Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight

> 'Firefight Pro’
> - Gameplay example – v1 ((slightly different loadout setup)
> - Download gametype – v2 [Gametype specifics]
>
> - For limited: remove or extend time limit, set the win condition to one set or higher, and increase lives to 10.
>
> Mirror: bungie.net

In my experience Firefight pits the player against relatively dull bullet sponges, which matchmaking attempts to compensate for with ridiculous loadouts, damage modifiers and a large, if not infinite, pool of lives. The only plausible explanation I can think of for playing Firefight in its current form is that is offers a sizeable pay out of credits. Campaign lacks even a plausible explanation.

However, like many aspects of Reach, both Campaign and Firefight are theoretically sound. The levels are well designed and the AI can flank, rush and fall back when necessary. The problem is that the current set-up does not lend well to any of these AI behaviours. You can choose to face dim witted and weak opponents, or more co-ordinated foes with near impregnable shielding; neither option is particularly enjoyable and both restrict variety.

This problem has persisted since Halo 2. In Halo 2 some Elites had the equivalent of 3x Overshields, yet they never advanced on the player, choosing instead to sit back and sponge clip after clip. All this did, aside from highlighting the shortcomings of enemy AI, was force the player to use a smaller pool of weapons in order to progress. Halo CE by comparison pitted you, the player, against weaker but more aggressive foes; difficulty came from enemies punishing your every error in combat, rather than punishing your poorly equipped presence. On the second mission for example it was not uncommon for Elites to run up the hillside, charging your position. Despite this aggression a skilled player could decimate Covenant squads with anything at their disposal, be it with a Plasma Rifle and its quick shield dissipation and freezing effect, the ‘elite killer’ Needler, the overcharged plasma pistol or powerful grenades. This created fast paced, challenging exchanges and allowed players to enjoy the breadth as well as the depth of the weapon sandbox. Difficulty in subsequent campaigns has been intensified by bolstering AI health, rather than increasing its ferocity.

[rant]Before I continue I would like to express my agreement that Halo 2’s campaign, like its prequel, should be noted for its difficulty. However I believe it gains this reputation for the wrong reasons if we look at it from a gameplay point of view (reasons comparable to Halo 3 and little better in Halo Reach). What Halo 2 had was a harsh learning curve which is misinterpreted as difficulty (although I admit some levels [aka Gravemind] were particularly challenging). By a learning curve I mean that it was only once the player acknowledged the value of the plasma pistol that they could pass the first hanger bay of Cairo Station [with complete ease might I add] and that any level containing Jackal Snipers required the player to repeatedly replay sections until they had memorised the location of each sniper, as each wrong step was met with instant death again, and again; neither of these factors relied on any significant level of gaming prowess, instead they stifled variety and made gameplay frustrating.

[/rant]For a time I couldn’t put my finger on the reason I enjoy the Campaign of CE more than its sequels. However here I believe I have finally found the answer. Simply put, strong [or ‘unfair’] enemies are not only a pain in the -Yoink- to fight, they are boring. When I shoot something I should not have to unload an entire clip before my foe’s shields have even popped, regardless of the difficulty. In Combat I should have multiple options, even -if not particularly- on Legendary. This comes with lower enemy health, but it also comes with a higher level of AI aggression that forces the need for quick decision making (which is otherwise only found in multiplayer). As a consequence of such changes I would be punished because the enemy actually outsmarted or outplayed me, rather than because I failed to use the plasma pistol. Reach has succeeded quite well in producing the latter (increased aggression), but rendered this pointless by failing to produce the former (lowering enemy health).

However, there may be a way to find the fun in Firefight. As already explained, Reach has a great deal of potential because of the intelligence and behaviour of the enemy AI. As Firefight is the only medium where AI and player traits can be altered it may be possible to turn this intelligence an asset, rather than it just being a frustration on higher difficulty levels. I initially came up with this idea when playing Doubles Attack several months back. It was the damage change in 2x Score Attack that injected some level of enjoyment. As a player I felt less restrained, I could leave the confines of the base on Unearthed and deal a good level of damage to the Covenant; this was particularly the case with the Rocket Hog. The only issue with the 2x gametype was that I felt no vulnerability; increased damage was coupled with an additional layer of shielding which completely negated any need for caution or cooperative play. This is why I feel completely changing the dynamics of Firefight would be beneficial.

