanna hear the thoughts of other people to see if I’m not the only one that is sick of the same bosses over and over again.

Yeah most legendary bosses were just changed and don’t rotate. I hate how the Grunt Goblins are the new Warden Eternals-- Overused and boring to fight.

Legendary bosses should rotate just like standard bosses do. Grunt Goblin after Grunt Goblin every game gets stale

> 2533275007059966;2:
> Yeah most legendary bosses were just changed and don’t rotate. I hate how the Grunt Goblins are the new Warden Eternals-- Overused and boring to fight.
>
> Legendary bosses should rotate just like standard bosses do. Grunt Goblin after Grunt Goblin every game gets stale

At least people actually tried fighting the warden eternal, I’ve spent entire warzone matches where no one even gets close to the grunt goblin and I can’t blame them. Its a bullet sponge that blows up vehicles and takes out infantry alike as if they’re made of paper, all for a measly 100 points.

> 2535414140380568;1:
> Hey fellow waypointers. I just wanted to raise the question of the warzone ‘boss refresh’ and how it literally has no meaning. The whole point of the boss refresh was for every game you played, there would be different bosses as opposed to the same bosses every game. What they have done after the firefight update is made warzone just as predictable as it was before. The only difference in bosses for the maps are the first 1-2 bosses, the ones usually after 6:00 minutes into the game stay the same every game you play. For example, on Raid on Apex 7, have you seen Tankmaster Rok spawn since the update? Knight Strategeos on A.R.C? Or even Pilot Dalaman, I even miss him too. They said the whole point of having a boss refresh was to change the bosses every game and make it less predictable to have a better playing experience. They literally have changed the bosses, and kept it that way, so was really was the major change? I would rather have the older bosses anyway. Take a look at noctus. For gods sake the Grunt Jockey spawns inside the monument. Who at 343 actually thought that was a good idea? I wanna hear the thoughts of other people to see if I’m not the only one that is sick of the same bosses over and over again.

The idea behind it (to add more variety was quite good.) However, a few of the new boss spawns were pretty poorly chosen (spawning in the monument, temple etc), some of the bosses could use a bit of a nerf (Noctus Mantis, Goblin), some of the mooks for bosses need a nerf (Soldier’s with Hydras on Darkstar protecting a Soldier with a Hydra?) and there wasn’t a reason that the old bosses shouldn’t have been left in the rotation. Instead of it always being the first goblin on apex there could be a 25% chance it’s the goblin, 25% chance it’s Tankmaster Rok, and two other bosses making up the other 50%. All-in-All the refresh is a step in the right direction, however it didn’t go far enough in some areas and needs some tweaking in others.

Every match on escape from arc always results as the goblin being a last resort for points. Despite it spawning in at the half way point

Here’s the reason I don’t like the boss refresh.

Before the refresh…
Controlling minor bases gives you short paths to minor bosses, and long paths to legendary bosses.
Controlling the central major base gave you short paths to major bosses, and short paths to cut off the minor bases access to legendary bosses.
These two things coupled with knowing the boss spawn times and locations every single game let players strategize attacks without needing mics and friends to plan. All you had to know was where to be and when, and if you knew the map, you knew where and when to be.

After the refresh…
Now, sometimes bosses are at random locations, and other times they are just ridiculous bullet sponges.
Random locations gives you 30 seconds to plan an effective attack.
Rok could be taken down alone in 2-3 minutes. Most new Legendary bosses can’t be killed by a solo player due to quick health/shield regeneration.

I doubt the result was intended. What happened is solo players and small parties lost some effectiveness, which lowers the fun factor for any party of 4 or less.

This is all just my personal opinion.

> 2533274921205548;6:
> Here’s the reason I don’t like the boss refresh.
>
> Before the refresh…
> Controlling minor bases gives you short paths to minor bosses, and long paths to legendary bosses.
> Controlling the central major base gave you short paths to major bosses, and short paths to cut off the minor bases access to legendary bosses.
> These two things coupled with knowing the boss spawn times and locations every single game let players strategize attacks without needing mics and friends to plan. All you had to know was where to be and when, and if you knew the map, you knew where and when to be.
>
> After the refresh…
> Now, sometimes bosses are at random locations, and other times they are just ridiculous bullet sponges.
> Random locations gives you 30 seconds to plan an effective attack.
> Rok could be taken down alone in 2-3 minutes. Most new Legendary bosses can’t be killed by a solo player due to quick health/shield regeneration.
>
> I doubt the result was intended. What happened is solo players and small parties lost some effectiveness, which lowers the fun factor for any party of 4 or less.
>
> This is all just my personal opinion.

