Better late than...nevermind

Has it seriously taken eleven months for Neutral Flag to show up in Matchmaking? Seriously? The fact that it’s showing up at all is great - never let it be said that a lack of gametype variety is a good thing - but how in the hell has it taken almost a year for one of the most basic gametypes in Halo’s history to get into Matchmaking? Did Halo 4’s sustain team have a collective aneurysm when they heard tell of this mythical gametype where the flag spawns in the middle of a given map instead of at either team’s base, and it’s taken them this long to get it integrated because they’ve been in a coma since last November?

One Flag is even more basic, and it’s still not there. Thumbs up for the change, but thumbs down for waiting a week short of a year to do it and not focusing on more important things first.

Ah. So the right behavior - when you finally get what you want - is to -Yoink- that it took so long . . . with the conclusion that if they never did anything at all about it, they would have heard less -Yoinking!-. No wonder we got dubbed “the vocal minority”, with all the negative connotation that comes with that label.

Here’s a better strategy: -Yoink- about bad / missing features up front and be grateful (without -Yoinking!-) if your suggestions end up being implemented.

Still waiting on the other Gametypes that were stripped out of this game:

One-Flag CTF
Assault
Headhunter
Invasion
Juggernaut
Stockpile
Race
Territories
VIP

As well as the options that were looked over for the Gametypes that we do have.

EDIT: I swear I originally put Territories in my list.

> Ah. So the right behavior - when you finally get what you want - is to -Yoink!- that it took so long . . . with the conclusion that if they never did anything at all about it, they would have heard less -Yoinking!-. No wonder we got dubbed “the vocal minority”, with all the negative connotation that comes with that label.
>
>
> Here’s a better strategy: -Yoink!- about bad / missing features up front and be grateful (without -Yoinking!-) if your suggestions end up being implemented.

When it’s taken as long as it has for this one, simple change to be implemented, yes. If Neutral Flag had been integrated into Matchmaking within, say, the first couple of months after Halo 4’s release, I would be whistling a different tune. But it’s taken 343i nearly a year to make this one, little addition to Halo 4 Matchmaking. So, while I am grateful that this change has been implemented at all, I’m still pissed that it took nearly a year, and I want to remind 343i of this fact in the off-chance that they won’t take so -Yoinking!- long next time.

> Ah. So the right behavior - when you finally get what you want - is to -Yoink!- that it took so long . . . with the conclusion that if they never did anything at all about it, they would have heard less -Yoinking!-. No wonder we got dubbed “the vocal minority”, with all the negative connotation that comes with that label.
>
>
> Here’s a better strategy: -Yoink!- about bad / missing features up front and be grateful (without -Yoinking!-) if your suggestions end up being implemented.

In fairness Maximus we have been -Yoinking!- and complaining about the plethora of missing features and broken game mechanics since day one

I want to remind you that it took them 5 months to implement a working file share system…5 MONTHS

People have every right to -Yoink- and complain about what a disappointment that not only halo 4 has been but also the disappointment in the direction and decisions 343i has made concerning the game

If you don’t -Yoink- and complain, nothing changes and everything remains status quo, and I don’t think anyone wants the halo 4 status quo for halo 5

> > Ah. So the right behavior - when you finally get what you want - is to -Yoink!- that it took so long . . . with the conclusion that if they never did anything at all about it, they would have heard less -Yoinking!-. No wonder we got dubbed “the vocal minority”, with all the negative connotation that comes with that label.
> >
> >
> > Here’s a better strategy: -Yoink!- about bad / missing features up front and be grateful (without -Yoinking!-) if your suggestions end up being implemented.
>
> In fairness Maximus we have been -Yoinking!- and complaining about the plethora of missing features and broken game mechanics since day one
>
> I want to remind you that it took them 5 months to implement a working file share system…5 MONTHS
>
> People have every right to -Yoink!- and complain about what a disappointment that not only halo 4 has been but also the disappointment in the direction and decisions 343i has made concerning the game
>
> If you don’t -Yoink!- and complain, nothing changes and everything remains status quo, and I don’t think anyone wants the halo 4 status quo for halo 5

But then whenever they DO get around to making a positive change, you Yoink more and harder?

