Believe in BTB

Games Halo Infinite
1

By the time Infinite releases it would have been 10 years since H3 BTB in 2010. By no means were Reach or H4 BTB not fun, but BTB has been mishandled for 3 games straight.

5 was dead on arrival then second fiddle to warzone, a playlist over half the MM dev time went to.

Reach had no BTB maps just chopped up invasion maps and forge. From DLC we got 3 that were hardly played. Then from CE anniv we got 2 more that were played in their own playlist.

4 had a good map line-up but due to the nature of infinity settings and the negative reception what could of been a solid experience tried to cater to 2 or 3 different audiences with split playlists or a frankenstein playlist.

In infinite, for the first time since H3 can we get ~4 maps on release in 1 unified experience, that doesn’t have another playlist stacked to undermine its popularity? Can we have faith in BTB and deliver a good experience without splitting it up or throwing it to the side.

Any suggestions for what BTB should have or how it should be handled in Infinite?

2

Hey you should go to my profile and look at my Big Team Battle Post Please!!

3

I, too, miss BTB developer maps being there from the get-go. Halo: Reach’s BTB comprised of Forge maps, Invasion maps, and a couple of DLC maps.

4

I really hope BTB doesn’t take the back seat again, it’s my favourite mode. The way they treated BTB in H5 was a joke.

5

Cod’ s open beta has 32 v 32 crossplay and from all accounts no lag good hit registration . Battlefield has been doing big battles well for some time , time halo stepped up to the plate with infinite or get left by the gaming wayside . Btb needs the BIG brought back into it by focusing on the fun not the req packs

6

I hope it goes back to H3 BTB mode. The problem with H5 were the lack of huge maps.

7

> 2533275031939856;4:
> I really hope BTB doesn’t take the back seat again, it’s my favourite mode. The way they treated BTB in H5 was a joke.

I think 343i learned a lot from Halo 5: Guardians.

8

BTB is by FAR my favorite way to play Halo. I’ve been playing BTB since Halo CE with lan parties. I’m VERY hopeful that 343 recognized the BTB love in our community.

Having a social AND ranked choice at the same time would be great if the numbers were there to support them both that is.

9

> 2533275031939856;4:
> I really hope BTB doesn’t take the back seat again, it’s my favourite mode. The way they treated BTB in H5 was a joke.

I agree. Hopefully Infinite will redeem the disaster that is Halo 5’s BTB

10

> 2533274859620752;7:
> I think 343i learned a lot from Halo 5: Guardians.

The BTB refresh earlier this year & ranked playlist addition are great examples of this. They’ve really been listening to the community.

11

> 2533274859620752;7:
> > 2533275031939856;4:
> > I really hope BTB doesn’t take the back seat again, it’s my favourite mode. The way they treated BTB in H5 was a joke.
>
> I think 343i learned a lot from Halo 5: Guardians.

We thought the same thing about Halo 4…

12

> 2533274801176260;11:
> > 2533274859620752;7:
> > > 2533275031939856;4:
> > > I really hope BTB doesn’t take the back seat again, it’s my favourite mode. The way they treated BTB in H5 was a joke.
> >
> > I think 343i learned a lot from Halo 5: Guardians.
>
> We thought the same thing about Halo 4…

Why? I thought “Halo is going to die after this”, and I was kinda right - depending on how much you appreciate or despise H5’s efforts of course and to be fair, many actually do like this Crysis like direction taken by the series. It just happens that I’m not among them, so the series is factually dead for me!

Also with Don Matrick at the top back than and the devs comments about modern gaming and Halo’s evolution, there was little to no reason to believe that they had learned from past mistakes imho. They just changed direction and left some bones for us old-school Halo fans like equal start.

Even now, I still don’t fully trust the dev or MS with this ip! And I hate saying it, because I respect a lot of the people working at 343i. They got a bunch of gaming big names among their line, but the overall vision at the studio is not coherent with fan’s expectations sadly!

That said, this time around things seems to be a bit different. Don’t have high hopes for Hi, but I do cross my fingers this time around!

