Bleedthrough Ruined Reach

Games Other Halo
1

Title of the thread and content therein streamlined to support main argument.

TU settings do not work for Reach. Everything is different from Halo 3 and trying to make it play like Halo 3 instead created a messy hybrid. Vehicle health is different. Shield flare is different. Regenerating health is different. Weapon kill times are different. Melee lunge is different. Grenades are totally different. And none of these were addressed with the TU changes, thereby making the TU a cheap imitation of Halo 3, not a fix. Bleedthrough cannot simply be pasted onto Reach mechanics without the shield and health systems being addressed.

I am not saying default vanilla Reach was perfect, functioning as intended, or without need of fixing. However, I do not and will not support the addition of bleedthrough because I don’t believe Reach was designed for it.

Bloom is manageable yes, but it has also offset the rest of the sandbox. The game was not designed for 85% bloom, and this change only really affects the DMR, NR, and Pistol (the latter of which has since been reverted back anyway). Headshot bleedthrough puts great emphasis on aiming for the head, but it’s very inconsistent and the visual indicators were not built for it, nor were they addressed with the TU settings. The same can be said of melee bleedthrough, which quite amusingly just brings back the exact same issues it had in Halo 3. The worst part is melee lunge still was not addressed, thus 343i repeated the same mistake Bungie made from H3 to Reach.

Let’s not forget to mention how the health system was ignored. If 343 wanted to change the shield mechanics they should have also changed the health system as well. Now with bleedthrough melees and grenades are even stronger than they were before. Health should have regenerated fully like it did in Halo 3. The attempt at meshing Halo 3 mechanics with Reach mechanics does not work out correctly.

Again, vanilla Reach was not short of its own problems. In fact, most of it was downright awful and ‘unfun’ to play. However, I feel that it could have been fixed and made enjoyable to many again without the addition of bleedthrough. All of the other changes in the TU are great and necessary changes. Bleedthrough on the other hand creates more complex problems than it solves.

I’m curious to see who still wants to pull the ‘adapt’ card. It has nothing to do with ‘getting used to it’. 1000 games of TU is not going to simply make the issues that it has introduced disappear.

POSSIBLE FIXES

-Reducing Melee Damage
-110% damage resistance across the board
-Somehow updating visual indicators

2

I don’t know, all I know is 85% bloom is preferable compared to 100% bloom. 343 really needs to add some kind of visual indication of when you can die from bleedthrough.

3

> I don’t know, all I know is 85% bloom is preferable compared to 100% bloom. 343 really needs to add some kind of visual indication of when you can die from bleedthrough.

Yes, 85% is better than 100%, but that is not enough to redeem the TU for me.

4

Embarrassing double post

5

While I did play in the TU beta and the BTB, I plan on getting the biggest dose when it hits the TS and I guess all of us that play TS will =/

6

TU AL = death button because of the barrage of damage that means the person as soon as he comes out is guaranteed to die because 1 attack takes him out while the rest kills him plus the immobility and disorienting nature of AL.

AC doesn’t really bother me, it is somthing you should even spawn with IMO.

bleed through = the devil himself, because of bleed through you never know how truly vulnarable you are, people say that it’s rather simple when it isn’t, it isnt “oh, my shields look full so i’m 5sk” when your shields can appear to be full when in reality it is 1 pixel off making you 4sk as an example.

reduced bloom is the only thing i like about TU, no sword block kind of annoys me in TS because of sprint but the same time in LD i hate being denied that kill as a zombie.

i would be more detailed but i’m to lazy ATM.

7

As a whole, the two suck equally.

However, the inconsistent Armor Lock in the TU is far better than Vanilla’s six-second pause button, and sword block needs to go (though outside of Infection, Sprint-/Evade-Sword needs a cooldown to nerf it). But I agree that far more would need to be done to successfully balance Reach, and much of it probably can’t even be done with a TU. Reach is a failure, and not a redeemable one.

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> As a whole, the two suck equally.

We agree again, buddy.

9

> > As a whole, the two suck equally.
>
> We agree again, buddy.

Its only inconsistent b/c people haven’t adapted to it yet.

The AL nerf is simply a correction to an overlooked or poorly designed gameplay aspect.

The camo tweak helps lessen its superiority over long rang especially with the sniper.

Bleed through just happens to be part of the package.

I’d rather have 85% bloom with some other improvements while at the same time introducing new problems than to be stuck with a bunch of problems that borderline unplayable.