What happened to positive reinforcement? :stuck_out_tongue:

> If you don’t -Yoink!- and complain, nothing changes and everything remains status quo, and I don’t think anyone wants the halo 4 status quo for halo 5

Right. But if you continue to -Yoink- and moan about it after it’s been done, what incentive do you give them to continue to bother making changes?

OP could have said:

> While 11 months is far too long for a change such as this, I do appreciate the addition of Neutral Flag to matchmaking. I would like to stress that the game cannot afford these types of mistakes in Halo 5. Many people might give you a pass since this is your first AAA game, but that same pass will not be given next time.
>
> Regardless, we appreciate the addition of Neutral Flag.

Makes the same point without calling them complete -Yoinks!-.

Welcome to halo 4. We’ll get back to you with a response to your question in close to a year, along with the big-team camo glitch fix!

the removal of assault basically meant all neutral ideas we’re shelved for some reason even though the game is abundant with asymmetrical maps…

> > If you don’t -Yoink!- and complain, nothing changes and everything remains status quo, and I don’t think anyone wants the halo 4 status quo for halo 5
>
> Right. But if you continue to -Yoink!- and moan about it after it’s been done, what incentive do you give them to continue to bother making changes?

You seem to be missing a key component of my argument: this problem has evolved over time. It hasn’t always been just the one issue, not for months now. It started out as being only one problem: Neutral Flag was not in Matchmaking. As the months dragged on, that one problem became two: Neutral Flag wasn’t in Matchmaking, and it was taking 343i forever-and-a-day to fix that problem. Now that Neutral Flag is finally being introduced to Matchmaking, one of the two problems has been resolved, but there’s still one problem left that bears mentioning: it took 343i almost a year to get Neutral Flag into Halo 4 Matchmaking.

> OP could have said:
>
>
>
> > While 11 months is far too long for a change such as this, I do appreciate the addition of Neutral Flag to matchmaking. <mark>I would like to stress that the game cannot afford these types of mistakes in Halo 5. Many people might give you a pass since this is your first AAA game, but that same pass will not be given next time.</mark>
> > <mark>Regardless, we appreciate the addition of Neutral Flag.</mark>
>
> Makes the same point without calling them complete -Yoinks!-.

I’ve highlighted the two major problems I have with your suggestion. First off, why wait until 343i has done it again in Halo 5 before we start “-Yoinking!-”, as you so eloquently put it? Why not start “-Yoinking!-” now and attempt to nip the problem in the bud?

Second, I don’t think you full appreciate what the word ‘regardless’ means in the context of your post. It’s not synonymous with ‘anyway’, it’s not a word that you can just throw at the beginning of a sentence as some sort of casual transition. Taken in context, your use of ‘regardless’ turns the original sentence into, “While I’d like to be angry with you because of how long it took for you to resolve this issue, I can’t be because the problem was solved.” This is very much not the message I was trying to get across.

I will provide one last response, and then I will move on. If you wish to continue acting like a child, you will be able to do so without any additional interference on my part.

> > > If you don’t -Yoink!- and complain, nothing changes and everything remains status quo, and I don’t think anyone wants the halo 4 status quo for halo 5
> >
> > Right. But if you continue to -Yoink!- and moan about it after it’s been done, what incentive do you give them to continue to bother making changes?
>
> You seem to be missing a key component of my argument: this problem has evolved over time. It hasn’t always been just the one issue, not for months now. It started out as being only one problem: Neutral Flag was not in Matchmaking. As the months dragged on, that one problem became two: Neutral Flag wasn’t in Matchmaking, and it was taking 343i forever-and-a-day to fix that problem. Now that Neutral Flag is finally being introduced to Matchmaking, one of the two problems has been resolved, but there’s still one problem left that bears mentioning: it took 343i almost a year to get Neutral Flag into Halo 4 Matchmaking.