Thanks for the feedback.

There is a fine balance with difficulty. Balancing around 8 players in Firefight and assuming certain bosses would go down quicker with 24 people fighting that same boss is definitely not what happened.

With smaller groups and solo players it takes too much coordination right now and is something I’m looking into.

this … OP u have summed up everything ive felt about this update…

honestly, is it that hard to program dynamic boss spawning or something? the only differences u notice is the variation among the first 2 basic bosses that spawn in every map…

where are baron sraom, pilot dalamen, captain wamik and tankmaster rok gone?? apex and arc are now so boring cuz we get that grunt mech every time.

also, is there any reason to completely remove the regular warden?? noctus now has no hunter boss spawns

srsly, by the way they worded their wzff pre release post it sounded that every game wud have random spawns but now? ugh

[deleted]

Boss refresh your butt?

Which bosses spawn in/at/around your butt currently?

> 2533274825821963;7:
> > 2533274921205548;6:
> > Here’s the reason I don’t like the boss refresh.
> >
> > Before the refresh…
> > Controlling minor bases gives you short paths to minor bosses, and long paths to legendary bosses.
> > Controlling the central major base gave you short paths to major bosses, and short paths to cut off the minor bases access to legendary bosses.
> > These two things coupled with knowing the boss spawn times and locations every single game let players strategize attacks without needing mics and friends to plan. All you had to know was where to be and when, and if you knew the map, you knew where and when to be.
> >
> > After the refresh…
> > Now, sometimes bosses are at random locations, and other times they are just ridiculous bullet sponges.
> > Random locations gives you 30 seconds to plan an effective attack.
> > Rok could be taken down alone in 2-3 minutes. Most new Legendary bosses can’t be killed by a solo player due to quick health/shield regeneration.
> >
> > I doubt the result was intended. What happened is solo players and small parties lost some effectiveness, which lowers the fun factor for any party of 4 or less.
> >
> > This is all just my personal opinion.
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> There is a fine balance with difficulty. Balancing around 8 players in Firefight and assuming certain bosses would go down quicker with 24 people fighting that same boss is definitely not what happened.
>
> With smaller groups and solo players it takes too much coordination right now and is something I’m looking into.

Definitely agree that the balance between WZFF and regular WZ is hard.
I don’t mean this next question disrespectfully at all, but why did you “assume certain bosses would go down quicker with 24 people fighting them?” Since launch I’ve never seen a boss have more than ~8 people fighting over it. Most often there aren’t more than 4-6 players on a team that break away from the battle for the central base to attack the high-point-value bosses. The team that doesn’t have the central base will only send 3-4 players with the heaviest vehicles they can afford to the boss, while the other 8 storm the central base. The distraction of a legendary boss is a great opportunity for a team to capture the central base while the other team sends defenders away towards the boss. The only times I’ve ever observed a massive 12v12 clash for a boss is when the final legendary (now mythic) boss spawns, and the teams have been even enough all game that this boss will truly decide the winner.

P.S. SacredDiagram was me accidently signed in to another account. Not that that really matters lol.

You clearly misinterpreted their boss refresh. They never said, that I can recall, that from now on every boss would be random every game. They simply said they where changing some of the boss spawns.

I agree, I miss some of those old bosses. Don’t get me wrong, the Grunt Mech is sick but not game after game after game.

