Proper boss battles are something 343i flirted around the edges with in H5 campaign with some of the Warden fights, but much of the key combat moments were frustratingly done through cut scene (Osiris vs. Jul 'Mdama, Chief vs. Locke, etc). What if instead Halo introduced a new gameplay element, the Zelda-style boss battle? These might take place a few times at key moments in the campaign. Imagine having to fight Gravemind after perhaps doing a little bit of puzzle solving/platforming in the Library which might function like one of the Temples. It would ironically be an old-school twist on Halo that would be something completely new for the series.
If that’s too much to stomach, Warzone is one of the places you can get an idea of how Boss Battles Lite might play out, which would still be a lot fun, and much less of a brand new element. I really like the inclusion of health bars for the more difficult enemies in Warzone, and honestly big bullet sponge bruisers are just fun to play, no matter how seemingly simple the loop. Those Grunt Goblins are just freaking cool - Totally awesome how deadly at close range they are, but also very mobile, so your always in a dance to stay at the optimum distance to unload your weapons, whatever they may be, while dodging tracers and other enemies. It’s very good. And no wonder, plenty, plenty of triple A shooters have made this fun. Halo did with Warzone and it’d be nice to see in Infinite’s campaign. Normal enemies would function the same way, but “boss-class” enemies would have health bars, be very OP etc. Imagine having to fight Goliaths dropped into the battlefield off the bottom of a Phantom. Or bring down a Blisterback in an encounter similar to engaging a spider tank in Destiny. I think this could work very well.
> 2533274838687111;1:
> Proper boss battles are something 343i flirted around the edges with in H5 campaign with some of the Warden fights, but much of the key combat moments were frustratingly done through cut scene (Osiris vs. Jul 'Mdama, Chief vs. Locke, etc). What if instead Halo introduced a new gameplay element, the Zelda-style boss battle? These might take place a few times at key moments in the campaign. Imagine having to fight Gravemind after perhaps doing a little bit of puzzle solving/platforming in the Library which might function like one of the Temples. It would ironically be an old-school twist on Halo that would be something completely new for the series.
>
> If that’s too much to stomach, Warzone is one of the places you can get an idea of how Boss Battles Lite might play out, which would still be a lot fun, and much less of a brand new element. I really like the inclusion of health bars for the more difficult enemies in Warzone, and honestly big bullet sponge bruisers are just fun to play, no matter how seemingly simple the loop. Those Grunt Goblins are just freaking cool - Totally awesome how deadly at close range they are, but also very mobile, so your always in a dance to stay at the optimum distance to unload your weapons, whatever they may be, while dodging tracers and other enemies. It’s very good. And no wonder, plenty, plenty of triple A shooters have made this fun. Halo did with Warzone and it’d be nice to see in Infinite’s campaign. Normal enemies would function the same way, but “boss-class” enemies would have health bars, be very OP etc. Imagine having to fight Goliaths dropped into the battlefield off the bottom of a Phantom. Or bring down a Blisterback in an encounter similar to engaging a spider tank in Destiny. I think this could work very well.
I’m hoping for Scarab boss battles with both Covenant & Banished variants.
Ditch the health bars and convey the health of the boss through damage states. The problem with many FPS bosses is they ultimately come down to shooting the boss until it dies. There’s not much variety in the Warzone bosses, and the examples we’ve seen throughout all of the Halo games are pretty similar. Especially when invulnerability phases are included such as Tartarus in Halo 2.
I swear I see so many suggestions that just want Halo to be Destiny. Scarabs are the mark for Halo boss battles. They’re not really bullet sponges because they’re as good as dead once you’re on board, but the puzzle comes from getting on board. That formula could be repeated over and over as well. Repeat the Scarab mechanics with a flying vehicle, new encounter with endless outcomes. There are so many different ways to take out the double scarabs in Halo 3, but I’ve never changed how I fight Warden, Tartarus, or Guilty Spark.
> 2533274795727848;2:
> > 2533274838687111;1:
> > Proper boss battles are something 343i flirted around the edges with in H5 campaign with some of the Warden fights, but much of the key combat moments were frustratingly done through cut scene (Osiris vs. Jul 'Mdama, Chief vs. Locke, etc). What if instead Halo introduced a new gameplay element, the Zelda-style boss battle? These might take place a few times at key moments in the campaign. Imagine having to fight Gravemind after perhaps doing a little bit of puzzle solving/platforming in the Library which might function like one of the Temples. It would ironically be an old-school twist on Halo that would be something completely new for the series.
