I am a strong supporter of the original Reach. So I want you to see that I like the TU gametypes even if I prefer vanilla. But the bleedthrough is what ruins the experience for me. Why should I be punished when I shoot someone when they’re shields are still half up and then have them shoot me twice and punch me and kill me. How is that fair? Bleedthrough was quite possible the thing that made Halo 3 so freaking boring and repetitive. It punishes those who shoot and awards the people that decide to shoot.
The whole point of the title update in so many people’s minds was to make Halo Reach more “skillful” in the “skilled” group’s opinion. Yet the thing that many skilled Halo 3 players hated was bleedthrough. And now it’s here and nobody seems to care. I don’t want to melee someone in every close range encounter especially if I’m carrying a shotgun. Why punish me for using a gun?
The original Reach melee system was 10 times for balanced and fair. It removed AR rushing and got rid of the lack of skill of killing someone when they still have more than half their shield strength left.
I disagree. Bleed through had allowed to fight against double beat downs which was always annoying. And if you don’t want to be punished for using a gun then don’t run towards the enemy to allow them come in melee range
Vanilla removed AR rushing and added sprint-double-derping. I find that much worse as there was absolutely no beating it. As soon as he gets to a certain point, there is no reason to shoot. You might as well just let him run up to you and try to double-derp him first. Because of bleedthrough, you can now kill sprint-double-derpers and show them that it is a stupid tactic and should never have been used in the first place.
I am never punished for using a gun in the TU. I just make sure to stay far enough away that they can’t melee me. It’s a simple concept really. Just don’t get into melee battles if you don’t want to trade kills!
Shield pop did not promote close range shooting at all. How is it fair that someone can Sprint at me, I’m only able to get off 3 shots, and when we both punch, we are at the same amount of health?
Not to get into an argument, but Bleedthrough and Bloom Modification are the only 2 TU changes that if gone, I wouldn’t be able to play this game anymore.
> I disagree. Bleed through had allowed to fight against double beat downs which was always annoying. And if you don’t want to be punished for using a gun then don’t run towards the enemy to allow them come in melee range
That and how is it balanced when no matter how little of your shield is left can absorb the full damage of a melee hit?
Lower melee damage down to 75% or 50%. Beatdowns require 3 melee hits, or a combination of shooting and melee that the player can decide how to implement based on their choice and the situation they’re in.
And now we have sprint one seeping. Shoot a guy once, sprint, and then he dies. Just like before bleedthrough fails by promoting people meleeing each other instead of shooting. Why are shields even in the game if they provide no protection whatsoever? At least sprinting double melee was easy to counter. Just shoot him and then melee. You both may die, but that’s why you have other armor abilities to go against it. The beauty of balance.
Bleethrough doesn’t give any incentive to shoot at all. Luckily with the reduced bloom it should be even easier to counter sprint “double-derping” since now you can spam away at the -Yoink- and likely have him die. I can’t stand to play TU elite slayer since it’s either death by needle rifle or death by the horrid bleedthrough.
> > I disagree. Bleed through had allowed to fight against double beat downs which was always annoying. And if you don’t want to be punished for using a gun then don’t run towards the enemy to allow them come in melee range
>
> That and how is it balanced when no matter how little of your shield is left can absorb the full damage of a melee hit?
How is it fair that a melee hit can take out half my shields AND kill me? At least the old system made shooting priority over going “herp-derp shoot him once. Herp-derp hit him. Herp-derp he’s dead.”
It’s irritating that I have to adapt after a whole year to a system introduced terribly in Halo 3 and completely unbalances the game.
> And now we have sprint one seeping. Shoot a guy once, sprint, and then he dies.
How does you sprinting make him keel over and die??? So I shoot a guy, then I sprint somewhere and he falls over dead?? What are you talking about?
Even with bleedthrough, you still have to shoot the person 3 times with a DMR before a melee will become lethal.
> It punishes those who shoot and awards the people that decide to shoot.
what? it punishes and rewards shooting?
that makes no sense.
> It’s irritating that I have to adapt after a whole year to a <mark>system introduced terribly in Halo 3</mark> and completely unbalances the game.
Wait…what??? Are you seriously suggesting that bleedthrough was introduced in Halo 3??? Oh wow.
> > > I disagree. Bleed through had allowed to fight against double beat downs which was always annoying. And if you don’t want to be punished for using a gun then don’t run towards the enemy to allow them come in melee range
> >
> > That and how is it balanced when no matter how little of your shield is left can absorb the full damage of a melee hit?
>
> How is it fair that a melee hit can take out half my shields AND kill me? At least the old system made shooting priority over going “herp-derp shoot him once. Herp-derp hit him. Herp-derp he’s dead.”
>
> It’s irritating that I have to adapt after a whole year to a system introduced terribly in Halo 3 and completely unbalances the game.
Shooting was never a priority in default reach.
There was a kid who went Positive by using beatdowns only.
He would of went negative if this game had bleed.
> > It punishes those who shoot and awards the people that decide to shoot.
>
> what? it punishes and rewards shooting?
>
> that makes no sense.
Hehe, yah I was laughing at that one, but decided to leave it alone and chalk it up to random ramblings.
But after the last few postsfrom this guy, I’m not so sure anymore.
> > It’s irritating that I have to adapt after a whole year to a <mark>system introduced terribly in Halo 3</mark> and completely unbalances the game.
>
> Wait…what??? Are you seriously suggesting that bleedthrough was introduced in Halo 3??? Oh wow.
Oh god, this is going to my for the the misinformed thread now.
Questions of fairness get us no where as it is too easy to frame the issue in a biased manner.