> 2533275007059966;2:
> Yeah most legendary bosses were just changed and don’t rotate. I hate how the Grunt Goblins are the new Warden Eternals-- Overused and boring to fight.
>
> Legendary bosses should rotate just like standard bosses do. Grunt Goblin after Grunt Goblin every game gets stale

yea but at least the grunt goblin says funny stuff sometimes

> 2533274825821963;7:
> > 2533274921205548;6:
> > Here’s the reason I don’t like the boss refresh.
> >
> > Before the refresh…
> > Controlling minor bases gives you short paths to minor bosses, and long paths to legendary bosses.
> > Controlling the central major base gave you short paths to major bosses, and short paths to cut off the minor bases access to legendary bosses.
> > These two things coupled with knowing the boss spawn times and locations every single game let players strategize attacks without needing mics and friends to plan. All you had to know was where to be and when, and if you knew the map, you knew where and when to be.
> >
> > After the refresh…
> > Now, sometimes bosses are at random locations, and other times they are just ridiculous bullet sponges.
> > Random locations gives you 30 seconds to plan an effective attack.
> > Rok could be taken down alone in 2-3 minutes. Most new Legendary bosses can’t be killed by a solo player due to quick health/shield regeneration.
> >
> > I doubt the result was intended. What happened is solo players and small parties lost some effectiveness, which lowers the fun factor for any party of 4 or less.
> >
> > This is all just my personal opinion.
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> There is a fine balance with difficulty. Balancing around 8 players in Firefight and assuming certain bosses would go down quicker with 24 people fighting that same boss is definitely not what happened.
>
> With smaller groups and solo players it takes too much coordination right now and is something I’m looking into.

Have you thought about more time limit in firefight?

> 2614366390849210;11:
> > 2533274825821963;7:
> > > 2533274921205548;6:
> > > Here’s the reason I don’t like the boss refresh.
> > >
> > > Before the refresh…
> > > Controlling minor bases gives you short paths to minor bosses, and long paths to legendary bosses.
> > > Controlling the central major base gave you short paths to major bosses, and short paths to cut off the minor bases access to legendary bosses.
> > > These two things coupled with knowing the boss spawn times and locations every single game let players strategize attacks without needing mics and friends to plan. All you had to know was where to be and when, and if you knew the map, you knew where and when to be.
> > >
> > > After the refresh…
> > > Now, sometimes bosses are at random locations, and other times they are just ridiculous bullet sponges.
> > > Random locations gives you 30 seconds to plan an effective attack.
> > > Rok could be taken down alone in 2-3 minutes. Most new Legendary bosses can’t be killed by a solo player due to quick health/shield regeneration.
> > >
> > > I doubt the result was intended. What happened is solo players and small parties lost some effectiveness, which lowers the fun factor for any party of 4 or less.
> > >
> > > This is all just my personal opinion.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback.
> >
> > There is a fine balance with difficulty. Balancing around 8 players in Firefight and assuming certain bosses would go down quicker with 24 people fighting that same boss is definitely not what happened.
> >
> > With smaller groups and solo players it takes too much coordination right now and is something I’m looking into.
>
>
> Definitely agree that the balance between WZFF and regular WZ is hard.
> I don’t mean this next question disrespectfully at all, but why did you “assume certain bosses would go down quicker with 24 people fighting them?” Since launch I’ve never seen a boss have more than ~8 people fighting over it. Most often there aren’t more than 4-6 players on a team that break away from the battle for the central base to attack the high-point-value bosses. The team that doesn’t have the central base will only send 3-4 players with the heaviest vehicles they can afford to the boss, while the other 8 storm the central base. The distraction of a legendary boss is a great opportunity for a team to capture the central base while the other team sends defenders away towards the boss. The only times I’ve ever observed a massive 12v12 clash for a boss is when the final legendary (now mythic) boss spawns, and the teams have been even enough all game that this boss will truly decide the winner.
>
> P.S. SacredDiagram was me accidently signed in to another account. Not that that really matters lol.

No disrespect at all. And I should have clarified better about the numbers because you’re right that there is usually only that large of a clash with the Mythic Bosses.

The general balance I tried to go with Legendary Bosses was 8-12 people fighting it. Which I have seen in a decent amount of Warzone games, but people also change the way they play. With the difficulty being harder, more people ignored them until necessary. When we play tested them we focused on making sure the encounters were fun, the right difficulty, and not broken which meant a decent amount of people would fight them. We have since changed our playtesting process to better target different questions and to get a better understanding. The goal was to focus the game around teamwork and not allow for one player to completely dominate a match.

Overall I feel the boss refresh was a success, but I also made some mistakes (Grunt Mech in the Monument). The community’s feedback has been great to better understand how Warzone is played and not necessarily how we designed it to be played. This allows us to adapt and make things better. I have a much better understanding of that balance between an individual player having a heroic moment and for an encounter to require some teamwork.