> >
> > If that’s too much to stomach, Warzone is one of the places you can get an idea of how Boss Battles Lite might play out, which would still be a lot fun, and much less of a brand new element. I really like the inclusion of health bars for the more difficult enemies in Warzone, and honestly big bullet sponge bruisers are just fun to play, no matter how seemingly simple the loop. Those Grunt Goblins are just freaking cool - Totally awesome how deadly at close range they are, but also very mobile, so your always in a dance to stay at the optimum distance to unload your weapons, whatever they may be, while dodging tracers and other enemies. It’s very good. And no wonder, plenty, plenty of triple A shooters have made this fun. Halo did with Warzone and it’d be nice to see in Infinite’s campaign. Normal enemies would function the same way, but “boss-class” enemies would have health bars, be very OP etc. Imagine having to fight Goliaths dropped into the battlefield off the bottom of a Phantom. Or bring down a Blisterback in an encounter similar to engaging a spider tank in Destiny. I think this could work very well.
>
> I’m hoping for Scarab boss battles with both Covenant & Banished variants.
Dude a Lekgolo mega-colony animating some souped-up scarab machine would be a literal dream come true.
Mild spoilers for CE, H2, and H3 in this post.
I’ve stated a few times over the years, that I really hope boss battles are NOT approached the same way Bungie did with Tartarus and 343 in H2 and H3. Rather I hope they go back to how Halo CE approached events like this, as just large scale intense battles. Three immediate examples come to mind, but there are plenty more throughout CE’s campaign.
Boarding the Truth and Reconciliation. Wave after wave of Covenant are sent down the grav lift to stop you from boarding the ship. The action gets more and more intense as the music cranks up, until eventually the battle is punctuated by Hunters coming in to blast you and any marines you might have left. You can even include the battle in the loading dock afterwords as part of the “boss event”. I think this is the first time we’re ever introduced to hunters, who act as a heavy psuedo-boss in CE.
The Library, defending yourself at the door. Sure this happens multiple times in the level… but there’s one particular door set where you get closed in on each side in a very small room. The Flood music blasting, and you’re assaulted by a literal flood of enemies. If you don’t know how to time your grenades and shotgun shots, you’re toast.
The Battle of The Two Betrayals. You need a banshee to reach the final beam emitter. Problem… there’s a group of heavily armed flood, and a battalion of covenant there to stop you. Wraiths, ghosts, invisible elite flanks, jackal squads, grunt turret squads, hunters, EVERYTHING you can imagine has to be dealt with. This is probably the largest battle in CE, with the most variety of ways to approach it.
Can anyone tell me with a straight face that fighting Tartarus, 343, or the Warden were even remotely as fun as any of these battles?
> 2533274838687111;1:
> Proper boss battles are something 343i flirted around the edges with in H5 campaign with some of the Warden fights, but much of the key combat moments were frustratingly done through cut scene (Osiris vs. Jul 'Mdama, Chief vs. Locke, etc). What if instead Halo introduced a new gameplay element, the Zelda-style boss battle? These might take place a few times at key moments in the campaign. Imagine having to fight Gravemind after perhaps doing a little bit of puzzle solving/platforming in the Library which might function like one of the Temples. It would ironically be an old-school twist on Halo that would be something completely new for the series.
>
> If that’s too much to stomach, Warzone is one of the places you can get an idea of how Boss Battles Lite might play out, which would still be a lot fun, and much less of a brand new element. I really like the inclusion of health bars for the more difficult enemies in Warzone, and honestly big bullet sponge bruisers are just fun to play, no matter how seemingly simple the loop. Those Grunt Goblins are just freaking cool - Totally awesome how deadly at close range they are, but also very mobile, so your always in a dance to stay at the optimum distance to unload your weapons, whatever they may be, while dodging tracers and other enemies. It’s very good. And no wonder, plenty, plenty of triple A shooters have made this fun. Halo did with Warzone and it’d be nice to see in Infinite’s campaign. Normal enemies would function the same way, but “boss-class” enemies would have health bars, be very OP etc. Imagine having to fight Goliaths dropped into the battlefield off the bottom of a Phantom. Or bring down a Blisterback in an encounter similar to engaging a spider tank in Destiny. I think this could work very well.