The past week or so I’ve been without access to XBL so [I decided to try putting my theory into practice](http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/fileshare.aspx?player=Tom T 117) (filename: Firefight Pro (play legendary)). The result is by no means perfect; even after a dozen or so iterations I’m not completely happy with it (so I can begin to understand the frustrations of designers!). The main things I have done are increase the player movement traits so that they are equivalent to Team Classic (to speed up gameplay and map movement); alter player shield and health charge times so that the player can frequently dip in and out of combat, rather than having to endure long periods of stagnation while waiting for their shields to recharge; heighten AI awareness (by using the wave traits eagle eyed and sharp) to produce even more aggressive characteristics; and reduce the damage the AI can deal and the damage the AI can take, so that they are placed on a more even footing with the player. With these changes I hope players will feel less restricted in terms of both weapon usage and map movement.

The purpose of this thread, aside from providing a nice opportunity to rant about/discuss the mechanics of campaign, is to also try and find the fun in Firefight. I welcome you to share your views on the campaign of all the Halo games from a gameplay perspective, try out the altered setup and maybe even share your own.

Got any gameplay videos? I want to see how the AI perform.

Also read in B.net forums

I have yet to try the gametype but it is queued up on my XBL.

I think balancing out firefight and making it focus on SURVIVAL rather than super strong and ultra-nimble Elites getting blasted away by infinite rockets and FRG’s is important for Halo 4.

In ODST, Firefight was better because although we had no shields, the brutes weren’t too strong (except for the invicibility-on-command Chieftans) but with our toolset and the sandbox design, increasing numbers became what made the game harder not nearly untoachable Elites and unprecedented aim on the AI. The latter makes the game frustrating and boring. Reach’s FF has been reduced to arcade runs and commendation boosters.

