Big Team Battle CSR.

So now that there will be a mix of Objective and Slayer in Big Team, I wonder how the CSR will be calculated. Will it be based on the current calculation for Big Team, personal performance, or will it be based on W/L?

For me personally I hope it is based on personal performance, I’m tired of placing first on the losing team and getting dinged on my CSR because a few people on my team quit etc etc.

What say ye?

It was confirmed your BTB CSR will carry over to BTB Battle CSR. As far as I know there is no change to individual CSR ranking. BTB/battle is too much of a mixed bag for team rankings.

> It was confirmed your BTB CSR will carry over to BTB Battle CSR. As far as I know there is no change to individual CSR ranking. BTB/battle is too much of a mixed bag for team rankings.

Were was it confirmed ?
I asked on Twitter and 343 never got back to me …

THE New Big Team Battle Playlist should be TEAM BASED AS IT’S A TEAM GAME


Individual CSR =
-FROM 343-
"In the mainstream playlists, we sort players by their performance (score) after every match, regardless of whether their team won or lost. The system will expect the players with the highest CSR values to rank consistently higher in the match. So if you bring all your awesome friends into those playlists and they dominate while you end up at the bottom of the scoreboard, your rating will NOT be carried by them; it will decrease instead."
So in essence your going to harm your CSR by playing BigTeamBatle with friends. Instead, you should go in alone and HOPE you get the worst teammates possible so you can beat their score, not worrying at all over the fact that you will lose when SniperBoi84756 goes 6-25 on your team.
Score based CSR should never be applied in team based games. Playing for score instead of the win is the antithesis of what a team game should be about. As it stands, everything that nets you points is a bad thing for your teammates.
This is what score team based CSR promotes: Kill stealing, Blind Rushing, Lone-wolfing, No regard for deaths because they do not penalize you,
On top of all this, it is giving CSR to players who are not showing skill. Someone who goes 25 and 25 and loses does not deserve to rank up over someone who won and went 10 and 5.
Individual scoring CSR in team based playlists is a terrible idea it promotes camping with power weapons and not working as a team = No team work + not to mention being able to rank up off of losing a game …
It promotes selfish gameplay as opposed to teamwork. Why should I share the power weapons and give my team a better chance of winning if I can hoard them myself and bait my teammates? Letting my teammates die before I shoot their opponent means more kills for me.
On a larger scale it even works against playing with your friends/team, as if we all work together, we will probably all end up with around the same amount of points, and therefore no one gains any ranks.
People care less about winning and more about stats

Do YOU really need more reasons then that^^^^


Team CSR =
More team work harder to RANK up as you for the most part you have to match and beat higher level players
Individual scoring does nothing for you so just sitting back and stating is pointless .
It’s harder to Rank up in Team based so people will be playing the playlist longer.

Both methods are flawed.

Win/Loss does definitely allow weak players to be carried, and in some cases it allows strong players to be held back by a tragically bad team. Either scenario is a bad outcome.

Individual score is a good idea in theory, but the execution defies logic. The point system arbitrarily rewards things that do not make a player any good - things like extra points for a splatter, when in fact you should get fewer points for the easier kill. And then it proceeds to ignore some of the most important indicators of ability such as kill to death ratio.

These are the reasons why I don’t care what my CSR is or how the monkeys choose to calculate it. It is completely meaningless, except as a tool to try to coerce players into a certain style of play which the developers feel is better (more exciting, faster paced, better suited to ADHD thirteen year olds) for them and will sell more games.

Cynical rant OVER.

I think a combination of team and individual performances are necessary to make CSR fair. People who end up carrying their team and lose deserve more credit than someone who lucks out to be on the winning team but does nothing. Likewise, every kill that helped push a team towards victory deserves to be acknowledged. After all, the guy who arrived just in time to score the game-winning kill still won the game.

There also should be an accounting of your CSR going into a game vs the other team’s average. For example, the last game I played, my team’s average CSR was 32 (counting one guy who was 27 who joined just in time to finish the game with no kills or deaths). One guy on the other team was 17. I don’t think it’s fair to penalize him as harshly as the 29 on his team that went 1 and 8.

Flatly basing CSR just on win/loss or individual performance alone is a terrible idea.

> I think a combination of team and individual performances are necessary to make CSR fair. People who end up carrying their team and lose deserve more credit than someone who lucks out to be on the winning team but does nothing. Likewise, every kill that helped push a team towards victory deserves to be acknowledged. After all, the guy who arrived just in time to score the game-winning kill still won the game.
>
> There also should be an accounting of your CSR going into a game vs the other team’s average. For example, the last game I played, my team’s average CSR was 32 (counting one guy who was 27 who joined just in time to finish the game with no kills or deaths). One guy on the other team was 17. I don’t think it’s fair to penalize him as harshly as the 29 on his team that went 1 and 8.
>
> Flatly basing CSR just on win/loss or individual performance alone is a terrible idea.

No playlist uses both types of CSR / i believe

over all a TEAM BASED Playlist should only use A TEAM BASED Ranking system otherwise things like i posted above will happen.

> Both methods are flawed.
>
> Win/Loss does definitely allow weak players to be carried, and in some cases it allows strong players to be held back by a tragically bad team. Either scenario is a bad outcome.

BUT out of the 2 types of CSR we have the TEAM Based one is much much better.

  • It will keep people playing that playlist as it will take longer to rank up in = a better playlist population = better MM games for everyone

> It was confirmed your BTB CSR will carry over to BTB Battle CSR. As far as I know there is no change to individual CSR ranking. BTB/battle is too much of a mixed bag for team rankings.

