UPDATE: I now know that Bloom = “a view of your spread” and spread = “the more you fire, the less accurate you are”
I’m sick of the rants about reach’s bloom. Its been in every halo game. Yes, bloom does expand too much on the dmr but removing it completely is going to ruin the game.
If you don’t believe that halo always had bloom. watch these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OilVqh0lhNY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxHwHfgT9yA Adding the VIEW of bloom is what made everyone notice it. Removing bloom from the pistol and making it overpowered is an ok idea to an extent. we DO NOT want it more powerful than the dmr. Bloom SHOULD be added when you dual wield in halo 4 though.
Bloom can be fixed:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHGItn8JCz0)
and there was a reason for a view of your bloom:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-YaHOpIa1s 1:20 - 1:40)
Mark my words, people are going to abuse the ability of no bloom after a 2 months of playing and make the multiplayer seem a little more unbalanced.
In short. getting rid of bloom altogether will ruin the game. reducing and improving it will make the game more balanced.
PLUS: no bloom is going to promote dmr/pistol spamming across the map. This results in tones of easy long ranged kills that will result in a team snipers battle more that a close-on, tactical assault.
> PLUS: no bloom is going to promote dmr/pistol spamming.
facepalm Nothing I can say that has not already been said. But here goes
You do realize people can"spam"(or fire at the guns SET ROF) all they want but they still have to aim right? Have you even played ZB? Have you watched pro Halo players playing ZB? They miss tons of shots!!!
And by your logic halo 1-3 was full of spammers because people shot the BR/pistol at its max ROF so those games were just full of spammers. They took no skill. They were broken.
> > PLUS: no bloom is going to promote dmr/pistol spamming.
>
> facepalm Nothing I can say that has not already been said. But here goes
>
> You do realize people can"spam"(or fire at the guns SET ROF) all they want but they still have to aim right? Have you even played ZB? Have you watched pro Halo players playing ZB? They miss tons of shots!!!
>
> And by your logic halo 1-3 was full of spammers because people shot the BR/pistol at its max ROF so those games were just full of spammers. They took no skill. They were broken.
I meant that no bloom weapons could be fired from one edge of a map to the other at a high rate. reach’s additional bloom to done to prevent people spamming powerful bullets across long stretches of the map.
> > > PLUS: no bloom is going to promote dmr/pistol spamming.
> >
> > facepalm Nothing I can say that has not already been said. But here goes
> >
> > You do realize people can"spam"(or fire at the guns SET ROF) all they want but they still have to aim right? Have you even played ZB? Have you watched pro Halo players playing ZB? They miss tons of shots!!!
> >
> > And by your logic halo 1-3 was full of spammers because people shot the BR/pistol at its max ROF so those games were just full of spammers. They took no skill. They were broken.
>
> I meant that no bloom weapons could be fired from one edge of a map to the other at a high rate. reach’s additional bloom to done to prevent people spamming powerful bullets across long stretches of the map.
Halo CE pistol could fire cross map. Being able to fire cross map encourages good decision making. If you flail around in the open you deserve to die. Most maps have enough cover to promote smart movement. I have played tons of zero bloom slayer and I do not get cross-map killed.
But never the less no-bloom will have its place. I don’t want no-bloom in every playlist that would not be fair to those those that enjoy it. I am glad that both of us can play Halo how we enjoy it now. As long as there is one no-bloom playlist I am happy
I believe you might be mistaken on your terminology, and it’s ruining your arguments.
Bloom is a graphical representation in the HUD of Bullet Spread. Bullet Spread has been in all Halos, and that’s fine. The formulas used to make them work were well developed and functioned in the manner in which they were intended. But the way Bullet Spread was implemented into Reach is what people are in an uproar about.
Reach’s Bullet Spread (represented graphically for the first time with Bloom) especially on the DMR uses a different set of variables in its formula to determine where the shots should go. Not only that, but it was implemented in such a way that goal of the Bullet Spread was to force players to pace their shots a distance or else suffer the consequences of an innaccurate shot (which is absurd to begin with coming from a designated MARKSMAN rifle). But when the closer the 2 players in a DMR get with each other, a faster rate of fire becomes acceptable because the Bloom should place the shot right on the guy in front of you.
But it doesn’t always work like that, hence the emphasized should. If 2 players of equal skill/health/whatever else you can think of begin shooting at each other in close range, 1 of 3 things might happen. Player A might die, Player B might die, or they might trade kills with each other.
