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> > > Why? If 343i hadn’t intended for players to be able to be killed straight off spawn, they would’ve implemented a spawn protection (invulnerability that lasts for few seconds after spawning). Because it’s possible to kill players straight off spawn, doing it is a completely fair game. Why should players be punished for doing exactly what they are supposed to do?
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> > You’re confusing poor game design with what 343i intended to do. There’s no way to perfectly tell if 343i wanted spawn killing to be this bad, even if they added spawn protection then it could easily lead to people spawned with it then using it to glitch the game further to make it an advantage on certain maps. At this point they need better spawn locations, better ways to avoid players getting spawn trapped. There’s nothing fair about being killed instantly, it’s a clear disadvantage to the opposing team. Plus as far as I’m concerned ‘exploiting’ spawns to get easy kills is technically cheating.
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> Read carefully what I wrote. I only said that if 343i hadn’t intended spawn killing to be possible, then they would’ve added spawn protection. I did not imply they intended it to be easy. And you’re quite right to question whether this is poor game design on 343i’s part. However, I was not defending poor game design, but merely saying that players shouldn’t be punished for it.
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> With that said, I say that the fact that players can spawn kill each other doesn’t automatically mean the game is poorly designed. More often than not in Halo I’ve seen spawn killing to be result of lopsided teams rather than poor design of the map or the spawn system. Between two simiarly skilled teams, the other team rarely gets in the position to have control over the spawns of the opposing team. If the spawning is well designed, then a successfully executed spawn trap can, in fact, be a sign of great teamwork and understanding of the spawns. So, we shouldn’t a priori consider spawn killing as a bad thing. Of course these are just general comments, and I’m not in a position to say anything about the spawns in Halo 5 in particular, so if you say the spawns are poorly designed, then I’m not going to challenge you.
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> When it comes to your last point, you can follow any moral code you want, but I would never accept using the rules of the game to your advantage as “cheating”. The rules won’t be perfect, and there will always be ways for players to exploit them in a way that makes the game uninterestingly easy. The player shouldn’t feel the need to ask themselves “will this thing the game allows me to do upset other players?” All the player needs to do is play by the rules of the game. If there’s an exploit in the rules, then it’s the designer’s job to decide whether that exploit harms or benefits the game (or has no significant effect either way), and then change the rules if they feel the exploit harms the game. However, as long as the exploit is in the game, it’s not the player’s responsibility to feel bad about using that exploit. Of course, another player is free to consider it as cheating by their own arbitrary standards, but I think not doing so is quite a healthy perspective to have.
I did, you said it was fair game, like you said “if”, you was basically implying what 343i intended.
From a design point of view I have experience, know that we don’t always try to make spawns easy to camp, in most cases we try to avoid it so in my view it wouldn’t make any sense whatsoever if 343i tried to do this purpose but I kind of agree about them not being punished but there needs to be a better system to prevent spawn camping from a technical point of view.
To be clear when I say poor games design…I’m only referring to the spawns system at this moment. The fact that players can easily spawn trap is technically a poor design system of the game, clearly gives a team an unfair advantage. It’s strange because there are countless things they could have done to prevent this like bigger maps, etc… it’s weird because I don’t recall having this issue as badly in games like Battlefield. In Battlefield they have spawn protected zones to prevent spawn camping so the enemy team can’t attack without killing themselves.