Better Allied AI please?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I was always under the impression that Marines were in-game to provide assistance, such as combat support to take down larger opponents, or suppression fire to draw fire away from the Player, yet the only assistance i find them give me is temporary cannon fodder.

I have a squad of 4 Marines attacking elite, after a few seconds, all the marines are dead, and the Elite is untouched. There’s a marine by himself getting pestered by a grunt, but instead of moving to cover, the Marine just sits there, getting slowly chewed away by the grunt’s plasma pistol. There are even Marines that throw Grenades at walls. Marines at their current state fire short bursts with their weapons, literally deal half the damage the player deals, run straight into battle, and can’t kill a thing by themselves

I feel like that’s a little ridiculous, the best troops the UNSC has to offer, fail to take down even the weakest that the Covenant has to offer. I understand that the Covenant posses far more advanced weaponry than the UNSC, however, the Covenant is Relatively disorganized in their military, while the UNSC is very to-the-letter about combat (as it seems). It also makes no sense to me that a full squad of Marines cannot take down a single elite without taking severe casualties. If there are 5 Assault Rifle bearing marines combating an elite, 4 or 3 should come out alive, not 1.

I also understand that it isn’t the easiest thing to program AI, but look at the hostiles we deal with. They evade frequently, fire long and damaging bursts, and take cover, all things that marines don’t even come close to doing. If programming somewhat formidable enemies can happen, programming marines that are worth a damn can’t be too hard right? Marines should be tactical, and Combat-wise, and with the potential of the Xbox One, it’s all possible… right?
You know how Marines always taunt the Covenant during fights? Why can’t those taunts hold some weight? You know how Halo 4 marines have a skull design on the helmet? Why can’t that skull represent what the Marine will do to the enemies, rather than the other way around?

Now while I don’t expect marines to do the job of killing everything for the player, they should still be able to help in a much larger way, and make it look like their programming was actually worth 343i’s time.

Let me give some examples of what I imagine them doing:
I feel like their basic combat behavior could be improved significantly. I should feel like I’m working with real troops, not bodybags with guns:

  • Marines will form squads of 4-6 troops each, and will group together and engage the same target on the battlefield. Marines are much more effective in numbers, so they should try and group together to survive. And Real troops wouldn’t just charge into battle by themselves.
  • Marines will melee at close range, and deal about 1/3 the damage the player deals, meaning they can finish off weakened enemies. (Remember, Military troops are trained to be strong, obviously they can’t be as strong as a Spartan, but they still have to have SOME strength)
  • Marines will evade frequently when shot at, doing Barrel rolls and sidespins to throw the enemy off, as well as constantly moving sideways so that enemies cannot hit them spot-on every time. The best UNSC troops shouldn’t stand around in the middle of combat.
  • Marines will attempt to fire busts when other marines are not firing. This allows for much more damage to be dealt. If enemies are constantly pelted by bullet fire, their shields cannot recharge, and they can’t choose a specific marine to put a priority target on.
  • Marines will fall back to cover, or to the Player if overwhelmed, as again, Marines shouldn’t stand around only to get killed.
  • Marines will lean out of cover to fire from safety when in cover. They shouldn’t just run out of cover, only to be annihilated.
  • Heavily suppressed Marines will attempt to blind-fire from behind cover. Marines doing so will rarely hit their targets, but are much safer from enemy fire.
  • Marines will attempt to assassinate Grunts and Jackals single handily if hostiles are encountered without noticing. Marines can assassinate Elite Minors in groups of four, three to tackle, and one to deliver the knife. (Marines are supposed to be physically strong, like real soldiers, and they are equipped with combat knives, so why not let Marines use them?)
  • Marines will automatically take cover if the encounter an armored vehicle without power weapons. If real troops encountered a tank, would they stand in front of it and get blown the -Yoink! - Up?
  • Marines never throw grenades in tight spaces, and when they do, they yell “Frag out!” or something similar. Marines shouldn’t be stupid enough to throw Frags at walls and kill themselves. I have also had numerous instances where Marines killed me on accident with a Frag Grenade.
  • Marines that encounter a tough enemy will call them out to assist the player, for example “we got a Hunter, right in front” or “Fuel Rod Elite, Watch yourselves!” If you’re fighting something off, it’d be nice to know when a hostile is trying to flank you, so you don’t get killed in a really cheap way.
  • Marines will attempt to distract Hunters so the player can target their backs. They already can’t do much against one, why not make them more useful against one?
  • Marine Groups will try to bait and flank Jackal Warriors to counter their shields.
  • Marines that are picked up by Prometian knights will light a grenade and shove it into their mouths, killing them both, as it’s better to take the hostile down with you, rather than to die, and leave it alive. (As seen on the Halo 4 mission, Infinity)
2