AND IT IS TOTALLY RANDOM.
That is what people’s problem with “Bloom” is. The way Bullet Spread was implemented looks good on paper, but when it actually plays out, it ends up drawing out already long kill times, forces inaccurate shots, and grants unearned kills via a headshot off a spammed shot from the edge of the fully expanded bloom radius.
tl;dr: The people who hate bloom tend to be people who are more aware of what’s going on behind the scenes in the game and how it all influences everything else and they are mad because bloom make bad players hit shots they shouldn’t have and good players miss shots that should’ve hit.
Maybe a 15% Bloom Reduction is all it needs, but for what I’ve experienced with Zero Bloom customs, I would take that any day of the week over the random and inconsistent Bullet Spread we have right now.
> I’m sick of the rants about reach’s bloom. Its been in every halo game. Yes, bloom does expand too much on the dmr but removing it completely is going to ruin the game.
> If you don’t believe that halo always had bloom. watch these:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OilVqh0lhNY&feature=related
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxHwHfgT9yA
> Adding the VIEW of bloom is what made everyone notice it. Removing bloom from the pistol and making it overpowered is an ok idea to an extent. we DO NOT want it more powerful than the dmr. Bloom SHOULD be added when you dual wield in halo 4 though.
> Bloom can be fixed:
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHGItn8JCz0)
> and there was a reason for a view of your bloom:
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-YaHOpIa1s 1:20 - 1:40)
>
> Mark my words, people are going to abuse the ability of no bloom after a 2 months of playing and make the multiplayer seem a little more unbalanced.
>
> In short. getting rid of bloom altogether will ruin the game. reducing and improving it will make the game more balanced.
I’ll let you know some facts…
Bloom is new to halo for the precision weapons (because you’re one of those that think: auto weapon bullet spread = bloom).
Bloom in Reach is bad for competitive play, yes it is a way to balance weapons, but that still doesn’t make it good for competitive play because of its randomness.
Halo 2/3 BRs have the same killtime as the Bloomless DMR.
Playing no AAs with Classic settings and no bloom gametype is were no bloom plays best, so Team Classic.
Bloom slows down the gameplay, becuase you have to: shoot, stop, shoot, stop, shoot, stop…
All of the above are facts, now comes the opinions:
Halo 4 will be better without blooming reticles (this depeds on the kind of person).
What you call spamming, which is firing the weapon at its max fire rate and trying to have flawless aim, is harder than pacing shots and having flawless aim (opinion cuz bloom can be better done).
I have way agree with you. Was bloom in other Halo games? Not really. Not anything like it was implemented in Reach. It had to be changed. No question about that.
But simply removing bloom isn’t the answer either. In my experience with zero bloom their does seem to be an awful lot of spray and pray and yes, *SPAMMING. The RoF is far too fast and makes for easy head shots. Unless the max rate of fire is lowered I will not be playing zero bloom. I’ll be more inclined to play 85% bloom.
*Yes, you can spam a weapon with a capped rate of fire. Spamming is when quantity takes priority over quality. Frags can be spammed, the carbine was spammed and when people panic with the sniper in close range they tend to spam even that weapon. Playing ZB Reach I found their to be an awful lot of spamming. I like my Halo to feel more deliberate and require a bit more discipline.
> > > > PLUS: no bloom is going to promote dmr/pistol spamming.
> > >
> > > facepalm Nothing I can say that has not already been said. But here goes
> > >
> > > You do realize people can"spam"(or fire at the guns SET ROF) all they want but they still have to aim right? Have you even played ZB? Have you watched pro Halo players playing ZB? They miss tons of shots!!!
> > >
> > > And by your logic halo 1-3 was full of spammers because people shot the BR/pistol at its max ROF so those games were just full of spammers. They took no skill. They were broken.
> >
> > I meant that no bloom weapons could be fired from one edge of a map to the other at a high rate. reach’s additional bloom to done to prevent people spamming powerful bullets across long stretches of the map.
>
> Halo CE pistol could fire cross map. Being able to fire cross map encourages good decision making. If you flail around in the open you deserve to die. Most maps have enough cover to promote smart movement. I have played tons of zero bloom slayer and I do not get cross-map killed.