Cool, I look forward to the larger player pool from the consolidation as well.

Im very sad they are going with NO TEAM based CSR in this new playlist…

its going to be way to easy

Personal performance, and factor everything in, K/D, medals, etc.

> Personal performance, and factor everything in, K/D, medals, etc.

and here is a small list of why it shouldn’t be personal performance–

Score based CSR should never be applied in team based games. Playing for score instead of the win is the antithesis of what a team game should be about. As it stands, everything that nets you points is a bad thing for your teammates.

This is what score team based CSR promotes: Kill stealing, Blind Rushing, Lone-wolfing, No regard for deaths because they do not penalize you,

On top of all this, it is giving CSR to players who are not showing skill. Someone who goes 25 and 25 and loses does not deserve to rank up over someone who won and went 10 and 5.

Individual scoring CSR in team based playlists is a terrible idea it promotes camping with power weapons and not working as a team = No team work + not to mention being able to rank up off of losing a game …

It promotes selfish gameplay as opposed to teamwork. Why should I share the power weapons and give my team a better chance of winning if I can hoard them myself and bait my teammates? Letting my teammates die before I shoot their opponent means more kills for me.

On a larger scale it even works against playing with your friends/team, as if we all work together, we will probably all end up with around the same amount of points, and therefore no one gains any ranks.

People care less about winning and more about stats

Guess it goes either way. With team, you can be an elite player with a team that has no good teamwork and you get shafted.

> Guess it goes either way. With team, you can be an elite player with a team that has no good teamwork and you get shafted.

If you play with a team/friends and don’t search random you don’t have to worry about that as long as you can make friends on XBL people should never have this issue.

TEAM Game play with a TEAM/FRIENDS
NO TEAM Game play SOLO

> > Both methods are flawed.
> >
> > Win/Loss does definitely allow weak players to be carried, and in some cases it allows strong players to be held back by a tragically bad team. Either scenario is a bad outcome.
>
> BUT out of the 2 types of CSR we have the TEAM Based one is much much better.
>
>
> + It will keep people playing that playlist as it will take longer to rank up in = a better playlist population = better MM games for everyone

My personal experience with team-based ranks in Halo 3 did not lead me to believe that they were preferable to individual ranks, simply that they were evil in a completely different way. There are simply too many variables in any Halo game type, and especially in Big Team, for a simple win/loss system to be even remotely accurate. And their accuracy is utterly beside the point. It doesn’t matter how a ranking system works - it only matters how it is perceived to work. Which is another reason that any system I’ve ever heard of up to now is doomed to fail. Once people experience a ranking system, you end up with some people who understand it and hate it, some people who understand it and like it, some people who don’t care one way or another, and a whole lot of people who do not understand it and think that it is cheating them in some way.

As to your second point, are you assuming that people instantly leave a playlist (or the entire game) once they have reached the rank ceiling? I know I never have, but I also know I’m atypical in many ways so I’ll defer to you on this one…

> THE New Big Team Battle Playlist should be TEAM BASED AS IT’S A TEAM GAME
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Individual CSR =
> -FROM 343-
> "In the mainstream playlists, we sort players by their performance (score) after every match, regardless of whether their team won or lost. The system will expect the players with the highest CSR values to rank consistently higher in the match. So if you bring all your awesome friends into those playlists and they dominate while you end up at the bottom of the scoreboard, your rating will NOT be carried by them; it will decrease instead."
> So in essence your going to harm your CSR by playing BigTeamBatle with friends. Instead, you should go in alone and HOPE you get the worst teammates possible so you can beat their score, not worrying at all over the fact that you will lose when SniperBoi84756 goes 6-25 on your team.
> Score based CSR should never be applied in team based games. Playing for score instead of the win is the antithesis of what a team game should be about. As it stands, everything that nets you points is a bad thing for your teammates.
> This is what score team based CSR promotes: Kill stealing, Blind Rushing, Lone-wolfing, No regard for deaths because they do not penalize you,
> On top of all this, it is giving CSR to players who are not showing skill. Someone who goes 25 and 25 and loses does not deserve to rank up over someone who won and went 10 and 5.
> Individual scoring CSR in team based playlists is a terrible idea it promotes camping with power weapons and not working as a team = No team work + not to mention being able to rank up off of losing a game …
> It promotes selfish gameplay as opposed to teamwork. Why should I share the power weapons and give my team a better chance of winning if I can hoard them myself and bait my teammates? Letting my teammates die before I shoot their opponent means more kills for me.
> On a larger scale it even works against playing with your friends/team, as if we all work together, we will probably all end up with around the same amount of points, and therefore no one gains any ranks.
> People care less about winning and more about stats
>
> Do YOU really need more reasons then that^^^^
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Team CSR =
> More team work harder to RANK up as you for the most part you have to match and beat higher level players
> Individual scoring does nothing for you so just sitting back and stating is pointless .
> It’s harder to Rank up in Team based so people will be playing the playlist longer.

Unfortunately for most of us Bob, putting together full teams is a little difficult. Even when I do manage to get a team together for Big Team, which takes forever, I then have to wait for a match forever.

Being punished via the ranking system for not having the time to do that is a little unfair.

Besides that, those that preform well with a cruddy team deserve to have better teammates, that will only be possible if they advance in rank. As those players climb in rank, the matches (theoretically) should get better for all.