Marines should react to the battlefield differently when wielding different weapons to make them more effective fighters:

  • Assault Rifle:

Marines wielding Assault rifles will target hostiles with shields more frequently, and will group together with other Assault rifle Marines, the group will attempt to engage a single shielded target from different angles to prevent casualties via splash damage. The marines will stay at mid-close range from their target, and will fall back to cover if badly injured or out-numbered. They fire with 10-14 round bursts every 2.5 seconds and evade frequently[/Spolier]

[/li]1. Battle Rifle

Marines wielding Battle Rifles will stand further away from their target compared to Assault rifles. Battle Rifle Marines will help to support Assault rifle marines with their target, and will fire their bursts when other marines have stopped firing. Battle rifle Marines will attempt to move away from their target if it comes too close. Battle Rifle Marines will attempt to target unshielded hostiles when in small groups, and will attempt to make headshots. (Marines will deal less damage with headshots when compared to the player, but their damage is still increased upon gaining a headshot) they fire 2-4 bursts per firing every 2 seconds and crouch to fire often.1. Shotgun:

Marines with Shotguns will often stay behind cover waiting for hostiles to come near. If other marines encounter a Shotgun marine, they will attempt to lure a hostile to the shotgun marine for a quick kill. If no effective cover is available, the shotgun marine will move with a group of other marines for protection, and will charge at hostiles while they are distracted by squadmates. Shotgun marines fire one blast every 3 seconds.1. DMR:

Marines with DMRs will stay a good distance away from their targets. If they encounter other DMR marines, they will try to distance themselves from each other, to prevent sniper bait. DMR marines will attempt to protect their squadmates by engaging unshielded hostiles within a close vicinity of their squadmates. They will attempt to retreat if they encounter hostiles at close range. They fire 2-4 shots per firing every 3 seconds.1. Magnum

Marines with Magnums will attempt to retreat to cover until given a better weapon. Magnum marines will group with others and will attempt to suppress hostiles of all kinds. They Spam 5-7 shots per firing every 2 seconds.1. Railgun

Marines with Railguns will hide themselves in groups of other marines and will target tough hostiles, such as elite generals, Promethian knights, and Hunters. When firing a charge, the marine will yell “Firing!” to avoid friendly fire, and any marines near a Railgun while he is firing will evade away. They fire one charge every 5-8 seconds.

  1. SAW

Marines with SAWs work much like Assault Rifle marines, attacking with groups at close range. They will target hostiles with thick or fully-charged shields mostly. when about to fire a burst, they will yell something like “Lighting him up!” or “Firing!” to avoid friendly fire. SAW Marines fire approximately 20% of the clip every 3.5 seconds.1. Rockets

Marines with Rocket Launchers will stay away from other marines, and will target clusters of hostiles, tough enemies, or vehicles. When firing, the marine will yell “Backblast Clear! Firing!” and any nearby marines will evade away. Marines with rockets can lock onto aircraft to fire a seeking missile. They will fire one rocket every 4 seconds1. Spartan Laser

Marines with Spartan lasers will act similarly to rocket marines. They will target vehicles and tough enemies. When firing, they will yell “Charging up!” and nearby marines will move away. Laser marines will fire a laser every 4-5 seconds

[/list]

I hope I don’t need to go over covenant weapons too much, but despite being foreign to the UNSC, Marines should still make good use of any covenant weapons they are given.

