Bloom works perfect with the AR, but not dmr

To be honest with you guys, i hate bloom when it comes to weapons like the sniper, and needle rifle, to the dmr, to pistol.

Bloom workd perfectly with-

  1. Ar
  2. plasma rifle (should be implemented)
  3. plasma repeater (not good enough bloom)
  4. Spiker (should have one)
  5. any weapon that is automatic.

Bloom should not work with things like-

1.dmr
2.pistol
3.needle rifle
4.sniper (really doesnt need it)
5.any other percision weapon.

Proof that bungie got lazy, CONSPIRACY- Bloom was not implemented on weapons like plasma rifle, and weapons that had invisible bloom effect.

enemy boarding, and water vehicles proved to hard to work on (lazy)

they cant change bloom becuase that would take too much work, and they would rather sit on there chairs showering with the money they got from us.

i like bloom because it teaches people to actaully aim and go for presision instead of just spraying their weapons.

> i like bloom because it teaches people to actaully aim and go for presision instead of just spraying their weapons.

A slower fixed rate of fire could acomplish this aswell but without the randomness. Bloom and unfixed ROF should be left to full auto weapons only. Semi auto precision weapons should have a fixed rate of fire.

> Proof that bungie got lazy, CONSPIRACY- Bloom was not implemented on weapons like plasma rifle, and weapons that had invisible bloom effect.
>
> enemy boarding, and water vehicles proved to hard to work on (lazy)
>
> they cant change bloom becuase that would take too much work, and they would rather sit on there chairs showering with the money they got from us.

Disregarding this…

I believe bloom is a wonderful mechanic for keeping weapons in a certain niche. If you compare the bloom system to the fixed cross-hair system (a la BR), you can draw some differences:

With a fixed cross-hair system, battles become random the instant your target doesn’t fill the entire reticule. This means the longer range you use the BR, the more influential randomness becomes. With the DMR because of its bloom system battles become less random the longer range you go (up to a point, it isn’t a sniper after all).

In close range a fixed reticule system is king. As long as your target fills your cross-hair it is very effective at close range, which defeated the purpose of the BR being a mid-long range weapon, much like the DMR is. At close range, the DMR rewards spamming shots more, and you have a higher chance of getting lucky and landing bullets on your target even if they don’t take up the entire cross-hair.

The Bloom system is great in theory, I just don’t think it was executed as effectively as it should have. It has the potential to be more skill-full than a fixed reticule system, and there are some suggestions floating around to accomplish that. I wouldn’t mind an improvement on the bloom system, but if it doesn’t happen I can live with it.

Bloom is good as long as it doesn’t involve players getting lucky shots when they spam.

Check out this video to see a proposed bloom fix.

  1. FAs have bloom on them to prevent them from being overpowered at ranged combat.

  2. Precision weapons have bloom on them so that they can compete with the weapons designed for closer range combat than they were designed for.

  3. If you make a precision weapon 100% pinpoint accurate but slow in its rate of fire, it will be owned at close and medium ranges.

  4. If you make it so a precision weapon can be fired as quickly as possible but with no accuracy penalty, you might as well have a FA weapon without bloom. Which of course is overpowered.

  5. So now you have Halo: Reach, an actual balanced, multi-ranged combat sandbox.

  6. If you play Halo: Reach with the mentality that it can be simplified into a one-weapon metagame, you will have defined insanity: doing something repeatedly, the same way, expecting different results each time.

  7. I don’t blame you Bungie/343i for a portion of the communities’ fandumb thinking that Bungie makes sequels with minor additions/tweaks compared to their previous titles. I thank you for making this greatest hits game. I know it’s not the next big thing, it’s exactly what I got, all of Halo in one package. (though, come one, what’s with the frame stuttering? ;))

And forgot to add, if you’re using AAs and cover, bloom doesn’t seem so lucky or random. If you stand in one spot or make very little movement while rapid firing your DMR or NR, of course things will miss and seem like a nOOb can beat you.

You’re suppose to play Halo: Reach, not the previous Halos. But, at least the classic list may let you indeed play Reach like the previous Halos.