343 NEEDS to see this.

> In my experience Firefight pits the player against relatively dull bullet sponges, which matchmaking attempts to compensate for with ridiculous loadouts, damage modifiers and a large, if not infinite, pool of lives. The only plausible explanation I can think of for playing Firefight in its current form is that is offers a sizeable pay out of credits. Campaign lacks even a plausible explanation.
>
> However, like many aspects of Reach, both Campaign and Firefight are theoretically sound. The levels are well designed and the AI can flank, rush and fall back when necessary. The problem is that the current set-up does not lend well to any of these AI behaviours. You can choose to face dim witted and weak opponents, or more co-ordinated foes with near impregnable shielding; neither option is particularly enjoyable and both restrict variety.
>
> This problem has persisted since Halo 2. In Halo 2 some Elites had the equivalent of 3x Overshields, yet they never advanced on the player, choosing instead to sit back and sponge clip after clip. All this did, aside from highlighting the shortcomings of enemy AI, was force the player to use a smaller pool of weapons in order to progress. Halo CE by comparison pitted you, the player, against weaker but more aggressive foes; difficulty came from enemies punishing your every error in combat, rather than punishing your poorly equipped presence. On the second mission for example it was not uncommon for Elites to run up the hillside, charging your position. Despite this aggression a skilled player could decimate Covenant squads with anything at their disposal, be it with a Plasma Rifle and its quick shield dissipation and freezing effect, the ‘elite killer’ Needler, the overcharged plasma pistol or powerful grenades. This created fast paced, challenging exchanges and allowed players to enjoy the breadth as well as the depth of the weapon sandbox. Difficulty in subsequent campaigns has been intensified by bolstering AI health, rather than increasing its ferocity.
>
> [rant]Before I continue I would like to express my agreement that Halo 2’s campaign, like its prequel, should be noted for its difficulty. However I believe it gains this reputation for the wrong reasons if we look at it from a gameplay point of view (reasons comparable to Halo 3 and little better in Halo Reach). What Halo 2 had was a harsh learning curve which is misinterpreted as difficulty (although I admit some levels [aka Gravemind] were particularly challenging). By a learning curve I mean that it was only once the player acknowledged the value of the plasma pistol that they could pass the first hanger bay of Cairo Station [with complete ease might I add] and that any level containing Jackal Snipers required the player to repeatedly replay sections until they had memorised the location of each sniper, as each wrong step was met with instant death again, and again; neither of these factors relied on any significant level of gaming prowess, instead they stifled variety and made gameplay frustrating.
>
> [/rant]For a time I couldn’t put my finger on the reason I enjoy the Campaign of CE more than its sequels. However here I believe I have finally found the answer. Simply put, strong [or ‘unfair’] enemies are not only a pain in the Yoink! to fight, they are boring. When I shoot something I should not have to unload an entire clip before my foe’s shields have even popped, regardless of the difficulty. In Combat I should have multiple options, even -if not particularly- on Legendary. This comes with lower enemy health, but it also comes with a higher level of AI aggression that forces the need for quick decision making (which is otherwise only found in multiplayer). As a consequence of such changes I would be punished because the enemy actually outsmarted or outplayed me, rather than because I failed to use the plasma pistol. Reach has succeeded quite well in producing the latter (increased aggression), but rendered this pointless by failing to produce the former (lowering enemy health).
>
> However, there may be a way to find the fun in Firefight. As already explained, Reach has a great deal of potential because of the intelligence and behaviour of the enemy AI. As Firefight is the only medium where AI and player traits can be altered it may be possible to turn this intelligence an asset, rather than it just being a frustration on higher difficulty levels. I initially came up with this idea when playing Doubles Attack several months back. It was the damage change in 2x Score Attack that injected some level of enjoyment. As a player I felt less restrained, I could leave the confines of the base on Unearthed and deal a good level of damage to the Covenant; this was particularly the case with the Rocket Hog. The only issue with the 2x gametype was that I felt no vulnerability; increased damage was coupled with an additional layer of shielding which completely negated any need for caution or cooperative play. This is why I feel completely changing the dynamics of Firefight would be beneficial.
>
> The past week or so I’ve been without access to XBL so [url=http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/fileshare.aspx?player=Tom >I decided to try putting my theory into practice (filename: Firefight Pro (play legendary)). The result is by no means perfect; even after a dozen or so iterations I’m not completely happy with it (so I can begin to understand the frustrations of designers!). The main things I have done are increase the player movement traits so that they are equivalent to Team Classic (to speed up gameplay and map movement); alter player shield and health charge times so that the player can frequently dip in and out of combat, rather than having to endure long periods of stagnation while waiting for their shields to recharge; heighten AI awareness (by using the wave traits eagle eyed and sharp) to produce even more aggressive characteristics; and reduce the damage the AI can deal and the damage the AI can take, so that they are placed on a more even footing with the player. With these changes I hope players will feel less restricted in terms of both weapon usage and map movement.
>
> The purpose of this thread, aside from providing a nice opportunity to rant about/discuss the mechanics of campaign, is to also try and find the fun in Firefight. I welcome you to share your views on the campaign of all the Halo games from a gameplay perspective, try out the altered setup and maybe even share your own.

after much beard-stroking deliberation I have decided.

I like you.

Agreed whole-heartedly.

a bungie.net forum ninja in 343 forums…

this should be interesting

> a bungie.net forum ninja in 343 forums…
>
>
>
> this should be interesting

How? People are still people.

I also think that one of the problems with Firefight is the addition of the DMR, and ammunition boxes. In ODST, there was no one weapon that could completely control the field. The Automag was very deadly against unshielded enemies, but useless against Brutes. The SMG could effectively remove shields, but had a low ammunition count. Yes, the Carbine was a part of the Firefight sandbox, but it had to be gathered up from a dead Jackal, and when the Famine skull came on, ammunition became a big problem. The player also had to manage how much ammo they collected for the two starting weapons, as there was only a small amount on the stands near spawn points.

Now, with Reach, we have a weapon that can be used off the spawn which can crush enemies anywhere on the map. Ammo boxes mean that scouring for weapons is no longer a requirement. In order for standard Firefight to be challenging again, the DMR, in my opinion, should not be available immediately; instead it could be scattered around a map like certain UNSC weapons were in ODST, and ammo boxes should be removed, an option that we do have. This would lead to a return of some of the old tactics that are no longer prevalent in Reach.

> Got any gameplay videos? I want to see how the AI perform.

I had a lot of gameplay I wanted to upload. Unfortunately I did not realise you cannot upload film clips to your fileshare if they were created offline. As the majority of my clips were in that format the best I can offer is a full gameplay video.

Here

Well said, OP. Very well said.