One idea I had was to have specialized marines in combat, to add more depth into the UNSC, and to add more potential into the UNSC’s firepower on the ground:

  • Standard marine:
    just your normal marine. Average health, work well in groups.

  • Hellbringers:
    Specialized Flamethrower Marines that deal heavy damage against Infantry at close range. Hellbringers will usually be supported by 2-3 Standard marines for clean-up kills. Hellbringers are slightly better armored than standard marines, but move much slower to boot. Hellbringers will fire their Flamethrowers in a sweeping arc rather than at a specific target, so that they can strip shields and eliminate weaker hostiles. They shoot out a continuous beam of fire for 3-4 seconds, and then they move behind other marines to cool down for about 4-7 seconds before firing again. When Hellbringers are about to flame an area, they will yell something like “Stand Back!” or “Lighting 'em up!” and will often taunt enemies with fire-related phrases such as “Do ya’ like fire!?” or “Now YOU feel the burn!”. When a Hellbringer is about to fire, other marines will fall back behind the Hellbringer in question. On higher difficulties, Hellbringers wil fire flashbangs at tougher hostiles. (Elite generals, Hunters) You cannot trade weapons with a Hellbringer

  • Spartan IV:
    Spartans are essentially, Sterioid-enfused, energy-shielded, super marines that will hold their title well. Spartans evade 2x more frequently than Standard marines, and evade much more elaborately and effectively, not only using rolls and sidespins, but also Ariel cartwheels and front/backflips. Spartans will melee at the same amount of damage as the player deals, and Spartans will often trigger elaborate grappling animations when in melee combat with elites. Spartans are 2x as effective with all weapons, dealing full damage on headshots, and firing much longer bursts. Spartans can assassinate all hostiles single-handedly if any are encountered without noticing.

  • Snipers:
    Specialized marines that wield a sniper rifle. These marines cannot be traded weapons with, and have a very rare occurrence on the battlefield. Snipers will be far away from hostiles and will snipe tough hostiles with headshots, however, if they are encountered at close range, they cannot fire their weapons, but they will retreat to a further location.

  • Medics:
    Field Marines that have the ability to revive and heal other Marines. They can wield any weapons a standard marine can wield, but cannot perform their jobs when given power weapons. If a marine falls in combat and there is a medic nearby, his squadmates will attempt to pull his corpse behind cover, if they succeed, the medic will attempt to revive the marine. medics have a 1/40 chance of reviving the fallen marine, and this chance increases by 5 if any other medics up to 4 total are present (meaning that 4 medics have a 1/20 chance of reviving a marine) after combat, medics can/will heal any alive marines to full health.

These are just ideas.

Thoughts?

3

I approve of this topic!

I could make bundles of paragraphs elaborating on the nature of allied AI, but it’ll be easier to say this: Make them more varied

In Halo 4 you have a bunch of marines that look the same, speak the same, and act the same. It’s really bland and uninteresting compared to previous incarnations.

4

Really good ideas here. Agreed, the friendly AI is a bit stupid, however I don’t want them to carry us through the Campaign while we do nothing, they should be more useful though. Simple counterbalance to this would be to make friendly AI and enemy AI smart, but outnumber the friendly AI with enemy AI by a significant margin, so fights are in the enemy’s favour. No matter how we view it, the Covenant should always be a more formidable force than Humanity in battle.

Your ideas are fantastic and is what next gen is all about, adding new experiences that make the experience more dynamic and believable. Having Marines operate more like soldiers and playing a more integral role in combat would allow for a more realised battlefield and more interesting (and possibly challenging) combat scenarios. I really like the specific behaviours you’ve thought up, because specific behaviours are easier to program than very general dynamic behaviours.