> And forgot to add, if you’re using AAs and cover, bloom doesn’t seem so lucky or random. If you stand in one spot or make very little movement while rapid firing your DMR or NR, of course things will miss and seem like a nOOb can beat you.
>
> You’re suppose to play Halo: Reach, not the previous Halos. But, at least the classic list may let you indeed play Reach like the previous Halos.

I understand what you’re saying, but you must not have watched the video, because all that video is doing is taking the “luck” out of the bloom.

I don’t want bloom to go away at all; I think it was a great idea. However, the way it is now, you can spam the trigger and your bloom can be huge, but occasionally, your shots will land and that should NEVER happen.

If the change from the video is implemented, your reticle will have to COMPLETELY cover your target to land a hit; therefore, rewarding pacers and punishing spammers once and for all.

However, even if this was fixed, it doesn’t address how AAs slow down the game.

Well, some people might say that removing luck is a skill. Others would also say that if you can see how much of the blooming reticle covers the enemy, you can deduce the % of of luck involved and therefore, luck was never a factor.

If you’re spamming with a full reticle over a body at medium range, there is a tone of luck involved. If you’re spamming with full reticle at close range, there is little luck involved. If you cover the area of the enemy you want to hit with 100% of your reticle, you will hit 100% of the time.

The DMR and NR are very similar but different enough to warrant knowing when you should be running around killing infantry or when you should be sitting back and popping off targets and vehicles.

As far as AAs slowing down the game, they don’t. The gameplay itself is very fast paced but the firefights can take longer than previous titles. There is a difference between the 2 descriptions. AL used by nOObs slows the game down. AL used by people who learned how to use it, don’t slow anything down. In fact, they may kill their enemy quicker than normal because of it.

> Well, some people might say that removing luck is a skill. Others would also say that if you can see how much of the blooming reticle covers the enemy, you can deduce the % of of luck involved and therefore, luck was never a factor.
>
> If you’re spamming with a full reticle over a body at medium range, there is a tone of luck involved. If you’re spamming with full reticle at close range, there is little luck involved. If you cover the area of the enemy you want to hit with 100% of your reticle, you will hit 100% of the time.
>
> The DMR and NR are very similar but different enough to warrant knowing when you should be running around killing infantry or when you should be sitting back and popping off targets and vehicles.
>
> As far as AAs slowing down the game, they don’t. The gameplay itself is very fast paced but the firefights can take longer than previous titles. There is a difference between the 2 descriptions. AL used by nOObs slows the game down. AL used by people who learned how to use it, don’t slow anything down. In fact, they may kill their enemy quicker than normal because of it.

So it’s a better system to “take my chances” by saying, "well my reticle is covering 75% of my enemy, I only have 25% chance of missing, but firing now also nets a faster kill time.

Or you have some shooting at 50% covered at a faster rate that can beat the 75%

Or you have some shooting at 25%… get where I’m going.

Sure the chance continues to diminish, but why leave a game series that has been so set on skill for almost a decade now settle on luck? It makes no sense. Might as well turn Halo into a turn-based strategy game where the engine is based on the rolling of a die, a flip of a coin.

You seem to feel that the heavily aim-assisted BR and large swipe-scan window Sniper Rifle of Halo2 implied skill when using it because they netted easy kills. Or using Halo3’s aim-assisted with heavy amounts of retilce magnetism BR (both) and Sniper (later) meant that you had skills when you twitched your way, bunny hopping around a map.

That or I don’t know what you mean by skill. Your opinion of skill certainly doesn’t include player position, team communication or map knowledge. It almost implies quick reflexes and a quick trigger finger make up skill inclusive and exclusive.

It is ok to prefer one system over another but Reach’s sandbox is not broken and it certainly requires skill to play. The bloom makes your random shots predictable. More predictable than the Carbine, Pistol or the 2 bullets that followed the BR’s first bullet in Halo3.

If all you so called competitive gamers feel you need a one weapon metagame, say so with intelligence. Don’t make up fallacies and false facts about a game you don’t like the style of. I don’t care about casual vs competitive arguements, I don’t care if one person prefers the one Halo over another. I do care when lies are made up to compensate for an inability to learn.

I understand that because there is no single minded metagame style, a lot of those that were used to Halo being easily simplified to such game are intimidated by a new game that can be played like 2 Football teams going at each other. There are actual styles of movement, not just gun play. It’s not who has the most accurate throwing quarterback. Or the fastest wide receiver. It’s about who plays as a team best. It makes it so there really is no definitive way to play the game. And that appears to be difficult for the console competitive gamer.

