Best q/a re: a halo CE 4v4 playlist

If we could just consolidate all the good points in support of a CE 4v4 playlist…

I’ll start with the easiest of them all.

“What is a CE 4v4 playlist?”

Glad you asked. CE stands for Combat Evolved. Also known as H1. Currently we can only play CE consistently in a 2v2 setting and many (if not most) CE fans would prefer 4v4.

“Kliff, you’re crazy. There’s no way the majority of CE fans would prefer 4v4.”

There’s no way to know exactly what the numbers are. I know the pros eventually used FFA and 2v2 to compete, but that was only the top 1% of the millions that played CE. Even if the top 20% eventually grew to prefer 2v2, that leaves A LOT of us that loved playing games bigger than just 2v2.

I say there’s no way to know the numbers because many of the guys that are on the forums advocating for a 4v4 playlist have friends that want it but don’t get on the forums. And since CE was never available online until now (thank you 343), and we’ve never had a 4v4 playlist, there really is no way to know the numbers.

  1. Unmet demand from a large community of CE fans - current CE population is understated because these fans either grow tired of playing 2v2’s or don’t prefer to play 2v2’s; they opt to try their luck in TS or not play at all.

  2. Not having a 4v4 CE playlist damages the ability to play complete games in the TS and BTB playlists - CE players are likely to leave a non-CE game and vice-versa for H2/H3/H4 players.

  3. CE population is underserved compared to other halos on MCC - a huge proportion of CE players can’t play the game the way they enjoy playing it (compared with a player’s ability to enjoy H2/H3/H4) because of a lack of playlist options.

  4. Population stability - CE population has no chance of decreasing when the backwards compatability update releases. The CE population is also less vulnerable to a huge population swing following the release of H5. If only we could play it the way we would like.

A team of 4 friends can search in any other game-specific playlist and not have to worry about getting stuck with a different title. Sure, a team of 4 can sway the vote heavily toward CE in a cross-game playlist, but with CE always filling the right-most slot in cross-game playlists, it will always lose in a tie.

Let’s get the obvious one out of the way… “The spawn system is terrible! That’s why the pros switched to FFA and 2v2!”

Yeah, we know. We don’t care! Either we’re not good enough or not disciplined enough to take advantage of that fact.

In fact, I personally went to two CE tournaments that were both 4v4. In the first one we got our butts kicked in a 4v4 Team Slayer game in Hang Em High because the other team got us stuck in a spawn trap. We never went home and studied spawn points or spawn traps and we continued to have a blast playing 4v4 CE.

“Wouldn’t the populations of some playlists suffer?”

They have already suffered. The damage is done. Many of the casual fans of CE that wanted more than 2v2 have already quit playing. If there was a 4v4 CE playlist they would come back. Plus, there would be less quitting in Team Slayer and those players would have more fun and word would get out about that. And H2 and H4 would have a better chance of winning thus pleasing fans of those games.

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> I say there’s no way to know the numbers because many of the guys that are on the forums advocating for a 4v4 playlist have friends that want it but don’t get on the forums. And since CE was never available online until now (thank you 343), and we’ve never had a 4v4 playlist, there really is no way to know the numbers.

“Kliff, every game has fans that don’t get on the forums. Where are you going with that?”

The H1 fan base has the most fans that aren’t part of the social media revolution. When we were kids and video games came out you bought them as is. There was no way for developers to change them. So the idea of getting on forums and asking for changes is alien to us.

“Wouldn’t it take forever to find a game and increase wait times in other playlists by diluting those populations?”

Absolutely not. The 4v4 CE fan base has its own population that quit playing long ago because so many non CE fans quit the games that CE won.

I’d like to point out here that there has NEVER been a 4v4 CE playlist. So we can’t use the numbers from the 2v2 playlist as any kind of indicator. That would be like using Nielsen ratings for doubles tennis to say that tennis isn’t popular. The majority of CE fans loved playing with 4v4 or more. Plus, all the other Halos had the luxury of getting the full matchmaking treatment to find out which playlists were the most popular. 343 had the opportunity to give CE that treatment with H1A but opted to use the Reach engine instead. Why in the world you would go to the trouble of porting the PC version of CE this far down the road and only making a 2v2 playlist is beyond me. Additionally, Doubles playlists have always had lower populations than Team Slayer playlists. So, again, you can’t point to the 2v2 CE numbers.

“Why can’t you just play customs?”

Some of us do. But the same could be said for everyone that has a problem with matchmaking. The bottom line is mm is faster than organizing customs. Which is great for a lot of older CE fans that are busy with jobs and families. A lot of CE fans would start playing MMC if there was a 4v4 CE playlist.