I have done a bit of tweaking around with firefight as well and it can be a pretty fun experience provided you have the patience and persistence to fine tune everything. In my case I removed shields and bumped up damage resistance, health recharge, and speed as well as tuning up the gravity a bit. It encourages use of cover and avoiding enemy fire since you can still die quite easily (especially from explosives), and the health system in Reach works well as med packs are still vital and while your health recharges it will only refill to those three levels of health (full, medium, and low).

Still need to fix the wave composition, though it is interesting to fight against thirty Jackal Snipers.

same here.

I loved odst FF. reach firefight has a lot to be desired.

Im curretly testing some settings where gameplay is on normal difficulty and players are one shot.

Me and my friends decided almost immediately after the release of reach that its firefight paled incredibly compared to ODST.

I love that they’re trying to make their own version of -Yoink!- Zombies, I do. But playing Firefight should feel more like this:
http://thecia.com.au/reviews/r/images/running-scared-5.jpg

Instead of this:
http://gamesnet.vo.llnwd.net/o1/gamestar/objects/533491_main.jpg

Honestly, I hope for Halo 4 that they just scrap the idea altogether, and make it a “Zombie-esque” you vs. the Flood, wave after wave. Nothing could ever be scarier.

Recon is best ninja.

All it needs is the removal of bloom, bleed through for the Elites, rechargable health and the removal of health packs, and it’s great.

I’ve been trying, for a long time, to put my finger on all of the things that made ODST Firefight better than Reach Firefight. OP, you just described one of them perfectly: enemies were more agile and more fragile – they actually came after us, and most deaths resulted from a failure to handle that rather than because a damage sponge was running around nuking players.

I’ve also watched your gameplay video, and… Well, your gametype’s download count’s about to go up. :slight_smile:

Wow. Up until now, I couldn’t quite put my finger on the reason why Halo 1 campaign was so much more fun to play than any other campaign. Halo 1 is the only Halo game which I have enjoyed playing on Legendary.

You are absolutely correct Tom. Good work!

> All it needs is the removal of bloom, bleed through for the Elites, rechargable health and the removal of health packs, and it’s great.

One thing that’s been realy disappointing for me in regards to the title update is the fact that (whether it’s easy to do or hard for 343) no modifications were made in this manner ^^ in firefight. There’s also been no real updates to any of the Firefight playlists (AFAIK) since Bungie turned over control. As it stands I don’t feel that the current conditions (at least in regards to the Score Attack playlist) are really that balanced anyway.

The Score Attack playlist IMO has sucked for sometime and very much in comparison to Firefight Arcade. Limited ammo and NO radar are IMO an annoying handicap to have - not because it makes it THAT much more difficult, but because it slows down action (and restricts us with weapons given a lack of ammo for say the Needle Rifle) and particularly in the case of radar - there is no game time that allows for that luxury. Damage is TOO high in 2X Score Attack; to the point that drivers in vehicles will die BEFORE the vehicle (cheating players out of vehicle kills). Also while I enjoy Firefight Limited occasionally - the same cannot be said for Vanilla Score Attack.

For one thing, the lack of dynamic enemy appearances in waves is annoying - both for inconsistent difficulty compared with firefight limited and for repetitiveness. The fact that in Score Attack we can have a whole wave of meatshield Brutes or pesky Skirmishers is a huge difference to even Firefight Limited where we’ll have a variety (usually jackal’s or Grunts accompanying different key enemies. I know Score Attack would lose a bit of purpose if such a change is made of course (since it’s harder to legitimately beat someones score with different conditions), but IMO that side of things has hardly mattered for sometime and besides - it’s not always the same anyway (e.g. in the Hunter Boss wave there can sometimes be 4 OR 8 Elites randomly).

What really would have been nice is to have had more frequent rotation of varients (hell maybe a "random firefight playlist that assigns different skull combinations and is different each play through though that’s a bit complex I imagine). Or even a daily/weekly/monthly changing varient that is updated with different combinations and where the firefight challenges are based in. I mean with so many possibilities would it really be that hard to at least change up the rotation in a similar way to challenges? Firefight will always have limitations but that would make for nice change and for something new.

