Big Team Battle needs work…

Games Halo Infinite
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I want to love BTB, but it doesn’t keep me coming back for more like old Halo’s have. I played with 6 friends one night and got off with no memories or desire to do it again the next day. Here are some issues we have noticed:

-Game length: our 4v4 arena matches take longer than big team battle ones. BTB should feel BIG. Right now it feels small.

-Poor Vehicle Play: the maps are small and tight and leave no room for vehicle control. I’m wanting that feeling I’m Standoff or Headlong CTF where the hog could win or lose the game for you. And where are our Wraiths and Scorpions?

-Map Size: too big while not being big enough. I don’t know how that makes sense, but I don’t think BTB maps should be as traversable on foot as these are. My initial reaction is that their too wide and offer way too many lanes, while being too short allowing players to traverse on foot.

-Map Control: the wider map design with too many lanes makes it impossible to strategize and achieve map control. I feel like this was a staple of classic halo big team battle matches. Control the mid on Valhalla, control a route on Headlong, protect gate button on Zanzibar or High Ground, etc.

-Weapon Spawns: another staple of Halo BTB is weapon control, which is kind of hard when the spawns are random. At first, I thought I hated the AR at spawn. But now I realize I just miss knowing exactly where the BR, sniper, etc spawns on each map.

-Interactive Maps: I would bet that some of players most fond Halo BTB memories involve maps with a gate that could be open or left shut, or a portal system that could be activated, or just any interactive piece of map design that changed how the game could be played.

-Squad Grouping: I went in with a group of 3 into BTB over a couple hour session and we got in the same squad a total of 0 times. I know that doesn’t change much, but it was annoying not having my friends in my squad.

I’m curious to see if I’m the only one that feels this way. I just want those old Halo moments, like finally getting mid control on Valhalla and getting a flag pull through the lift. Or grabbing invis on Zanzibar, opening the gate, and getting a hog in there to arm the bomb. Or pulling the flag down and through mid on Headlong while the dude on the turret covers. Or purposely leaving the gate closed on High Ground and using a grav lift to pull the flag over the gate. Or getting map control with a hog on Standoff, pulling the flag out through the tunnel, and bringing it home for a cap. Or a 15 minute slug fest on Coagulation Multi Flag CTF that ends 1-0 on a lucky flag toss to a teammate on the roof and through the portal to a waiting warthog.

I can’t imagine having any memories that compete with those on the 3 maps we’ve seen in the BTB beta. And that concerns me for the longevity of this game. Because I’ve had a blast in Arena so far, but BTB is where all my Halo memories are and what will get me logging on for more.

Are you happy with BTB? Do you have any ideas on how they can make it better?

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You mentioned the scorpion and wraith and consistent power weapon spawns. Those are definitely staples of past BTB and yet I’ve not seen one scorpion and only one wraith in all my matches…

The power weapon spawns was another mess, especially when I need specific weapon challenges. When I hear whatever “from the heavens” I look around in desperation for any sort of indication as to WHERE this support from the heavens is coming from. Sometimes I catch it, sometimes I don’t. Even the turrets don’t respawn!

It’s definitely not the BTB I remember.

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Glad to hear I’m not alone in feeling that way.

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Also the map design bothers me a lot like you say. It feels like even when you do get a wraith or tank, they don’t really fit in any of the terrain very well. First thing I keep thinking of is the wide open terrain of Blood Gulch, like you mentioned.

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I barely get in vehicles in this current iteration of BTB. Even if I don’t die and somehow gain some map control, enemy players will just take one of the thousands of other lanes around to the objective.

And even the warthog feels too big for that dark map (don’t know name). I’m constantly running into stuff left and right :laughing:

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Map design is honestly what’s killing BTB. Instead of a large, open map we’ve been given something that feels like three cramped maps all stapled together. Vehicles can’t maneuver without flipping because all of the paths are too narrow, and the vehicles need a ton of work in general because they get stuck or flip on every piece of terrain that is slightly slanted. None of the vehicles feel smooth like they did in previous games, and I spend most of my time stuck in one spot or endlessly trying to flip them back over. The only good vehicles are the flying vehicles and they are stupid OP. The wasp can get 10 kills in a few seconds and absolutely turn the tide of a game as soon as it spawns.

Sure the maps are big, but they’re still just a bunch of small, cramped battle arenas. Maybe this is because they make all of your enemies glow bright red even when they’re a mile away, so they couldn’t put wide open maps in the game for BTB.

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Wow… the three maps stapled together is a perfect description of these maps.

I was joking with my friends last night that all they had to do was remake Valhalla, Coagulation, and Headlong for the Beta and people would be dumping HOURS into their game.

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Exactly. They would be. As it stands we have not only narrow paths for vehicles, which promotes easy hijacking, but there are pebbles everywhere! These pebbles cause everything to flip so easily! Just like @i8myWeaties2day was saying about the new vehicle physics.

Which I’m sorry to say, but… I actually like them, besides the pebble flipping. Lol.