5

These ideas are excellent and if implemented would make Halo battles realistic and immersive.

+1 OP.

6

I would thank you but I keep getting a error message.

7

Agreed. Friendly AI does need to be stepped up.

8

I like these ideas. They should also make the Marines and Army troopers represent a larger chunk of humanity. -There were no female marines in H4, there should be.
-Soldiers of more varied descent should be present, there arent any of asian, african, indian, polynesian, etc descent
-more voices. More accents.
-different armour and uniforms representing different units (eg an armoured division wearing lighter armour to allow them to fit in the tanks, recon squads in camouflage)
-give the soldiers names again, like in Reach (thats the features i still want to be brought over from cod, everything is named. The cod features in h4 im fine with)

9

I am impressed by how much thought you have put into this, well done, I like your ideas.

> I would thank you but I keep getting a error message.

The Second Post? Can’t open the menu on that, weird.

10

> I like these ideas. They should also make the Marines and Army troopers represent a larger chunk of humanity. -There were no female marines in H4, there should be.

funny, i haven’t noticed untill now that there were no Female Marines In H4.
Probably due to the fact that marines were so insugifictant in Halo 4.

the biggest group of marines you see in the game is six, while in other games, it could go up to twelve or more (halo 3 is a fine example of this)

> -Soldiers of more varied descent should be present, there arent any of asian, african, indian, polynesian, etc descent
> -more voices. More accents.

I’ve always wanted to see Marines with German or Russian accents.
it would remind us that the UNSC is a Global unification, and not simply an extension of the United States’ Military

> -different armour and uniforms representing different units (eg an armoured division wearing lighter armour to allow them to fit in the tanks, recon squads in camouflage)

good idea
however, Halo 4 had different marine disigns that fit teribly in otehr situations.
that being said, it was only 2 different versions of the armor for the same type of soldier.

all i’m saying is, don’t make soldiers with unfitting armor to the environment. For example, don’t give Marines Jungle cammo while they are in the dessert.

> -give the soldiers names again, like in Reach (thats the features i still want to be brought over from cod, everything is named. The cod features in h4 im fine with)

that was a cool feature in reach, the fireteams idea
the anmes were cools and allowed teh player to feel like he was acctually part of the UNSC’s force.

however the fireteams idea didn’t work, Mariens by default are programmed to follow the player to an extent, and considering how poorly Marines fight, the idea was a waste of time.

anyway, like other shooters (CoD, Battlefiled) they guys in your squad have names, but that’s because you stick with them throughout the campaign, and they seldom change to other troops.
in Halo, Marines are simply there for combat support, not to help tell the story.

all i’m saying here is, i’m fine with marines having names :stuck_out_tongue:

11

> I would thank you but I keep getting a error message.

same here OP

12

> > I would thank you but I keep getting a error message.
>
> same here OP

my second post seems to be having problems, i’m trying to find a solution for it

13

I would like the A.I to be viable on Legendary…Those poor meatshields.

14

Many people point out the horrible driving. But they forget about other things associated with marine vehicle interaction.

Things like:

-sob marines not staying in their seats
-sob marines driving off with your vehicle
-sob marines taking too long to slow down for you or not stopping unless you shoot at them
-sob marines taking too long to get in your vehicle
-sob marines flipping your vehicle upright, which you may want flipped
-sob marines refusing to get in your vehicle
-sob marines chasing your vehicle for what seems to be an endless pursuit, when you want the vehicle to yourself (i.e. with no gunner, you can stealthily bypass some enemies). It should be timed, not distance related!
-sob marines hogging vehicle seats (you get an AR marine off and expect the RL marine to get in. That does not happen and you have to take the RL and give it to the AR marine or drive far enough to discourage the stupid AR marine. Or kill the AR marine…)

Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if they completely reverted to CE in this regard. They could only drive Ghosts in that game and once flipped out or the Ghost was flipped, they were disinterested. They were like sheep, firmly obedient and easily manageable. And they looked up to me.

