If the fans stopped complaining about nothing all the time, Bungie would probably still be here making the game but no, you drove them away and now trying to do the same thing to 343. All this because of a severe case of nostalgia. The first game in a series is the most important because it establishes a base for the future games to build off of. H4 imo was a great start for 343’s tenure with the franchise. It had basically everything fans said they expect a Halo game to have, nice variety of maps and modes including infection and BTB, full progression system with unlocks, upgraded forge, theater, great netcode, and local/online co-op. Besides a few balancing issues in the multiplayer, there was nothing wrong with H4, but fans still hated the game primarily for philosophical reasons. This started the downward trend for 343 with this franchise because they couldn’t carry over what they accomplished in H4 to H5 and build on top of it, they had to start over, and so 343 hasn’t been able to release a complete Halo game since.
What makes this fanbase so toxic is the fact that rarely constructive feedback gets passed around on how something can be improved, it’s almost always, ‘I don’t like this, it’s not Halo, get rid of it’. With H4’s multiplayer, ‘It’s too much like CoD, loadouts, armor abilities (would be ok if everyone had them), ordinance, too casual, sprint, throw it all away, equal starts is Halo’. 343 took all of the feedback, built H5 off of this feedback only to hear, ‘Get rid of spartan abilities (even though we said it would be ok if everyone had them), sprint, not balanced, it’s not Halo, 343 doesn’t listen, etc’. Once again 343 takes the feedback, starts over, and finally releases HI, ‘Gameplay is great not enough content, there focusing on competitive too much (because you asked them to), there moving too slow, tired of waiting, get rid of 343’. All of this complaining has only made things worse over time and we’ve been getting less since.
And about the ‘get rid of 343’ thing, this has been a trendy thing to say, and I don’t understand how this is supposed to help the franchise or HI. Firstly, no studio is going to want to work on a franchise with a fanbase as toxic as this one, even 343 is probably having trouble getting new people in the studio. Secondly, if by some miracle, Halo found a new developer, you’re STILL GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT for this new studio to get things done. If they use the same engine, they have to learn it first. If they use a new engine, a brand new game will have to be made which would put a substantial amount of pressure on the studio, having to live up to Bungie and 343, while still expanding the game and maintaining the ‘Halo’ feel. This franchise the way we know it, is basically done. This is just too tall of a task for any studio to deal with, and the only option to keep the franchise going would be to make a new game following a new direction and not look back.
This isn’t even close to accurate. Bungie was always hoping to gain their independence from Microsoft. They barely even wanted to make sequels to Halo.
You have no power here.
That’s just what I believe, should have put imo.
Yeah people seem to heavily overlook the fact that 343 has listened to feedback and acted because of it. The problem seems to especially stem from the fact that 343 is having trouble knowing what we want because we complain about every. Single. Thing. Honestly, a lot of the fans seem to be blinded by memories of an age long past (halo CE-3 times) and can’t accept the fact that new games are coming out that happen to be different. If 343 does stop working on halo, it will not be the same again.
I mean, there’s literally decades of interviews and post-mortems regarding Bungie through this era. Doesn’t make sense to believe something that’s so demonstrably false, your opinions about the fandom aside.
This is equally inaccurate as it is accurate.
Sure the fans complain but I mostly see valuable arguments. The problem isn’t the fans. The problem is reddit. And HCS.
They BELIEVE EVERYTHING should be for competition.
Like weapons v maps. Weapons didn’t need to be balanced for maps because MAPS BALANCED WEAPONS.
This includes things like sprint, vehicle distribution and so forth. Remember when some maps had one side with all vehicles and it was simple a G.A. to not use them?
You can’t sit here and say the entire state of halo is on the fans.
NO ONE ASKED FOR A FTP halo. That was corporate greed.
EVERYONE demands Bonnie Ross steps down. Where is she?
The players demand playable elites. Where are they?
The players demanded no sprint. It’s still here.
You say the state of halo is this way because of the fans but blatantly ignore how much the fans cry out for and how much 343 cradles HCS.
Ok so if they barely wanted to make sequels for Halo and there are plenty of interviews and post-mortems to support this then why do fans keep asking to bring back Bungie, or individuals from Bungie?
Ok so if they barely wanted to make sequels for Halo and there are plenty of interviews and post-mortems to support this then why do fans keep asking to bring back Bungie, or individuals from Bungie?
I mean, it’s because they want Bungie or previous employees to come back to work on the game?
Is that rhetorical? That is completely separate from what the wants of the studio or developers were/are known to be. Even if those desires come from a place of admiration for the games that Bungie developed, fans can want whatever they want. However, it has no impact on the reality of the situation.