The way you framed your second problem is impossible for 343i to address until H5, as demonstrating the fix requires:

  1. Not having a desired feature in a new game release; and,

  2. Fixing it within what you consider to be a reasonable timeframe.

This reduces your complaint to nothing more than a preemptive whine about H5 (which you confirm is the intent in the quote below). Anyone at 343i who reads the complaint will dismiss it out-of-hand. If you wish it not to be dismissed, you would need to rephrase in a similar manner as I suggest (i.e., “Thanks, and do not forget that repeating this mistake in H5 will be worse than it was this time around.”).

Complaining that they must have had a collective aneurysm with accompanying hyperbole is unnecessary, juvenile, spiteful, and unlikely to make your point be taken seriously.

> > OP could have said:
> >
> >
> >
> > > While 11 months is far too long for a change such as this, I do appreciate the addition of Neutral Flag to matchmaking. <mark>I would like to stress that the game cannot afford these types of mistakes in Halo 5. Many people might give you a pass since this is your first AAA game, but that same pass will not be given next time.</mark>
> > > <mark>Regardless, we appreciate the addition of Neutral Flag.</mark>
> >
> > Makes the same point without calling them complete -Yoinks!-.
>
> I’ve highlighted the two major problems I have with your suggestion. First off, why wait until 343i has done it again in Halo 5 before we start “-Yoinking!-”, as you so eloquently put it? Why not start “-Yoinking!-” now and attempt to nip the problem in the bud?

My quote states quite directly that we will be even more displeased than we have been for Halo 4. You would agree with this, no?

Where you go off the rails is advocating that it is okay to preemptively -Yoink- about a mistake that has not yet been made in a product that does not yet exist. Such complaints fall on deaf ears. If you wish to impress upon 343i that a mistake like this in H5 would be unacceptable, then that is what you should say (c.f. suggestion above). If you wish to vent frustration with the inevitable consequence that your post will be ignored by 343i, then continue down the path you seem wont to take.

> Second, I don’t think you <mark>full appreciate</mark> what the word ‘regardless’ means in the context of your post. It’s not synonymous with ‘anyway’, it’s not a word that you can just throw at the beginning of a sentence as some sort of casual transition. Taken in context, your use of ‘regardless’ turns the original sentence into, “While I’d like to be angry with you because of how long it took for you to resolve this issue, I can’t be because the problem was solved.” This is very much not the message I was trying to get across.

Given this gem, I recommend against you lecturing others on writing in the future. First, “regardless” as an adverb does actually have a meaning of “anyway”. Interestingly enough, that is the primary meaning of the adverb form. Second, the structure of the sentence to which you object uses “regardless” as a conjunctive adverb (look it up) which has transition as its specific and only function. Third, for “regardless” to have the meaning you suggest (giving the problem the quality of being disregarded, forgotten, or ignored) we would require it to be used as an adjective, which is impossible given the structure of the sentence. There is no noun that “regardless” modifies. I would recommend that you bone up a bit on your parts of speech so that you can “<mark>full appreciate</mark>” how usage dictates meaning for words with multiple definitions.

And now I will take my leave of this thread. Feel free to continue without me.

And I tried to forget my English lessons :confused:

First of all, I do agree that it took way too long, it’s coming up to one year of Halo 4 and it’s a shame that old game-types still need to be added to the game.
If you’re going to release a Halo game, you should come out with the complete package, not doing so hurts the games re-playability as a lack of game-types causes a lack of custom game types and repetitiveness in playing the only few game-types available.

But you’re title almost sums it up perfectly, would you prefer a extremely late Neutral CTF rather than nothing at all?

You must remember that this was probably not on their hit list, I would of much preferred this to be late rather than the weapon tuning update or Forge Island.
To me, it’s great to see that the game is still being supported and worked on, I hope to see more of this in the future even though I am no longer playing the game.