> But never the less no-bloom will have its place. I don’t want no-bloom in every playlist that would not be fair to those those that enjoy it. I am glad that both of us can play Halo how we enjoy it now. As long as there is one no-bloom playlist I am happy
The CE pistol was not near as accurate as the DMR or NR. Cross map duels in CE yielded random results. It was a roll of the dice to get involved in them.
With the pin point accuracy and high firing rate of the DMR and NR expect to see players stick to the perimeters more than ever.
> I believe you might be mistaken on your terminology, and it’s ruining your arguments.
>
> Bloom is a graphical representation in the HUD of Bullet Spread. Bullet Spread has been in all Halos, and that’s fine. The formulas used to make them work were well developed and functioned in the manner in which they were intended. But the way Bullet Spread was implemented into Reach is what people are in an uproar about.
>
> Reach’s Bullet Spread (represented graphically for the first time with Bloom) especially on the DMR uses a different set of variables in its formula to determine where the shots should go. Not only that, but it was implemented in such a way that goal of the Bullet Spread was to force players to pace their shots a distance or else suffer the consequences of an innaccurate shot (which is absurd to begin with coming from a designated MARKSMAN rifle). But when the closer the 2 players in a DMR get with each other, a faster rate of fire becomes acceptable because the Bloom should place the shot right on the guy in front of you.
>
> But it doesn’t always work like that, hence the emphasized should. If 2 players of equal skill/health/whatever else you can think of begin shooting at each other in close range, 1 of 3 things might happen. Player A might die, Player B might die, or they might trade kills with each other.
>
> AND IT IS TOTALLY RANDOM.
>
> That is what people’s problem with “Bloom” is. The way Bullet Spread was implemented looks good on paper, but when it actually plays out, it ends up drawing out already long kill times, forces inaccurate shots, and grants unearned kills via a headshot off a spammed shot from the edge of the fully expanded bloom radius.
>
> tl;dr: The people who hate bloom tend to be people who are more aware of what’s going on behind the scenes in the game and how it all influences everything else and they are mad because bloom make bad players hit shots they shouldn’t have and good players miss shots that should’ve hit.
>
> Maybe a 15% Bloom Reduction is all it needs, but for what I’ve experienced with Zero Bloom customs, I would take that any day of the week over the random and inconsistent Bullet Spread we have right now.
I can understand that bloom and spread has its ups and downs at this very state. but the downs can be fixed. But I am very certain that no bloom will be abused sooner or later through distant shots. (like in maps such as hemorrhage). What I wwas meant to say is this spread was in all the games. bloom does not affect gameplay. its what the player sees. when people first started playing reach, they discovered the hidden “spread”, they all raged that halo was broken yet bungie had done nothing with the dmr. If the dmr’s cross-air was replaced with a br’s cross-air (with no bloom view) the players wouldn’t of noticed this “bloom” or spead.
> I believe you might be mistaken on your terminology, and it’s ruining your arguments.
>
> Bloom is a graphical representation in the HUD of Bullet Spread. Bullet Spread has been in all Halos, and that’s fine. The formulas used to make them work were well developed and functioned in the manner in which they were intended. But the way Bullet Spread was implemented into Reach is what people are in an uproar about.
>
> Reach’s Bullet Spread (represented graphically for the first time with Bloom) especially on the DMR uses a different set of variables in its formula to determine where the shots should go. Not only that, but it was implemented in such a way that goal of the Bullet Spread was to force players to pace their shots a distance or else suffer the consequences of an innaccurate shot (which is absurd to begin with coming from a designated MARKSMAN rifle). But when the closer the 2 players in a DMR get with each other, a faster rate of fire becomes acceptable because the Bloom should place the shot right on the guy in front of you.
>
> But it doesn’t always work like that, hence the emphasized should. If 2 players of equal skill/health/whatever else you can think of begin shooting at each other in close range, 1 of 3 things might happen. Player A might die, Player B might die, or they might trade kills with each other.
>
> AND IT IS TOTALLY RANDOM.
>
> That is what people’s problem with “Bloom” is. The way Bullet Spread was implemented looks good on paper, but when it actually plays out, it ends up drawing out already long kill times, forces inaccurate shots, and grants unearned kills via a headshot off a spammed shot from the edge of the fully expanded bloom radius.
>
> tl;dr: The people who hate bloom tend to be people who are more aware of what’s going on behind the scenes in the game and how it all influences everything else and they are mad because bloom make bad players hit shots they shouldn’t have and good players miss shots that should’ve hit.