That not even close to what happened. Bungie was done with Halo after Reach and they wanted to move onto other projects. Reach was their test bed for Destiny. Microsoft wanted them to continue making Halo but they were done so they formed 343 to make Halo.
Most people that play this game don’t care about the ‘issues’ you listed. The fans can’t say Halo is a flagship title for Xbox but then trash the game because the devs want to take their time on things that are trivial or make changes that may conflict with what the general population wants.
I always find it funny when people say “blame the fans” as an easy copout for a developers inability to produce a popular product.
You dont hear this excuse for other games
Doom lost its way and delivered a dissapointing game and instead of “blaming the fans” they went out and created a great game.
Call of Duty went away from what made them extremely popular and instead of “blaming the fans” they made COD 2019 and warzone and made the nost money they ever have
The fans have no control over 343s inability to fix bugs and generate content. 343 actually nailed the gameplay noone is complaining about that anymore. Everyone is upset with their false promises of fixes and content none of which the fans have control of
How is a free game corporate greed?
How is a free game corporate greed?
It’s exchanging standard series features for monetized versions that make money over time. (Battle Pass vs Unlockables; Color Customization vs Coatings, etc.)
The model shifts from $60 up front to significantly more over a longer period of time. It’s the tradeoff of features for more revenue that typically rubs people the wrong way.
Edit: Most F2P games have revenue models like this, so it’s not just a Halo problem
Ugh reddit is largely all social players and don’t have any concept of competitive play at all. They hate HCS even more than the people here do.
I agree with you - but if you’ve ever supported ANY other f2p game, you are to blame. F2P is a very profitable model, they are going to chase that. By extension, I’d wager big the majority of halo fans have contributed in moving toward a F2P model. I’d say the biggest consequence of F2P is stopping cheaters is difficult since you can just make a new account.
I’d love to have no sprint and sliding but I think you are vastly over estimating the people who would comeback to halo if sprint is removed. Had my nephew who is only 8 years younger than me play MCC and he was just like where the f is sprint. His entire generation is pretty similar, they just want speed and movement.
You mis interpret my point. It’s not a matter of bringing players back; It’s a point of if they had actually listened it wouldn’t even be a debate past h4
This is a misunderstanding of why people disliked H4.
In Halo 4 343:
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Drastically changed the art style just to be different
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It killes Halo’s arena shooter origins by adding classes
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The campaign drastically altered Chief and Cortana and definitely has people make irrational decisions like Del Rio not trusting Chief just to add fake drama. They all changed the nature of the Forerunners and added the poorly designed prometheans to fight. The Didact has to be the worst villan in a game i have seen.
The game itself was fun and had cool modes but definitely is the worst Halo game by far.
Due to your misunderstanding of H4 you also misunderstand the H5 criticism.
For the same reason Advanced Movement in COD did not work, it does not work in Halo. Halo 5 would have been better off as a new IP similar to how COD devs left and made Titanfall. That new IP flourished and COD returned to boots on the ground gameplay. On top of this the Halo 5 maps were just terrible and lazily built in forge towards the end of the game and it still had the changed art style from Halo 4. H5 had a bad campaign but no where near as bad as 4s.
Honestly Halo Infinite has dang near perfected gameplay IMO. Its super smooth and feels good to play. Vehicles are a little weak and the BR is still a tad too strong but other than that its been enjoyable. I am not sure why they got rid of performance based xp as that is a staple to any game and going free to play was a pure profit motive and has its own consequences such as a store, season passes, and inevitably the art style gets corrupted by flashy and out of place cosmetics.
Yea they should have just killed sprint off after the travesty of H4 multiplayer. Some of us would enjoy the gameplay more, others would outright leave. Not having to balance weapons and maps though with sprint/slide/clamber in mind though would probably be easier for 343 too. Not to mention, desync appears to be worse when traveling quickly in the game (grapple, repulse, sliding, super slide).
I have a whole thread going over the history of the Halo franchise on here and i think it accurately portrays the sentiment fans have had towards the games which you seem to be misunderstanding.
https://forums.halowaypoint.com/t/a-breif-history-of-halo/494733
“A Brief History of Halo”
This post is bang on. I think more than anything, people have come to expect a certain amount of content. With each new game in a series, we are hoping for more, yet Halo Infinite has delivered less.
There is just far too much missing from Halo Infinite right now to really call it a true Halo experience. When has releasing a game before it is fully developed ever been positively received? Why should fans be happy about missing content they’ve come to expect with Halo?