BTW, you’re OP comes of demanding and angry, and although I partly agree with you, asking if 343 have been in a coma is not the best way to provide your feedback.

“Better late than never” would agree better with your opening post but “better late than nevermind” sounds like you’re not bothered about it anymore!

> My quote states quite directly that we will be even more displeased than we have been for Halo 4. You would agree with this, no?
>
> Where you go off the rails is advocating that it is okay to preemptively -Yoink!- about a mistake that has not yet been made in a product that does not yet exist. Such complaints fall on deaf ears. If you wish to impress upon 343i that a mistake like this in H5 would be unacceptable, then that is what you should say (c.f. suggestion above). If you wish to vent frustration with the inevitable consequence that your post will be ignored by 343i, then continue down the path you seem wont to take.

No, what I’m advocating now is to be angry now at what 343i has done now, and attempt to keep them from doing the same thing later (whether it be with Halo 4, 5, 6, or whatever). I’m not claiming to know that Matchmaking updates containing classic Halo gametypes will continue to roll out at a glacial pace for Halo 4, or any future Halo titles. What I am claiming is that it’s taken far longer than I think is necessary for one classic gametype to make it into Halo 4 Matchmaking, and that if we aren’t angry with 343i now we’ll have missed a prime opportunity to change things for the better (possibly). I don’t know about you, but the prospect of getting angry a second time over the exact same issue isn’t all that appealing to me. I don’t even like getting angry over it this first time, but here I am.

> Given this gem, I recommend against you lecturing others on writing in the future. First, “regardless” as an adverb does actually have a meaning of “anyway”. Interestingly enough, that is the primary meaning of the adverb form. Second, the structure of the sentence to which you object uses “regardless” as a conjunctive adverb (look it up) which has transition as its specific and only function. Third, for “regardless” to have the meaning you suggest (giving the problem the quality of being disregarded, forgotten, or ignored) we would require it to be used as an adjective, which is impossible given the structure of the sentence. There is no noun that “regardless” modifies. I would recommend that you bone up a bit on your parts of speech so that you can “<mark>full appreciate</mark>” how usage dictates meaning for words with multiple definitions.

Damn sticky keyboard, I knew you’d ruin me one day…

Casual transition. “…it’s not the sort of word that you can just throw at the beginning of a sentence as some sort of casual transition.” Admittedly, ‘should’ would have been better than ‘can’, but that’s beside the point. Point is, I’m not wholly against using ‘regardless’ as a transition - or “conjunctive adverb” - but I am against using a word that strong so casually. As for definitions…

regardless
adjective

  1. having or showing no regard; heedless; unmindful.
    adverb
  2. without concern as to advice, warning, hardship, etc.; anyway.

As you can see, there’s little difference between the adjective and adverb forms of the word (also, my apologies for saying that ‘anyway’ and ‘regardless’ were not synonymous).

conjunction
noun

  1. Grammar
    a. any member of a small class of words distinguished in many languages by their function as connectors between words, phrases, clauses or sentences, as and, because, but, however.
    b. any other word or expression of similar function, as in any case.

You’ll notice that, while these definitions do point out that ‘regardless’ can be used as a transition, nowhere does it state that a word or phrase used as such loses it’s original meaning. And, while your use of ‘regardless’ as an adverb does preclude it from modifying nouns, it doesn’t stop it from altering the meaning of a preceding sentence or clause. This is exactly what happened with your suggestion for how the OP should have been written: it changed the meaning from, “I can’t -Yoinking!- believe this; can someone offer a better explanation than this hyperbole,” to, “Took longer than expected, but we’ve finally got Neutral Flag! Thanks, 343i. Don’t expect the same amount of gratitude if this happens again. Thanks all the same.” Your suggestion loses its bite with this statement, substituting it with a growl muffled by treats.

> And I tried to forget my English lessons :confused:

Sorry, we’re done now.

> But you’re title almost sums it up perfectly, would you prefer a extremely late Neutral CTF rather than nothing at all?