> > > I disagree. Bleed through had allowed to fight against double beat downs which was always annoying. And if you don’t want to be punished for using a gun then don’t run towards the enemy to allow them come in melee range
> >
> > That and how is it balanced when no matter how little of your shield is left can absorb the full damage of a melee hit?
>
> How is it fair that a melee hit can take out half my shields AND kill me? At least the old system made shooting priority over going “herp-derp shoot him once. Herp-derp hit him. Herp-derp he’s dead.”
>
> It’s irritating that I have to adapt after a whole year to a system introduced terribly in Halo 3 and completely unbalances the game.
Well if they can shoot you 3 times and then hit you before you kill them then you should of been prepared for that before getting into that close range scenario. Keep your distance
> > > It punishes those who shoot and awards the people that decide to shoot.
> >
> > what? it punishes and rewards shooting?
> >
> > that makes no sense.
>
> Hehe, yah I was laughing at that one, but decided to leave it alone and chalk it up to random ramblings.
>
> But after the last few postsfrom this guy, I’m not so sure anymore.
i’m sure he meant punishes shooting and rewards meleeing, the least he could have done is edited to it’s correct instead of being a contradiction.
anyway, bleed through rewards shooting, but also rewards meleeing to much, no bleed would actually reward shooting more and punish meleeing if it wasn’t for sprint and evade allowing people to cross distances fast enough for double melee to be effective, without them the argument “just walk backwards” would also be a valid argument.
> And now we have sprint one seeping. Shoot a guy once, sprint, and then he dies. Just like before bleedthrough fails by promoting people meleeing each other instead of shooting. Why are shields even in the game if they provide no protection whatsoever? At least sprinting double melee was easy to counter. Just shoot him and then melee. You both may die, but that’s why you have other armor abilities to go against it. The beauty of balance.
>
> Bleethrough doesn’t give any incentive to shoot at all. Luckily with the reduced bloom it should be even easier to counter sprint “double-derping” since now you can spam away at the -Yoink!- and likely have him die. I can’t stand to play TU elite slayer since it’s either death by needle rifle or death by the horrid bleedthrough.
Just shoot them and then melee? You had to drop their shields before they were able to get their first melee hit in. That is not a very effective counter.
Melee bleed through creates a fairer playing ground since now the opponent of the sprinting double melee actually can counter with shooting and a melee.
> Vanilla removed AR rushing and added sprint-double-derping. I find that much worse as there was absolutely no beating it. As soon as he gets to a certain point, there is no reason to shoot.
At this point it’s a matter of how many shots you’ve put into the enemy. You have 1000ms between melees from the enemy. In that time you can fire 2 DMR shots and a melee, 3 NR shots and a melee, about 10 AR bullets and a melee, 4 Pistol shots or 3 Pistol shots and a melee, 6 plasma pistol shots and a melee (though it’s 3 to down shields so…), and whatever your mind can come up with at that exact moment considering everything going on on the map and the weapons in your hand at that very moment…
Haven’t even mentioned using AL or Evade as an alternate means to avoid the melees.
No way to escape? Far from it.
No prefereble way to escape. No familiar way to escape. True.
No way to escape Vanilla Reach’s game-play? False.
Something not yet discoverd through game-play but should have been pointed out long ago;
Thanks to bleed-through, a player can take a melee without much awareness and still kill the meleeing player.
It’s all in the numbers above, though the AR needs only about 4 bullets to allow a melee kill, the PP needs only 2.
The weapon out in CQB pretty much determines the winner of a fight, both sides being equal in skill. It only takes 250ms for 2 Pistol shots and like 150ms for 2 Plasma Pistol shots, think about.
So it is that if a player does NOT shoot first, they can still loose.
It takes 1000ms to throw 2 melees and 800-1000ms to fire 2 DMR shots and 1 melee.
It’s neither a bad thing nor a good thing IMO, but it is something you anti-melee’rs/pro-shooting guys should have recognised and boasted as part of your prefered way to play.
Meleeing in Reach with bleed-through should be a last effort thing, not a first. There is a gap to loose if damage isn’t inflicted before meleeing. And the weapon doing that damage will determine the winner due to RoF differences.
> You might as well just let him run up to you and try to double-derp him first. Because of bleedthrough, you can now kill sprint-double-derpers and show them that it is a stupid tactic and should never have been used in the first place.
>
> I am never punished for using a gun in the TU. I just make sure to stay far enough away that they can’t melee me. It’s a simple concept really. Just don’t get into melee battles if you don’t want to trade kills!
There is a way to beat a sprinting Spartan intent on meleeing you twice that has made it this far.
You bash them back, jump backwards while doing so, and follow up with a burst of your AR or a shot to the head of your precision weapon.
But that’s only if you can’t down their shields in time before they get to you.
> > > > I disagree. Bleed through had allowed to fight against double beat downs which was always annoying. And if you don’t want to be punished for using a gun then don’t run towards the enemy to allow them come in melee range
> > >
> > > That and how is it balanced when no matter how little of your shield is left can absorb the full damage of a melee hit?
> >
> > How is it fair that a melee hit can take out half my shields AND kill me? At least the old system made shooting priority over going “herp-derp shoot him once. Herp-derp hit him. Herp-derp he’s dead.”
> >
> > It’s irritating that I have to adapt after a whole year to a system introduced terribly in Halo 3 and completely unbalances the game.
>
> Shooting was never a priority in default reach.
>
> There was a kid who went Positive by using beatdowns only.
>
> He would of went negative if this game had bleed.
Here’s a video of a kid who went positive in Arena using only beatdowns. This shows how bad the non-bleedthrough system can be.