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My experiences have generally been more positive. As far as “moments” go I’ve actually had tons of great moments, lots of kick -Yoink!- moments and fun/whacky/unexpected things happening. Earlier on I skewered a banshee and a tiny piece of wreckage flew past my head and splattered my brother, it was great.

The only thing that’s annoying me right now is the squad grouping. I’ve been playing with my brother every day since release and we’ve literally never been put in the same little squad. Seems like a very silly oversight.

I do also share some of your concerns with the maps though, especially as far as vehicle design goes, I’m fine with the design style they’ve gone with for with what we’ve seen so far but that is somewhat based on the assumption that there’ll be more maps coming soon - I do hope to see more open maps like Valhalla/Sandtrap/Avalanche. I’ll also say that visually so far they’re all kind of samey. I hope we see some more varied design in that area in future too.

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I mean 343 hasn’t really made any large open maps for btb at all in any of their games. We have had like 2 proper btb maps the entire time 343 has been in charge of halo and those i believe were made by certain affinity and not 343. They can’t even give us a blood gulch variant like every halo game Bungie made, seriously there is a reason Bungie made a new one for each of their halo games, we the fans love them. The best they are willing to do is give us forge copies of proper btb maps but those have their own kinds of issues that don’t exist in non forge maps due to forge limitations.

The biggest issue is that they refuse to stop trying to turn btb into bigger arena. It isn’t -Yoink!- arena 343 so stop trying to make it that. If you want arena with more players so damn bad make it a new mode and give us the proper btb we have been begging for since you took over.

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Glad to hear I’m not alone in feeling that way.

You definitely aren’t. In the feedback thread after the last flight, there was an overwhelming consensus that the vehicle spawns in BTB need to change. From what I can tell, the vast majority of the playerbase would prefer vehicles in BTB to spawn like they used to.

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I was joking with my friends last night that all they had to do was remake Valhalla, Coagulation, and Headlong for the Beta and people would be dumping HOURS into their game.

This is true. I would love to see Valhalla and Blood Gulch remakes!

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They have taken the cod and battlefield route of map design which is to add so many firing lanes you can’t possible manage to properly hold them all. It’s intentional so people can’t get stuck at one end and get frustrated not being able to push.

It’s lame and I hate it. BTB is as good as dead dude. I mained BTB for years this is not BTB this is just a cluster -Yoink!-.

All of it is completely intentional though. They no longer want slower more calculated methodical gameplay, and team presses, they want random chaos, because that rewards poor players, and if even poor players can enjoy themselves and get rewarded they’ll stick around and that means mode $$$

That’s why the whole game is so much faster and instead it BR dominant it’s AR dominant where instead of pacing and timing shots you just hold the trigger to kill. It’s a generic shooters with slightly longer TTK and a few token halo features

I like the AA’s though

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My biggest complaints are the squads being messed up and no Ranged weapon spawns. The AR/Pistol feels so bad in btb. Plus too many far ranged weapons spawn at the base that force ppl to sit back (shock and stalker rife).

I think btb needs to have all the vehicles spawn at the bases. Also most weapons need to spawn in the middle, mainly power weapons.

Also please put ammo caches around the map. I HATE getting a ranged weapon that I can only get a handful of kills with or get ppl weak.

Btb definitely needs some work

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They also need to class the shock rifle as a power weapon and put it in places like the “loot cave” rather than plop them down in both spawns with the same respawn timer as crap like the commando rifle. Or better yet just get rid of it and give the plasma pistol it’s emp back since that gun is completely useless now.

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@spy_guy_35 Hell yeah brother I agree with all your points

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I couldn’t agree more. Map design so far just doesn’t feel like I’m playing on Halo BTB maps. There’s no room to maneuver when driving anything bigger than a Ghost or Mongoose. Driving ground vehicles is basically just following narrow set paths until you’re inevitably killed by one of a dozen counters or just massed enemy fire, neither of which can be reasonably avoided with any consistency in the current map layouts. A lot of your points match up with problems I’ve also noticed so far, and I’m already just wanting to load up MCC again for some BTB that I know I’ll actually enjoy.

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I think BTB has great potential with the addition of equipment, weapon/vehicle drops and the new game modes (especially total control feels more rewarding then strongholds because the need for offense and defense is always on both sides).

The overall map design I like but I do agree it feels more tailored to combat on foot then by vehicle (wasp’s and ghosts aside). The weapon drops are fine but finding them is a hassle seeing the AI calls them out like it’s always next to you while it can be across the map and you uselessly spam the scan button for 10 seconds until you realise that.

One major balancing issue is that vehicle spawns are not equal in power level. Multiple times I got excited when hearing “scorpion tank inbound” only to see it being dropped for the enemy and me looking at a fresh gungoose…

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I felt the length wasnt the problem but action was.
There were next to none high power vehicle during my playtime. Never ever saw a wraith or scorpion spawn,

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I have yet to try a scorpion or a wraith, that whole ‘heavy vehicles at the end for epic ending’ thing is just not working.
I want matches to be epic from the beginning.

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