When I see their faces, I can’t help but smile (also, I don’t mind Halo 2 marines, despite being the progenitor of the aforementioned issues).

When I see the faces of Halo 3, Halo: Reach, and Halo 4 marines, I weep. And curse… bitterly. Silently. Before I explode into a profanity-laced tirade and begin thinking wicked thoughts, about silencing my -Yoinking!- marines so I can calm the -Yoink- down.

Though I did appreciate the fact that marines cannot drive Wraiths in H4. Getting a marine into the H4 Wraith turret is a good way to preserve them or preserve enemies. Also a good way to keep track of them when you’re using Promethean Vision. If only it was like this for every vehicle.

That said, I’m sure some still remember the epic H2/H3 vehicular battles and will actually GASP want marines driving vehicles.

<mark>So there should be a skull that enables general marine driving. Think about it, allies piloting vehicles will present a greater challenge for the player.</mark>

LIFE WILL BE SO MUCH EASIER WHEN MARINES STOP DRIVING.

May that -blam!- Mongoose pilot on The Covenant perish in flames…

/rant

15

I would love to see Spartan AI using AA’s. Imagine jetpacking to vantage points, sneaking past enemies with AC or Recharging the player and other AI with regen field.

16

> Many people point out the horrible driving. But they forget about other things associated with marine vehicle interaction.

Driving pathing is hard to program as i hear, but with 343i’s bigger team and the potential of the XB1, i’m sure that they can get something done about it.

the other stuff you listed also is pretty annoying and should be fixed also.

> Things like:
>
> -sob marines not staying in their seats
> -sob marines driving off with your vehicle

I’ve always had relatively obedient Marines, so i can’t really understand what you’re trying to say here.

it’d probably be easy to program code that makes it so Allies cannot leave the vehicle unless ordered to by the player, or an explosive projectile is about to hit the vehicle"
and the second point could be countered by having code that makes it so marines will not drive away from the player unless they either A) get in the vehicle, B) order the Marine out of the vehicle C) get in another vehicle, or D) move a VERY large distance away from the vehicle (Implying that you want to go on foot)

:expressionless:

> -sob marines taking too long to slow down for you or not stopping unless you shoot at them

make it so if you aim at them (your crosshairs line up with the vehicle) the Marine immediately stops the vehicle?

> -sob marines taking too long to get in your vehicle

i only found this problem in Reach

> -sob marines flipping your vehicle upright, which you may want flipped

not sure why you want a vehicle to be flipped over and stay that way…

> -sob marines refusing to get in your vehicle

make it so if you Honk, or aim at a Marine in question, they will gladly hop on.

> -sob marines chasing your vehicle for what seems to be an endless pursuit, when you want the vehicle to yourself (i.e. with no gunner, you can stealthily bypass some enemies). It should be timed, not distance related!

this one is pretty annoying also, having marines do whatever they can to get in your vehicle

i just think that if you start moving without anyone aboard, Marines should stop following you.
and they will only attempt to get on if you move within a close vicinity of them, and aim at them/ Honk.

> -sob marines hogging vehicle seats (you get an AR marine off and expect the RL marine to get in. That does not happen and you have to take the RL and give it to the AR marine or drive far enough to discourage the stupid AR marine. Or kill the AR marine…)

having code that gives a priority to Heavy weapons Marines for passenger seats

and again, there could be code that makes it so you aim at the marine you want in, so if an AR marine hops in, you could aim at the Rocket marine, and they would switch places.

> Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if they completely reverted to CE in this regard. They could only drive Ghosts in that game and once flipped out or the Ghost was flipped, they were disinterested. They were like sheep, firmly obedient and easily manageable. And they looked up to me.

you can’t trade weapons with CE marines, so there would be less Rocket marines right?
and also, they only engage targets if shot at by them.

again, i usually have fewer problems with Marines driving than i do with people driving in matchmaking (which is a big deal)

> LIFE WILL BE SO MUCH EASIER WHEN MARINES STOP DRIVING.

i think it would be easier just to modify the AI code to make them much more obedient to the Player’s wishes.

you can’t be the only vehicle on the battlefield, one Scorpion versus 50 wraiths and 20 phantoms (plus some ghosts here and there) can’t always end out well :stuck_out_tongue:

17

You should be able to give orders to marines in Halo 5.

18

> > Many people point out the horrible driving. But they forget about other things associated with marine vehicle interaction.
>
> Driving pathing is hard to program as i hear, but with 343i’s bigger team and the potential of the XB1, i’m sure that they can get something done about it.
>
> the other stuff you listed also is pretty annoying and should be fixed also.

Bungie had a bigger team by the time of Reach and they weren’t able to do anything about it (then again, I think they sabotaged the allied AI intentionally…).

> I’ve always had relatively obedient Marines, so i can’t really understand what you’re trying to say here.

In normal gameplay, they’re slightly less annoying. But when you’re playing for the sake of getting as many marines as possible, their true colors are revealed!

> it’d probably be easy to program code that makes it so Allies cannot leave the vehicle unless ordered to by the player, or an explosive projectile is about to hit the vehicle"
> and the second point could be countered by having code that makes it so marines will not drive away from the player unless they either A) get in the vehicle, B) order the Marine out of the vehicle C) get in another vehicle, or D) move a VERY large distance away from the vehicle (Implying that you want to go on foot)

I certainly hope so. Good of you to mention the threat of explosions!

Yes please!

> :expressionless:

xD This is what I’m like when I play Halo 3 on Legendary. I go on rants. I find Halo 3 more harder and punishing than Halo 2. 0.0

> not sure why you want a vehicle to be flipped over and stay that way…

Think about it this way, if Hog gunners are killing everything before you get the chance to, wouldn’t you want them on foot? Also, flipped vehicles make great blockades when I need to contain marines or relocate some.

I prefer having an army of marines on foot than in vehicles. Sweet domination!

> this one is pretty annoying also, having marines do whatever they can to get in your vehicle
>
> i just think that if you start moving without anyone aboard, Marines should stop following you.
> and they will only attempt to get on if you move within a close vicinity of them, and aim at them/ Honk.

It’s like they think they can keep up. xD

> having code that gives a priority to Heavy weapons Marines for passenger seats
>
> and again, there could be code that makes it so you aim at the marine you want in, so if an AR marine hops in, you could aim at the Rocket marine, and they would switch places.

I believe that’s already the case, but I don’t think it’s been modified to account for the increasing number of power weapons… a RL marine should get in, not a FRG marine.

I guess the return of the Troop Transport Hog would alleviate the above issue.

> you can’t trade weapons with CE marines, so there would be less Rocket marines right?
> and also, they only engage targets if shot at by them.
>
> again, i usually have fewer problems with Marines driving than i do with people driving in matchmaking (which is a big deal)

Good point.
Not necessarily.

lol

> i think it would be easier just to modify the AI code to make them much more obedient to the Player’s wishes.
>
> you can’t be the only vehicle on the battlefield, one Scorpion versus 50 wraiths and 20 phantoms (plus some ghosts here and there) can’t always end out well :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah aiming and honking sound like a great expansion of communication. It’s a shame the latter has been aesthetic all this time…

I wouldn’t say that. :wink:

19

> I prefer having an army of marines on foot than in vehicles. Sweet domination!

i’m confused as to why you went around killing a bunch of them…

20

> > I prefer having an army of marines on foot than in vehicles. Sweet domination!
>
> i’m confused as to why you went around killing a bunch of them…

The concept of betraying marines for fun or revenge is foreign to you? :confused: