Big team battle is a mess

Games Halo Infinite
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Btb is nowhere near as polished as arena, probably because it wasn’t tested as much.

Here is a list of some of the issues that come to mind:
-the radar needs to be bigger, I know they said they were going to change this but they still haven’t and anyway 22 meters wouldn’t be enough imo it should be 25

-slayer should be at least 150 kills, this one is a no brainer, more players should mean higher kills to win, 12vs12 is 50% more players than 8vs8, slayer matches do not last nearly as long as they should

-the outlines are horrible for btb, they make it impossible to hide from enemies, imagine trying to hide in the trees to not get massacred by a wasp while being lit up like a Christmas tree

-when you are playing with someone they don’t get added to your assault squad by default

-random spawns for guns feels terrible, same with the random power weapons in the pods, how am I supposed to be able to control the power weapons if a random pod an enemy finds has a sniper in it?

-some guns like the br take too long to respawn

-does a weapon rack that spawns the disruptor seriously need to become red and not start the respawn when someone still has it? I like using it but it’s obviously not a great gun.

Now the worst part, the vehicles.
While the vehicles themselves are great besides minor things, the overall system is a mess:

-all vehicles should spawn at the start of the game and then at set intervals like in previous halos, the rng pelicans are terrible, it’s especially infuriating when the enemy is airdropped scorpions and wraiths and you get a chopper or gungoose, I know this is likely a bug but even if it is fixed it doesn’t change that being able to correctly guess when a vehicle will respawn is infinitely more rewarding for people like me who play btb mainly because of vehicles.
The matches where no one gets anything are also very frustrating and it does happen, especially in slayer.
Total control matches become meat grinders because no one gets any heavy vehicles to push the objectives with, this happens very often.
What they could do with pelicans is only use them to drop a few vehicles in the middle of the map so that the teams have to fight for it but it shouldn’t be rng.

-chopper damage and banshee health are too low.

Infinite Btb has the potential to be the best it has ever been but some of these things really hold it back.
I know everyone is focussed on the progression problems but this is more important to me as I almost exclusively play btb.

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I think the move to 12v12 made it much more difficult for them to design maps that play anything like the old BTB experience of halo 2, 3, or Reach.

343 demonstrated in Halo 5 that their vision for BTB is basically “it plays the same as 4v4, but bigger and with vehicles”.

They’ve done a much better job in Infinite at designing a mode that is distinct from 4v4, but there’s a lot of that core idea there.

I agree that all the vehicles and weapons should just start on map and respawn normally. The current drop system is bad. It’s neither fun nor particularly balanced.

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They don’t even need to get rid of the drops, just make them supplemental.

I play BTB because I want to play a mode that spawns banshees, tanks, and rockets that are readily available - not because I want the ‘chance’ to see a wraith or something.

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I’ve said it before in another thread, but Vehicles are way, way too weak to small-arms fire. A few people can obliterate a warthog with default Assault-Rifles in seconds. It’s ridiculous and has made it to the point where most of the time people don’t even bother getting in Warthogs because it’s a genuine liability - you’re better off on-foot where you’re more agile and frankly doing similar amounts of damage-per-personal-risk, to coin a term.

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I agree. I play BTB for all the crazy silly chaos that is possible when you have teams of 8 (or 12 now) playing with the entire Halo sandbox. I don’t care about competitive gunfights or close games. Just give us the entire Halo sandbox and let us do goofy fun stuff with it.

Where are my elephants, 343?

I think some of this is the map design. They have continued their Halo 5 BTB map design philosophy where they have a severe phobia of providing wide open space on the map, because they are scared that players will get their fee fees hurt and quit if they run around in the open and get slaughtered by vehicles. So everyone has a safe space behind a rock within 5 feet of them at all times.

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Infinite’s BTB feels more chaotic for sure.
I think what will really help is do the thing where Pings will paint the target on the minimap for all team mates within your vicinity.

  1. This will make Call out Pings more important, and build a gameplay culture to callout and ping for your team.
  2. This will make make more sense than having a totally useless Radar until it’s too late.
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Yeah some of the BTB maps are so narrow with vehicles. I need some open plain maps to run down people like in other previous games.

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Would love a “Classic” BTB mode that is actually balanced

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I think this is the problem… “classic” BTB isn’t really designed around balance. I mean sure… the elements of balance are all there in that teams start with equal stuff on the map, but the goal of classic BTB is to get 9 warthogs, 4 tanks, 5 snipers and a guy with rockets all outside the enemies’ base and spawn camp them into oblivion while you steal their flag or plant the bomb.

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I would love to see some BTB maps that were more open. I think this one change would bring back more of the classic BTB feel that has been missing.

Sadly 343 just seems to want to make it Arena with more players.

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Exactly. Every BTB map is a guerrilla-tacticians haven to the point that you’re basically a sitting duck in any vehicle to constant fire from every direction, and at any point an on-foot enemy attacking you can just duck behind whatever rock formation is no less than 6 meters from you at all possible times.

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The maps are too cluttered and don’t have enough open spaces why? I have no idea ask 343??? Makes no sense to me slows down the flow of gameplay but I would say high tower is the best BTB map Forsure….

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Is it just me or is the player count to high? 8v8 played wayyyyyy better.