>
> Maybe a 15% Bloom Reduction is all it needs, but for what I’ve experienced with Zero Bloom customs, I would take that any day of the week over the random and inconsistent Bullet Spread we have right now.
I can understand that bloom and spread has its ups and downs at this very state. but the downs can be fixed. But I am very certain that no bloom will be abused sooner or later through distant shots. (like in maps such as hemorrhage). What I was meant to say is this spread was in all the games. bloom does not affect gameplay. its what the player sees. when people first started playing reach, they discovered the hidden “spread”, they all raged that halo was broken yet bungie had done nothing with the dmr. If the dmr’s cross-air was replaced with a br’s cross-air (with no bloom view) the players wouldn’t of noticed this “bloom” or spead.
> > I believe you might be mistaken on your terminology, and it’s ruining your arguments.
> >
> > Bloom is a graphical representation in the HUD of Bullet Spread. Bullet Spread has been in all Halos, and that’s fine. The formulas used to make them work were well developed and functioned in the manner in which they were intended. But the way Bullet Spread was implemented into Reach is what people are in an uproar about.
> >
> > Reach’s Bullet Spread (represented graphically for the first time with Bloom) especially on the DMR uses a different set of variables in its formula to determine where the shots should go. Not only that, but it was implemented in such a way that goal of the Bullet Spread was to force players to pace their shots a distance or else suffer the consequences of an innaccurate shot (which is absurd to begin with coming from a designated MARKSMAN rifle). But when the closer the 2 players in a DMR get with each other, a faster rate of fire becomes acceptable because the Bloom should place the shot right on the guy in front of you.
> >
> > But it doesn’t always work like that, hence the emphasized should. If 2 players of equal skill/health/whatever else you can think of begin shooting at each other in close range, 1 of 3 things might happen. Player A might die, Player B might die, or they might trade kills with each other.
> >
> > AND IT IS TOTALLY RANDOM.
> >
> > That is what people’s problem with “Bloom” is. The way Bullet Spread was implemented looks good on paper, but when it actually plays out, it ends up drawing out already long kill times, forces inaccurate shots, and grants unearned kills via a headshot off a spammed shot from the edge of the fully expanded bloom radius.
> >
> > tl;dr: The people who hate bloom tend to be people who are more aware of what’s going on behind the scenes in the game and how it all influences everything else and they are mad because bloom make bad players hit shots they shouldn’t have and good players miss shots that should’ve hit.
> >
> > Maybe a 15% Bloom Reduction is all it needs, but for what I’ve experienced with Zero Bloom customs, I would take that any day of the week over the random and inconsistent Bullet Spread we have right now.
>
> I can understand that bloom and spread has its ups and downs at this very state. but the downs can be fixed. But I am very certain that no bloom will be abused sooner or later through distant shots. (like in maps such as hemorrhage). What I wwas meant to say is this spread was in all the games. bloom does not affect gameplay. its what the player sees. when people first started playing reach, they discovered the hidden “spread”, they all raged that halo was broken yet bungie had done nothing with the dmr. If the dmr’s cross-air was replaced with a br’s cross-air (with no bloom view) the players wouldn’t of noticed this “bloom” or spead.
I couldn’t disagree more. The DMR would have been viewed as the most unreliable “Main” weapon in Halo history. Bloom allowed for shots to land in to large an area.
You also have to consider that Reach gave us the option to choose accuracy or quantity. No other Halo game gave players that option. That is ultimately the problem.
> > I’m sick of the rants about reach’s bloom. Its been in every halo game. Yes, bloom does expand too much on the dmr but removing it completely is going to ruin the game.
> > If you don’t believe that halo always had bloom. watch these:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OilVqh0lhNY&feature=related
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxHwHfgT9yA
> > Adding the VIEW of bloom is what made everyone notice it. Removing bloom from the pistol and making it overpowered is an ok idea to an extent. we DO NOT want it more powerful than the dmr. Bloom SHOULD be added when you dual wield in halo 4 though.
> > Bloom can be fixed:
> > (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHGItn8JCz0)
> > and there was a reason for a view of your bloom:
> > (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-YaHOpIa1s 1:20 - 1:40)
> >
> > Mark my words, people are going to abuse the ability of no bloom after a 2 months of playing and make the multiplayer seem a little more unbalanced.
> >
> > In short. getting rid of bloom altogether will ruin the game. reducing and improving it will make the game more balanced.