As I’ve said before, I’m glad Neutral Flag is finally being introduced to Halo 4 Matchmaking; the more gametypes players have to choose from, the better. What I find so frustrating is that it’s taken eleven months for 343i to get one classic Halo gametype into Matchmaking.

> snip

Yes, but then shouldn’t you have been making and maintaining threads like this BEFORE they did something right?

And then posted in your thread something like- “Ok 343, I like how you’re adding Neutral Flag, but you’re sill moving waaaay too slow. It’s been 10 months already for Yoink’s sake, let’s get some more of those gametypes in!”

I understand your point, and kinda agree, but complaining about an issue only when steps are taken to fix it (and also complaining about how that step was taken) just seems a little counterproductive, you know?

> I understand your point, and kinda agree, but complaining about an issue only when steps are taken to fix it (and also complaining about how that step was taken) just seems a little counterproductive, you know?

The issue at hand here isn’t the problems themselves, but how long it takes 343i to fix those issues. How has 343i taken steps to make more timely fixes? Think about how long it took 343i to add a basic 4v4 Slayer gametype with 1 preset loadout and motion tracker enabled. Think about how long it took them to add a BR to that preset loadout. Think about how long it took them to fix the Spartan Assault Operation F cloud save issue. Think about how long it took them to look into Campaign and Spartan Ops Theater before finally deciding they couldn’t do it. Think about how long it took them to integrate CSR, which wasn’t even an update to the game. Think about how long it took them to make file sharing work. Think about how long it took them to tell everyone that Champion’s Bundle content wouldn’t work in Spartan Ops. Think about how long it will have taken to fix the issues resulting from the August TU. Think about how long it will have taken them to integrate Neutral Flag into Matchmaking. Tell me, what has 343i done, including recently, to make me believe that they are capable of updating their games in a timely manner?

I promise you that if they were releasing content and resolving issues in a more reasonable amount of time, this wouldn’t be an issue. If 343i implemented a new gametype (meaning not something any of us could do via custom game options, like Legendary Slayer) every couple of weeks, or if they laid out a plan of potential implementations and carried them out, I would be perfectly content. But what 343i has told me here is that they haven’t abandoned adding new content to Halo 4, but are instead actively working on it, and that means that I can expect new content in the form of a gametype at the rate of probably somewhere around one every three months. The time it takes 343i to make any changes or additions is not at all appropriate considering the magnitude of the additions or changes.

The new content that they’re adding is great, but their speed and timeliness is not so much. The latter is what the complaint is about. If 343i doesn’t want to hear the complaints, the solution isn’t to stop making gametypes; the solution is to make them more quickly.

> Snip

I honestly wasn’t thinking about it like that, but yes.

It’s just that the OP is so centered around Neutral Flag being implemented that it comes off as a compliant after the fact. I’m left thinking- “Yeah, it should have been implemented sooner, but it has been now. Why complain? This is a good thing.”

A more general thread, not about any one specific feature (especially one now implemented), would get the point you mentioned across a lot more effectively.

> One Flag is even more basic, and it’s still not there.

What if I told you that the Neutral Flag gametype allows the option for 1-Flag and even Multi-Team Flag. So you basically just got 3 new Flag gametypes for the price of 1.

Slow? Of course. But man am I happy all 3 are finally in!

> > One Flag is even more basic, and it’s still not there.
>
> What if I told you that the Neutral Flag gametype allows the option for 1-Flag and even Multi-Team Flag. So you basically just got 3 new Flag gametypes for the price of 1.
>
> Slow? Of course. But man am I happy all 3 are finally in!

What if I told you that the 1-Flag option does not work at the moment?

> Still waiting on the other Gametypes that were stripped out of this game:
>
> One-Flag CTF
> Assault
> Headhunter
> Invasion
> Juggernaut
> Stockpile
> Race
> VIP
>
>
> As well as the options that were looked over for the Gametypes that we do have.

… Please tell me you’re not serious about Stockpile and Headhunter. Those were some of the worst gametypes in Reach.