That and the furthering of 3D FPS combat thanks to the AAs is almost a quantum leap for map movement and that can make those used to simply jumping and spamming feel gimped because there are 3 ways to move and there’s a huge penalty to falling.

Since skill in an FPS is about teamwork first, position second and weapon knowledge last. And since the bloom is visually indicated and consistent in its function, where the random shot lands is 100% in control of the user;
If 2 players, playing lonewolf, who are equally skilled meet, Reach’s system is such that they both die every time they meet.
The better player must not just be better at aiming and firing quickly. The better play is the one who puts themselves in the best position to win. Maybe not in Halo:CE, 2 or 3. But in Reach, the better player is the one who is more skilled at using their AA and the map, not using their weapon alone.

I feel like you’re dodging my question. :frowning:

Here is a scenario:

4v4 Team Slayer, both teams are a party of 4 with mics and communicate tactically throughout the match. They work as a team and teamshoot their opponents. Team 1 are all timing their shots so their reticle is always 100% on their target. Team 2 are all shooting a bit faster and their reticles are only covering 80% of the target.

Team 2 gets a good roll of the die and their faster shooting nets them two quick kills and they teamshoot the two closest players of Team 1. However, now Team 2 is getting a few misses with only 80% miss rate and have one of their players on Team 2 taken out.

Do you not see how it’s not their teamwork, their strategy, their teamshooting that is netting these kills, but a random number generator running in the background depending on their bloom size whether or not they are hitting their targets?

This change isn’t asking for Halo to go back to any twitch gameplay because we all know that Reach is far from that I agree with you that it is a good thing. Timing and patience is what is suppose to be rewarded in Reach, but when it comes down to practice, it’s just probability more than anything.

> You seem to feel that the heavily aim-assisted BR and large swipe-scan window Sniper Rifle of Halo2 implied skill when using it because they netted easy kills. Or using Halo3’s aim-assisted with heavy amounts of retilce magnetism BR (both) and Sniper (later) meant that you had skills when you twitched your way, bunny hopping around a map.
>
> That or I don’t know what you mean by skill. Your opinion of skill certainly doesn’t include player position, team communication or map knowledge. It almost implies quick reflexes and a quick trigger finger make up skill inclusive and exclusive.
>
> It is ok to prefer one system over another but Reach’s sandbox is not broken and it certainly requires skill to play. The bloom makes your random shots predictable. More predictable than the Carbine, Pistol or the 2 bullets that followed the BR’s first bullet in Halo3.
>
> If all you so called competitive gamers feel you need a one weapon metagame, say so with intelligence. Don’t make up fallacies and false facts about a game you don’t like the style of. I don’t care about casual vs competitive arguements, I don’t care if one person prefers the one Halo over another. I do care when lies are made up to compensate for an inability to learn.
>
> I understand that because there is no single minded metagame style, a lot of those that were used to Halo being easily simplified to such game are intimidated by a new game that can be played like 2 Football teams going at each other. There are actual styles of movement, not just gun play. It’s not who has the most accurate throwing quarterback. Or the fastest wide receiver. It’s about who plays as a team best. It makes it so there really is no definitive way to play the game. And that appears to be difficult for the console competitive gamer.
>
> That and the furthering of 3D FPS combat thanks to the AAs is almost a quantum leap for map movement and that can make those used to simply jumping and spamming feel gimped because there are 3 ways to move and there’s a huge penalty to falling.
>
> Since skill in an FPS is about teamwork first, position second and weapon knowledge last. And since the bloom is visually indicated and consistent in its function, where the random shot lands is 100% in control of the user;
> If 2 players, playing lonewolf, who are equally skilled meet, Reach’s system is such that they both die every time they meet.
> The better player must not just be better at aiming and firing quickly. The better play is the one who puts themselves in the best position to win. Maybe not in Halo:CE, 2 or 3. But in Reach, the better player is the one who is more skilled at using their AA and the map, not using their weapon alone.

Truth.

Thats why I love reach, no more battle of the BR everytime you see someone.

Skill = far more than aiming ans queezing.