10

I definitely prefer the bloom… But it stops there :confused:

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> > > As a whole, the two suck equally.
> >
> > We agree again, buddy.
>
> Its only inconsistent b/c people haven’t adapted to it yet.
>
> The AL nerf is simply a correction to an overlooked or poorly designed gameplay aspect.
>
> The camo tweak helps lessen its superiority over long rang especially with the sniper.
>
> Bleed through just happens to be part of the package.
>
> I’d rather have 85% bloom with some other improvements while at the same time introducing new problems than to be stuck with a bunch of problems that borderline unplayable.

Nothings perfect, but I think the TU is closer than before- new problems and all.

12

> unplayable.

Maybe it’s because I’ve been playing Invasion a lot, but I don’t find vanilla Reach to be ‘unplayable’. At least, in Invasion everything works as intended.

I can see why it doesn’t work in other playlists though so I’ll probably just stick to Invasion and forget the rest. I’m really not a fan of TU at all.

13

I agree a 3 legged goat. The TU just dosent play like halo.

14

THE TITLE UPDATE SUCKS! REGULAR REACH IS BETTER!

15

85% Bloom is enough to redeem the TU for me. Despite the TU’s failings, it’s much more enjoyable than Vanilla.

16

I agree with Goat. 85% bloom is proven to be better in gameplay and in cold hard numbers, as proven by TTL.

That is a good pro of TU, but there is one big beef I have with TU. The other things like AL, and camo…eh, indifferent. Let me elaborate on my opinion of bleedthrough.

Factoring in slower recharge rate than Halo 3, if your shield bar is such a small number of pixels off from being full that you can’t notice, the larger the time frame for you to be 4 shot. Not everyone has HD TVs, this therefore can be pure BS. If a player has full shields and health, supposedly 3 shots and a melee kills them. Sometimes it works that way for me, sometimes not. I think it more closely depends on connection than vanilla settings do because of the fickle nature of bleed through. Another variable is health, it doesn’t fully recharge in this game. That just adds more complication.

17

> > unplayable.
>
> Maybe it’s because I’ve been playing Invasion a lot, but I don’t find vanilla Reach to be ‘unplayable’. At least, in Invasion everything works as intended.
>
> I can see why it doesn’t work in other playlists though so I’ll probably just stick to Invasion and forget the rest. I’m really not a fan of TU at all.

Due to the “heavy” nature of the gameplay all the AAs are kept in check with the vehicles and explosive weapons. The only playlist that should remain untouched by the TU should be Invasion b/c then the Human weapons will be too overpowering and render the gameplay completely one sided.

The DMR and Magnum are better than the NR and any plasma weapon by far. To make things worse is that Humans spawn with Magnums while the best thing Elites can get is a NR pick up leaving them completely defenseless.

Even on paper the Vanilla settings work best for Invasion but the less people and the less focus to the gameplay the more problems persist. The only way TU would be applied to Invasion is if Elites get a 10% damage and resistance buff and the Spartans remain the same which is unlikely.

In the context of Invasion, Vanilla is great but in every playlist outside of it, especially the smaller ones it ruins the experience. This is due to the nature of AAs and bloom punishing individual skill. In Invasion individual skill can only take you so far so that is why it works.

18

AL and Camo are inconsistent now? The meter is still there in the corner.

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> Because the only word that comes to my mind in TU is “inconsistent”.
>
> Don’t know when you can die from a headshot. Don’t know when you can die from a melee. Don’t know when your armor lock’s about to expire. Don’t know if your camo is working.
>
> 85% bloom is obviously better than 100%; however, that is not enough to redeem the TU for me.

Because proponents are looking at it in the narrow spectrum that effects them and their playstyle. Since it effects them positively, it’s a good thing and must be made game wide. -Yoink- everyone else.

Even 85% as it is right now being better is a narrow perspective, requiring you to ignore the fact that it further breaks the weapon sandbox and takes an already suppressed weapon and makes is even worse by comparison.

20

> Because the only word that comes to my mind in TU is “inconsistent”.
>
> Don’t know when you can die from a headshot. Don’t know when you can die from a melee. Don’t know when your armor lock’s about to expire. Don’t know if your camo is working.
>
> 85% bloom is obviously better than 100%; however, that is not enough to redeem the TU for me.

It’s funny how they managed to make one aspect of the game more consistent and at the very sametime make another anything but consistent.

I don’t really have a problem with the TU except for the bleed through. I just don’t see any need for it.

Actually, on the playlist I play, I never found any of the TU ‘fixes’ to be problems to begin with. With the exception of bloom on occasion.