> > All it needs is the removal of bloom, bleed through for the Elites, rechargable health and the removal of health packs, and it’s great.
>
> One thing that’s been realy disappointing for me in regards to the title update is the fact that (whether it’s easy to do or hard for 343) no modifications were made in this manner ^^ in firefight. There’s also been no real updates to any of the Firefight playlists (AFAIK) since Bungie turned over control. As it stands I don’t feel that the current conditions (at least in regards to the Score Attack playlist) are really that balanced anyway.

I do think Score Attack would benefit from something of this sort. The player could also receive credit bonuses for round completion, completion in under X minutes and completion with no deaths, to generate further interest. However, it is unlikely Firefight will receive a great deal of attention, or that concepts such as this one will be pushed through. Firefight does not tend to be especially popular amongst the more vocal population.

Great post OP!

I love ODST Firefight. You have to be smart how you play and always have the correct weapon in hand. Reach gave us bottomless clips a cache of ammo. I couldn’t put my finger on why I like ODST so much more until I read this post. Hope 343 reads this and takes notice!!

ODST Firefight was fantastic but the weapons used by the Covenant were much more balenced in ODST. Brutes didn’t charge you for no reason and insta-kill punch you (I hate you so much Heretics). Jackals never headshoted you with either the Carbines or Beam Rifle (on Legendary, it was instant kill). Grunts could not Overcharge you and have their friends blast you with FRGs. The Phantoms did not have stupid Concussion Rifle shots, and the Brute Shot’s blast radius was much better and didn’t set off a bazillion sticky grenades. Also, certain maps were geared to Vehicle combat, whereas Reach just throws vehicles in some maps for the sake of having them (like many BTB Forge maps). A Wraith inside the Corvette’s Hangar? Seriously? That eliminates 95% of the map, forcing you to fight in the spawn zone until you get a brief respite. You can’t even jack them because of the Spirit Concussion shots and Grunts with FRGs and Elites that drop on top of you. FF in Reach has some huge issues in Limited mode, which is probably why no one plays it except noobs who think they’re invincible and take up 9 of your ten lives and then AFK.

> ODST Firefight was fantastic but the weapons used by the Covenant were much more balenced in ODST. Brutes didn’t charge you for no reason and insta-kill punch you (I hate you so much Heretics). Jackals never headshoted you with either the Carbines or Beam Rifle (on Legendary, it was instant kill). Grunts could not Overcharge you and have their friends blast you with FRGs. The Phantoms did not have stupid Concussion Rifle shots, and the Brute Shot’s blast radius was much better and didn’t set off a bazillion sticky grenades. Also, certain maps were geared to Vehicle combat, whereas Reach just throws vehicles in some maps for the sake of having them (like many BTB Forge maps). A Wraith inside the Corvette’s Hangar? Seriously? That eliminates 95% of the map, forcing you to fight in the spawn zone until you get a brief respite. You can’t even jack them because of the Spirit Concussion shots and Grunts with FRGs and Elites that drop on top of you. FF in Reach has some huge issues in Limited mode, which is probably why no one plays it except noobs who think they’re invincible and take up 9 of your ten lives and then AFK.

I do agree that ODST Firefight (at least in regards to A.I. and enemy strength [not including skulls]) felt a lot less frustrating and a lot more fun AS IS. I could swear even the ODST you play as in ODST can take more damage. One stupid plasma charge shot or several needle rifles at once leaves you helpless (this can happen in mere seconds in the open layouts and nature of the AI), and with constant reckless enemies rushing your position and (a) FRG shot spams or (b) Plasma Grenade/chain reactions later: you’re dead all too quickly (never ran into that issue or at least no where near as often in ODST).

Brutes were a lot more easier to dispatch than Elites though particularly given the size and their more calculating cautious nature in ODST (rather than the damn meatshields rushing you, shooting spikers from a distance with amazing accuracy, surviving your shots and melee to instantly kill you). Yet their cunningness and toughness in numbers and in the (IMO) much more interesting and better built maps still made for a fair challenge at times.

And well, Concussion Rifles are possibly my most hated weapon in all of Firefight. It’s one thing using it, but I find it’s far too unpredictable (all too often causes a loss of control and fluke hits by setting of chain reactions). The fact that ODST didn’t have that to worry about makes a big difference.

IMO the thing that sucks about Limited though is the seemingly tough resistance the enemy has (or lack of strength many weapons have) and the fragile nature of your spartan (as mentioned above). It comes across as being a more cheaper experience than an interesting challenge.