I couldn’t agree more. We BADLY need the 4v4. ( I wouldn’t mind 6v6 but… 4v4 is good enough )
Some of the maps are too big for 2x2 ( hang em high ) I prefer a game that is a little more crowded anyways.
Halo 1 4v4 games was a MAJOR reason I was looking so forward to this game. Though I like HAlo 3 maps quite a bit too. Its a major disapointment the way its set up.
Wouldn’t mind a playlist similar to the one with team slayer for H1 - 3 that is a RANKED list. me, and most of my friends are more mediocure players, and the ranked lists in the past were always a BIG help in this regard. ( Sure sometimes we got out killed, but in general ) can’t play the CE1 playlist that is ranked because I’m so annoyed at the 2x2 only…

Thanks…
Hopefully the 343 people read these posts!!!

“Kliff, 343 doesn’t care. They have our money and H1 is too old!”

I hear this one a lot from my friends (we’ve been talking about this for nearly 14 years. I swear, if everything we ever discussed was in one these threads, it’d be 50 pages long).

I couldn’t disagree more. They gave us ODST in MCC. They ported the PC version of CE for us. They’ve slowly been making it work better. H4 was awesome and H5 looks even better. And Halo Wars 2 is on the way.

This is just my personal opinion, and I hope it doesn’t sidetrack the real conversation and I don’t mean any offense by it. But I think 343 is relying too much on pros for input on the possibility of a CE 4v4 playlist (generally you could never rely on them “too much”). The pros are the top 1%. I’m sure even in a game where the other seven are average blue collar CE players they can utterly dominate the game. So the idea to them is ridiculous. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are so many of us that want to play it. Thousands have quit MCC because they couldn’t play 4v4 and there may even be thousands more who would buy it if they knew they could play the gametypes they remember.

Halo CE 4v4 is a classic, historic game type. 343 acknowledged as much with the “Back in the Day” achievement.

I honestly for the life of me cannot figure out why this doesn’t exist. This is gonna be my last post about this for a while. If you want to message me try here,Xbox Live, or Twitter. @HaloCE4v4

You’ve fought hard soldier.

We need to keep this fight alive. Halo CE 4v4 is needed in the worst way possible! How do we get our concerns in front of 343?

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> We need to keep this fight alive. Halo CE 4v4 is needed in the worst way possible! How do we get our concerns in front of 343?

Bravo said to post here. His Twitter handle is @brav

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> > 2533274798110594;15:
> > We need to keep this fight alive. Halo CE 4v4 is needed in the worst way possible! How do we get our concerns in front of 343?
>
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> Bravo said to post here. His Twitter handle is @brav

Btw, I didn’t mean this thread specifically. Just the Matchmaking Feedback and Discussion section. And my Twitter handle is @HaloCE4v4. Another guy that has managed to get Bravo’s attention on Twitter is @willko86.

“What about betrayers? There’s no option to boot in CE.”

True. There is no option to boot betrayers in CE. But I have a feeling the people who betray in CE games in other playlists are doing it because they don’t want to play CE. So if we had a CE only playlist for Team Slayer and 4v4 objective games, we wouldn’t have that problem nearly as much. Yet another great reason for a 4v4 CE playlist.

“Do past Halo sales indicate any sustained interest in Halo CE?”

Here are some sales figures as of Dec 6, 2012. The interesting thing to take away from that is that Halo CE Anniversary sold over 2 million copies ten years after it was released! That’s roughly 1/3 of what the sales are for the original Halo!

And this article indicates that sales for MCC may be as high as 5 million! Considering this is the first time CE is playable on Xbox Live, I think it’s safe to say at least a few hundred thousand of those people bought MCC just to play Halo CE in Matchmaking without being forced into playing anything else or getting betrayed.

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> “Wouldn’t it take forever to find a game and increase wait times in other playlists by diluting those populations?”
>
> Absolutely not. The 4v4 CE fan base has its own population that quit playing long ago because so many non CE fans quit the games that CE won.
>
> I’d like to point out here that there has NEVER been a 4v4 CE playlist. So we can’t use the numbers from the 2v2 playlist as any kind of indicator. That would be like using Nielsen ratings for doubles tennis to say that tennis isn’t popular. The majority of CE fans loved playing with 4v4 or more. Plus, all the other Halos had the luxury of getting the full matchmaking treatment to find out which playlists were the most popular. 343 had the opportunity to give CE that treatment with H1A but opted to use the Reach engine instead. Why in the world you would go to the trouble of porting the PC version of CE this far down the road and only making a 2v2 playlist is beyond me. Additionally, Doubles playlists have always had lower populations than Team Slayer playlists. So, again, you can’t point to the 2v2 CE numbers.

was the halo ce playlist 4v4 from start until maybe february? i know i played halo ce 4v4 and it wasn’t just team slayer. I’m pretty sure they changed it to 2v2 and thats when i stopped playing it mostly