I’m betting the fight with Escharum will be some sort of boss battle. And I would surprised if it has a few more in it as well.
> 2535447175857524;6:
> > 2533274838687111;1:
> > Proper boss battles are something 343i flirted around the edges with in H5 campaign with some of the Warden fights, but much of the key combat moments were frustratingly done through cut scene (Osiris vs. Jul 'Mdama, Chief vs. Locke, etc). What if instead Halo introduced a new gameplay element, the Zelda-style boss battle? These might take place a few times at key moments in the campaign. Imagine having to fight Gravemind after perhaps doing a little bit of puzzle solving/platforming in the Library which might function like one of the Temples. It would ironically be an old-school twist on Halo that would be something completely new for the series.
> >
> > If that’s too much to stomach, Warzone is one of the places you can get an idea of how Boss Battles Lite might play out, which would still be a lot fun, and much less of a brand new element. I really like the inclusion of health bars for the more difficult enemies in Warzone, and honestly big bullet sponge bruisers are just fun to play, no matter how seemingly simple the loop. Those Grunt Goblins are just freaking cool - Totally awesome how deadly at close range they are, but also very mobile, so your always in a dance to stay at the optimum distance to unload your weapons, whatever they may be, while dodging tracers and other enemies. It’s very good. And no wonder, plenty, plenty of triple A shooters have made this fun. Halo did with Warzone and it’d be nice to see in Infinite’s campaign. Normal enemies would function the same way, but “boss-class” enemies would have health bars, be very OP etc. Imagine having to fight Goliaths dropped into the battlefield off the bottom of a Phantom. Or bring down a Blisterback in an encounter similar to engaging a spider tank in Destiny. I think this could work very well.
>
> I’m betting the fight with Escharum will be some sort of boss battle. And I would surprised if it has a few more in it as well.
Yeah! This just reminded me of the fight against Tartarus which was absolutely a proper boss fight, at least on paper, but I feel it was a bit token since it’s so easy. Imagine that sequence but with difficulty scaled up to like Dark Souls. Now that’s what I hope the fight against Escharum will play like.
I’ve always said that, at least for Halo, boss battles are (have been) a lazy way to add challenge to the game play. Halo is at its best when you are out numbered, not out matched.
343 went all-in with H5 and the Warden and I can honestly say that those are my most hated fights in all of Halo campaigns.
I didn’t mind the Warden like others did. I just prefer to fight important enemies in the game rather than seeing them die in cutscenes or in comics. So I really hope we fight Atriox or whoever the Banished leaders are during actual missions. They don’t have to be ridiculous bullet sponges that takes forever to kill. Just give them challenging AI and some good weaponry to fight back with.
> 2696128169797597;9:
> I didn’t mind the Warden like others did. I just prefer to fight important enemies in the game rather than seeing them die in cutscenes or in comics. So I really hope we fight Atriox or whoever the Banished leaders are during actual missions. They don’t have to be ridiculous bullet sponges that takes forever to kill. Just give them challenging AI and some good weaponry to fight back with.
Honestly the taking forever to kill part of the encounter is the difficulty. It’s like yeah, you might be able to pull off a lucky shot here and there, but are you good enough to sustain the high intensity over time (hence the high HP) and overcome the challenge? Swapping this out with essentially just Heroic Firefight for a few minutes is not an applicable boss encounter; wave challenges are, and should be, just a sub-encounter, or an element of the greater encounter. Anyways, the single boss enemy with lots of life works solo, and honestly it’s a huge gameplay component for online shooters, so if they are going to encourage coop (strong social play is necessary in this day and age), I don’t see how there won’t be parts of campaign that will work like this.
> 2614366390849210;5:
> Mild spoilers for CE, H2, and H3 in this post.
>
> I’ve stated a few times over the years, that I really hope boss battles are NOT approached the same way Bungie did with Tartarus and 343 in H2 and H3. Rather I hope they go back to how Halo CE approached events like this, as just large scale intense battles. Three immediate examples come to mind, but there are plenty more throughout CE’s campaign.
>
> Boarding the Truth and Reconciliation. Wave after wave of Covenant are sent down the grav lift to stop you from boarding the ship. The action gets more and more intense as the music cranks up, until eventually the battle is punctuated by Hunters coming in to blast you and any marines you might have left. You can even include the battle in the loading dock afterwords as part of the “boss event”. I think this is the first time we’re ever introduced to hunters, who act as a heavy psuedo-boss in CE.
>
> The Library, defending yourself at the door. Sure this happens multiple times in the level… but there’s one particular door set where you get closed in on each side in a very small room. The Flood music blasting, and you’re assaulted by a literal flood of enemies. If you don’t know how to time your grenades and shotgun shots, you’re toast.
>
> The Battle of The Two Betrayals. You need a banshee to reach the final beam emitter. Problem… there’s a group of heavily armed flood, and a battalion of covenant there to stop you. Wraiths, ghosts, invisible elite flanks, jackal squads, grunt turret squads, hunters, EVERYTHING you can imagine has to be dealt with. This is probably the largest battle in CE, with the most variety of ways to approach it.
>
> Can anyone tell me with a straight face that fighting Tartarus, 343, or the Warden were even remotely as fun as any of these battles?
All of the H1 campaign instances you brought up are great, but they’re not boss battles no matter how hard we bend the definition. Boss battles have worked pretty much forever in games, serving as essential climax moments in the action. A glorified round of firefight cannot replace that. For an FPS, I think the original Doom games flowed pretty well in this sense.
Regarding the boss fights you cited, Tartarus & Guilty Spark were pretty much trash encounters, and Warden was only a little better. Because those sequences were bad does not mean we should conclude that boss battles are not a good idea. The problem with the “boss fights” you mentioned before is that they were really all just token (Warden less so), used to give the player the feeling of interactivity in major story telling moments. So in a sense, none of them were really boss battles anyways (Again, Warden is arguable I suppose).
maybe take a doom 2016 turn, and have strong enemies have weakpoints to shoot, and give a tactical advantage. Maybe hunters could have their spikes shot off, then assassinated?
> 2535409171473129;12:
> maybe take a doom 2016 turn, and have strong enemies have weakpoints to shoot, and give a tactical advantage. Maybe hunters could have their spikes shot off, then assassinated?
I like this idea a lot. I’d love to see more interactivity with the tank class enemies especially. I’ve been preaching Hunter boarding for a long time now. Snockooz had a cool post about this back in the day. I pulled the below quote from his thread where he describes how this might work:
press X and jump on him. Now the big back plate is still on then so you would need to pull it off by rapidly pressing X, you have to do it fast now or the hunter will shake you off. As soon as you pull the plate off you would jump off because of the force you were using to pull the plate. After that you would have to dodge another of the hunter smashes than clime on again. At this point you can do one of two things. 1. If you have a grenade you can shove that sucker right in him. Or 2. You can rapidly press RB to rip out and tare apart the worm colony. Again you would only have a short time before the hunter shakes you off so do as much damage as you can.
> 2533274838687111;11:
> > 2614366390849210;5:
> >
>
> All of the H1 campaign instances you brought up are great, but they’re not boss battles no matter how hard we bend the definition. Boss battles have worked pretty much forever in games, serving as essential climax moments in the action. A glorified round of firefight cannot replace that. For an FPS, I think the original Doom games flowed pretty well in this sense.
>
> Regarding the boss fights you cited, Tartarus & Guilty Spark were pretty much trash encounters, and Warden was only a little better. Because those sequences were bad does not mean we should conclude that boss battles are not a good idea. The problem with the “boss fights” you mentioned before is that they were really all just token (Warden less so), used to give the player the feeling of interactivity in major story telling moments. So in a sense, none of them were really boss battles anyways (Again, Warden is arguable I suppose).
Well, for those like yourself who really want boss fights, I have a compromise. Make the big bad guy just pilot some special vehicle variant, and have that be the boss fight (like how Scarab’s were a boss fight/ large battle hybrid in H3).
You still get the intensity of a single VIP target who is consequential to the story and likely punctuated with dialogue between characters in addition to the gameplay. But for the actual fight, you don’t have to worry about gimmickry mechanics players may get tired of over time (Tartarus and having to just run away until he gets hit by the sniper shots).
Instead the fight can just leverage the vehicle combat mechanics that are pretty universally loved amongst the Halo community (in the context of campaign). And you’d likely end up with a sequence that it’s cherished for the variety of ways you can approach it. Like the double scarab battle in H3 where you can use the Hornet, or Scorpion, or Hog, or Ghost, or Guass Hog, or… I think you get the point.
Make the boss vehicle as distinct as the difference between the traditional Scorpion and the Hannibal Scorpion (as an example), and the encounter would still carry the weight of a boss fight.
> 2533274838687111;7:
> > 2535447175857524;6:
> > > 2533274838687111;1:
> > > Proper boss battles are something 343i flirted around the edges with in H5 campaign with some of the Warden fights, but much of the key combat moments were frustratingly done through cut scene (Osiris vs. Jul 'Mdama, Chief vs. Locke, etc). What if instead Halo introduced a new gameplay element, the Zelda-style boss battle? These might take place a few times at key moments in the campaign. Imagine having to fight Gravemind after perhaps doing a little bit of puzzle solving/platforming in the Library which might function like one of the Temples. It would ironically be an old-school twist on Halo that would be something completely new for the series.
> > >
> > > If that’s too much to stomach, Warzone is one of the places you can get an idea of how Boss Battles Lite might play out, which would still be a lot fun, and much less of a brand new element. I really like the inclusion of health bars for the more difficult enemies in Warzone, and honestly big bullet sponge bruisers are just fun to play, no matter how seemingly simple the loop. Those Grunt Goblins are just freaking cool - Totally awesome how deadly at close range they are, but also very mobile, so your always in a dance to stay at the optimum distance to unload your weapons, whatever they may be, while dodging tracers and other enemies. It’s very good. And no wonder, plenty, plenty of triple A shooters have made this fun. Halo did with Warzone and it’d be nice to see in Infinite’s campaign. Normal enemies would function the same way, but “boss-class” enemies would have health bars, be very OP etc. Imagine having to fight Goliaths dropped into the battlefield off the bottom of a Phantom. Or bring down a Blisterback in an encounter similar to engaging a spider tank in Destiny. I think this could work very well.
> >
> > I’m betting the fight with Escharum will be some sort of boss battle. And I would surprised if it has a few more in it as well.
>
> Yeah! This just reminded me of the fight against Tartarus which was absolutely a proper boss fight, at least on paper, but I feel it was a bit token since it’s so easy. Imagine that sequence but with difficulty scaled up to like Dark Souls. Now that’s what I hope the fight against Escharum will play like.
They’re not going to make a single brute too op. If the Escharum fight is going to be super difficult it will probably involve other brutes as well, or be in really close quarters.
I hated the boring warden eternal boss fights in halo 5. I would like to see a boss with more character and I’d like to keep the assasination
> 2614366390849210;14:
> > 2533274838687111;11:
> > > 2614366390849210;5:
> > >
> >
> > All of the H1 campaign instances you brought up are great, but they’re not boss battles no matter how hard we bend the definition. Boss battles have worked pretty much forever in games, serving as essential climax moments in the action. A glorified round of firefight cannot replace that. For an FPS, I think the original Doom games flowed pretty well in this sense.
> >
> > Regarding the boss fights you cited, Tartarus & Guilty Spark were pretty much trash encounters, and Warden was only a little better. Because those sequences were bad does not mean we should conclude that boss battles are not a good idea. The problem with the “boss fights” you mentioned before is that they were really all just token (Warden less so), used to give the player the feeling of interactivity in major story telling moments. So in a sense, none of them were really boss battles anyways (Again, Warden is arguable I suppose).
>
> Well, for those like yourself who really want boss fights, I have a compromise. Make the big bad guy just pilot some special vehicle variant, and have that be the boss fight (like how Scarab’s were a boss fight/ large battle hybrid in H3).
>
> You still get the intensity of a single VIP target who is consequential to the story and likely punctuated with dialogue between characters in addition to the gameplay. But for the actual fight, you don’t have to worry about gimmickry mechanics players may get tired of over time (Tartarus and having to just run away until he gets hit by the sniper shots).
>
> Instead the fight can just leverage the vehicle combat mechanics that are pretty universally loved amongst the Halo community (in the context of campaign). And you’d likely end up with a sequence that it’s cherished for the variety of ways you can approach it. Like the double scarab battle in H3 where you can use the Hornet, or Scorpion, or Hog, or Ghost, or Guass Hog, or… I think you get the point.
>
> Make the boss vehicle as distinct as the difference between the traditional Scorpion and the Hannibal Scorpion (as an example), and the encounter would still carry the weight of a boss fight.
That’s straying dangerously close to Batman: Arkham Knight territory. I love that game to death, but the vehicle boss fights get pretty bland very fast.
I like the large scale battles as bosses idea. However, I also thought the grunt mech fight in H5 warzone was fun. Anytime as a spartan that you have to take down a large vehicle that has tactical weakpoints, or strategy to taking it down quickly I enjoy.
> 2696128169797597;9:
> I didn’t mind the Warden like others did. I just prefer to fight important enemies in the game rather than seeing them die in cutscenes or in comics. So I really hope we fight Atriox or whoever the Banished leaders are during actual missions. They don’t have to be ridiculous bullet sponges that takes forever to kill. Just give them challenging AI and some good weaponry to fight back with.
I liked the Warden as a boss battle. I thought fighting him was pretty fun, but in terms of story continuation it felt like they were almost rushing to put in a boss but wanted multiple so they just decided that they would use the warden multiple times instead of making new ones and running out of time (I could be wrong, that’s just my opinion). Also although I enjoyed fighting the Warden, I feel like after the third or fourth fights against him he didn’t really feel like much of a boss anymore and it got too repetitive. Warden would have been GREAT as a first boss, maybe that you fought twice because the second time would bring that “I thought I killed you” sort of feeling, and then actually kill him and not fight him again. I think they should have had a second boss to keep h5 less repetitive.
I also think that the Infinite brutes should honestly have a ttk that’s like halfway between H3 and H2, so that they feel different and more challenging than elites, but still don’t take half your ammo to kill and feel like each one is almost a mini boss.
and yes, a boss fight against atriox or escharam(I probably spelled that wrong lol) would be amazing. Personally, I think that a boss fight system similar to destiny because i feel like Bungie did bossfights really well with that game. Not with all the power ups and special abiliities, just having the way boss fights work be similar to that (having a miniboss every once in a while leading up to a more important and harder to fight boss)
> 2533274977144832;19:
> > 2696128169797597;9:
> > I didn’t mind the Warden like others did. I just prefer to fight important enemies in the game rather than seeing them die in cutscenes or in comics. So I really hope we fight Atriox or whoever the Banished leaders are during actual missions. They don’t have to be ridiculous bullet sponges that takes forever to kill. Just give them challenging AI and some good weaponry to fight back with.
>
> I liked the Warden as a boss battle. I thought fighting him was pretty fun, but in terms of story continuation it felt like they were almost rushing to put in a boss but wanted multiple so they just decided that they would use the warden multiple times instead of making new ones and running out of time (I could be wrong, that’s just my opinion). Also although I enjoyed fighting the Warden, I feel like after the third or fourth fights against him he didn’t really feel like much of a boss anymore and it got too repetitive. Warden would have been GREAT as a first boss, maybe that you fought twice because the second time would bring that “I thought I killed you” sort of feeling, and then actually kill him and not fight him again. I think they should have had a second boss to keep h5 less repetitive.
>
> I also think that the Infinite brutes should honestly have a ttk that’s like halfway between H3 and H2, so that they feel different and more challenging than elites, but still don’t take half your ammo to kill and feel like each one is almost a mini boss.
>
> and yes, a boss fight against atriox or escharam(I probably spelled that wrong lol) would be amazing. Personally, I think that a boss fight system similar to destiny because i feel like Bungie did bossfights really well with that game. Not with all the power ups and special abiliities, just having the way boss fights work be similar to that (having a miniboss every once in a while leading up to a more important and harder to fight boss)
Basically agree with everything here. As you were talking about H5 bosses in an alternate reality it made me think of Didact for some reason. I did like his character a lot, and I thought they killed him off too quickly for somebody who should have made a WAY bigger impact in the Halo current state of affairs (He reminds me of Supreme Leader Snoke in this sense). He definitely should have popped up again in H5 in like a “biznatch I’m back!” moment, potentially killing Locke in a first person gameplay moment. That would have both illustrated his power, and gotten rid of a pesky little failed character who will probs now forever be relegated to the extended universe.