>
> I’ll let you know some facts…
>
> 1. Bloom is new to halo for the precision weapons (because you’re one of those that think: auto weapon bullet spread = bloom).
> 2. Bloom in Reach is bad for competitive play, yes it is a way to balance weapons, but that still doesn’t make it good for competitive play because of its randomness.
> 3. Halo 2/3 BRs have the same killtime as the Bloomless DMR.
> 4. Playing no AAs with Classic settings and no bloom gametype is were no bloom plays best, so Team Classic.
> 5. Bloom slows down the gameplay, becuase you have to: shoot, stop, shoot, stop, shoot, stop…
>
> All of the above are facts, now comes the opinions:
>
> 1. Halo 4 will be better without blooming reticles (this depeds on the kind of person).
>
> 2. What you call spamming, which is firing the weapon at its max fire rate and trying to have flawless aim, is harder than pacing shots and having flawless aim (opinion cuz bloom can be better done).
I didn’t know much about the “spread to bloom” business before the thread. I originally meant that removing spread is going to ruin the game. Bloom isn’t going to make any difference to how the weapon works. its just a view to see how the players are pacing their shots. I see that this “view” helps with showing how the player can control their shots to kill someone quicker with time and accuracy.
Just so the OP knows, I’ve played no bloom default in hemorrhage, and also Classic.
In default cross-mapping with DMR was friggin’ easy! Sprint does nothing in a 1 vs 1 fight, so the player (me) that shot first won a better player than me (long range).
In classic cross-mapping with DMR actually took skill, I went trhough the teleporter and so did my enemy, so we were in a long range battle were I shot first, then he started strafing left/right and he made me un-scope and miss shots, eventually he won the battle, so again, I think that No Bloom should only be in Team Classic.
Don’t worry too much…
343 have said so many times that 85% bloom is what they believe in, they don’t think bloom is broken just a little too high so it ending up set to 85% on several playlists is far more likely than zero bloom…
> Don’t worry too much…
> 343 have said so many times that 85% bloom is what they believe in, they don’t think bloom is broken just a little too high so it ending up set to 85% on several playlists is far more likely than zero bloom…
I’m looking forward to playing this. The bullets will at worst land in an area no larger than the ce magnum reticule. It will make the DMR feel more reliable with out it being mindless.
edit: Also looking forward to the CE magnums return. The slowed rate of fire makes it almost spam proof. You have to be very deliberate with each and every shot.
> I have way agree with you. Was bloom in other Halo games? Not really. Not anything like it was implemented in Reach. It had to be changed. No question about that.
>
> But simply removing bloom isn’t the answer either. In my experience with zero bloom their does seem to be an awful lot of spray and pray and yes, *SPAMMING. The RoF is far too fast and makes for easy head shots. Unless the max rate of fire is lowered I will not be playing zero bloom. I’ll be more inclined to play 85% bloom.
>
> *Yes, you can spam a weapon with a capped rate of fire. Spamming is when quantity takes priority over quality. Frags can be spammed, the carbine was spammed and when people panic with the sniper in close range they tend to spam even that weapon. Playing ZB Reach I found their to be an awful lot of spamming. I like my Halo to feel more deliberate and require a bit more discipline.
I agree with you by zero spread would brake the game. I hope 343 won’t get rid of spread as well as bloom in this ZB gametype.
> >
>
> I can understand that bloom and spread has its ups and downs at this very state. but the downs can be fixed. But I am very certain that no bloom will be abused sooner or later through distant shots. (like in maps such as hemorrhage). What I was meant to say is this spread was in all the games. bloom does not affect gameplay. its what the player sees. when people first started playing reach, they discovered the hidden “spread”, they all raged that halo was broken yet bungie had done nothing with the dmr. If the dmr’s cross-air was replaced with a br’s cross-air (with no bloom view) the players wouldn’t of noticed this “bloom” or spead.
I’m not quite understanding how it’s abusive to see someone and shoot him. If you’re being shot at, it’s because someone has direct line-of-sight with you. Which means you have direct line-of-sight with them and can do the exact same thing to him, and with equal efficiency provided you possess the skill to do so.
It seems like what is fair to me is abuse to you, and it makes me think that you simply lack the ability to place your shots well or utilize things like cover (line-of-sight blockers) which is no fault of Bungie or 343.
This seems like great moment to go ahead and throw this out there…