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I appreciate 343i for trying to make it more “realistic” in how some vehicles - especially heavy vehicles- spawn in. But it does make things a little too chaotic.

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BTB mainly feels like Arena now mainly in Slayer because heavy vehicles spawn in too late.

Fragmentation: It’s too segmented with no focal points or power positions leading to just sprinting aimlessly around the middle of the map, getting a kill or getting shot in the back, repeat. If you aren’t near the Pelican drop, you probly won’t even notice a Pelican dropping something off. The lanes are very confined so a tank won’t even last very long.

High Power: This might be one of the worst maps in BTB. It’s very open with lots of elevated points leading to open season on anyone in the middle of the map. It’s a worse version of a Blood Gulch remake in that regards. Blue base can literally see 90% of the map so you get people camping on the spawn buildings raining shots down while red base can’t see anything. Really fair in objective modes /s. It’s also very easy to spawn camp a base which leads to a lot of base switching in Slayer. Being too open also means ground vehicles get destroyed quickly and the air vehicles like the Wasp can dominate if your team isn’t great.

Deadlock: I’ve only played this a couple times so not much issues on it yet. I’ve noticed that it has very few precision weapons making it hard to win fights against players that do have them or vehicles.

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I completly agree.

As I, and many others, already said after the Flights, the Pelican Drop is horrendous. I mean its cool to see but it also means that the vehicles are not on the map for the majority of the time. In all my time playing BTB I have seen five Scorpions, two Wraits and two Banshees and was able to drive one Scorpion (of those five) and one Banshee (of those two). Both got immediatly destroyed because the entire enemy team got lucky with drop pods and had nothing to worry about to use the power weapons.

Besides this Pelican Drop is, at least in my experience, also completly random. I just lost a CTF match tanks to my team getting a Wathog (not a Rocket Hog) and a Gungoose while the enemy team got a Scorpion (the fifth Scorpion I saw) and a Banshee (the second Banshee I saw).

If 343 wants to keep the system in place (and they should not in my opinion), the easy fix, already suggested more than once, would be to spawn vehicles at the beginning and resupplying them via Pelican Drop at their spawn points.

As for the drop pods: 343, you already tried that in Halo 4; no one liked it. Why would we like that thing now?

I too find the point cap to be too low on BT Slayer. As you said, with 24 people the kill cap that was good for 16 is now not enough.

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Honestly @Inkek2499 I think you nailed like a full 90% of the problems with BTB in one post and I completely agree with all of them except one.

I think the whole point is to stop the monopolization of power weapons and I agree with it. It is completely bs when you’re playing better but lose because 1 guy on the other team has had rockets or sniper the entire match and no1 else has been able to get them
with the random power weapon drops its essentially the same thing as set power weapons just know one knows where they’ll spawn vs someone memorizing all spawns to monopolize. This also doesnt guarantee that just because there are random drops that you still wont be able to fully control set power weapons it just makes it harder.

Other than that one point though I think you’re spot on with everything you said. In what world did 343 think it would be a good idea to have a system that drops a tank for one team and a gungoose for the other?? Should always drop the same vehicle on both sides and never assist one team over another…

Not going to keep going but good post.

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Yeah, Behemoth feels like the only true BTB map right now. Big open circuit for vehicles to roam, and a few holes for infantry to hide in.

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I think it needs BR starts. That to me is classic Halo BTB…what I played in Halo 3 all these years till infinite came out. BR with AR as secondary maybe.

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I mained BTB aswell and but hated Halo 5’s warzone and so far absolutely hate infinites BTB

There is 0 flow to the game, map control is gone, especially since there’s spawn flipping, learning the map weapon and vehicle spawns is gone. There is just an OVERLOAD of -Yoink!- on the screen and information being given by your incessant AI “assistant” aswell as the announcer aswell as the lady who talks about Ordnance etc admstuoid Spartan chatter . Halo used to he so simple and bare bones. Now it’s just a -Yoink!-.

Particularly BTB because it’s so much bigger than 4v4.

I personally liked competitive btb 8 good players vs 8 good players (8 was a great size because it’s usually possible to round up 8 friends) now that’s gone out the window having a full lobby of mates is a lot more difficult.

343 hate vehicles and ruined them in Halo 4 and they’ve been awful ever since. Reach had incredibly powerful vehicles, so people complained they were OP when in actual fact they were just bad at the game and big parties also abused vehicles to within and inch of their life (I wasn’t a fan of this, our party would often blow the banshee before the others could get it forcing them into a ground war for example) but we never complained the vehicles were broken.

When halo 4 came around they over nerfed them and made them all out of tissue paper, and made the banshee slow as a slug etc. Just pointless. Seems like that’s carried over into infinite so people don’t complain about getting hosed down by a vehicle instead of actually working together to destroy it.

However, if the vehicles are buffed and made viable, them we face another issue, the random spawning, if one team gets a tank and the other a mongoose, then the battle is skewed unfairly. This is why there should be classic starts for btb, vehicles spawn at the bases and maybe a neutral power vehicle or power weapon like a skewer in the centre to assist one side in wiping the others vehicles while preserving theirs.

But now with the clusterfuck that is btb this is borderline impossible

Also no friendly fire ruins it too, tanks can just shoot teammates with no punishment…seems legit

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