13

> 2533274801176260;11:
> > 2533274859620752;7:
> > > 2533275031939856;4:
> > > I really hope BTB doesn’t take the back seat again, it’s my favourite mode. The way they treated BTB in H5 was a joke.
> >
> > I think 343i learned a lot from Halo 5: Guardians.
>
> We thought the same thing about Halo 4…

They didn’t? They completely ditched the Halo 4 gameplay design, They completely ditched Spartan Ops and introduced Warzone. Considering everything one might dislike about Halo 5, a lot of mistakes they made are completely different from the ones they made with Halo 4. Putting personal gripes aside, the campaign of Halo 4 was fairly well received while the multiplayer was the pain point. In Halo 5, they botched the campaign, but the multiplayer has been overall better received.

I think it’s unreasonable and a bit disrespectful to imply that they didn’t learn a lot from Halo 4. It’s just that learning a lot doesn’t make you immune to mistakes. It doesn’t mean there still isn’t a lot left to learn.

14

> 2535406126289417;5:
> Cod’ s open beta has 32 v 32 crossplay and from all accounts no lag good hit registration . Battlefield has been doing big battles well for some time , time halo stepped up to the plate with infinite or get left by the gaming wayside . Btb needs the BIG brought back into it by focusing on the fun not the req packs

Totally agree. I played only a few minutes of the Open Beta and loved it. I’m hoping to see Infinite’s BTB become competitive with the likes of Battlefield and Battlefront 2. It doesn’t have to do the same things those games do and I hope 343i doesn’t, but taking the older games’ BTB formula and making them bigger and better is a simple way of making Halo’s BTB one of the best modes in all of gaming again. There’s so much potential with all the new hardware and supposed server power and I hope they capitalize on it this time around.

15

> 2535418288909351;10:
> > 2533274859620752;7:
> > I think 343i learned a lot from Halo 5: Guardians.
>
> The BTB refresh earlier this year & ranked playlist addition are great examples of this. They’ve really been listening to the community.

Yeah, I just wish that stuff came sooner.

> 2533274801176260;11:
> > 2533274859620752;7:
> > > 2533275031939856;4:
> > > I really hope BTB doesn’t take the back seat again, it’s my favourite mode. The way they treated BTB in H5 was a joke.
> >
> > I think 343i learned a lot from Halo 5: Guardians.
>
> We thought the same thing about Halo 4…

They did change a lot of stuff from Halo 4 for the better. Other stuff they kinda messed up, though.

16

> 2533274859620752;15:
> Yeah, I just wish that stuff came sooner.

Same here, but glad it came regardless.

17

I want Ranked BTB at launch personally. BTB is a phenomenal casual experience, but there is a really nuanced and diverse competitive scene for 8v8s as well.

18

> 2533274795098161;12:
> Why? I thought “Halo is going to die after this”, and I was kinda right - depending on how much you appreciate or despise H5’s efforts of course and to be fair, many actually do like this Crysis like direction taken by the series. It just happens that I’m not among them, so the series is factually dead for me!

> 2533274825830455;13:
> I think it’s unreasonable and a bit disrespectful to imply that they didn’t learn a lot from Halo 4. It’s just that learning a lot doesn’t make you immune to mistakes. It doesn’t mean there still isn’t a lot left to learn.

> 2533274859620752;15:
> They did change a lot of stuff from Halo 4 for the better. Other stuff they kinda messed up, though.

The point I was trying to make is that judging by Halo 4’s post-launch support, H5G would have looked radically different. In fact, even from Reach’s multiplayer updates, Halo 4 itself would have looked nothing like we got. The very first thing 343 did was introduce ZBNS Reach directly followed by CEA and the anniversary maps/playlist, implying that they would return to OG Halo. And look how that turned out. As for the topic of this thread, Halo 4 got plenty of BTB support, both at launch and especially in the DLCs. Was that any foreshadowing for H5G? Nope. The support team at 343 is a completely different group of people than the development branch, so extrapolating from playlist updates on the design choices of the next game is on the same level as consulting a magic 8-ball.

> 2533274825830455;13:
> They didn’t? They completely ditched the Halo 4 gameplay design

Uhm… no, they didn’t? They doubled down on abilities, they doubled down on ADS (which was already hinted at by introducing zoom spread buffs in Halo 4). You could say they refined it, but “ditched” is wrong in every possible sense of the word.
The majority of adjustments was in how certain aspects of mulltiplayer handle (loadouts, ordnance, killcams, etc.), which isn’t gameplay changes but gametype changes.

19

I have some members who regularly play BTB and need more guys to play with!
Flip me and add or a message and roll with us! One of us got Champ already but we won’t stop until the rest of us do.
We just need more than 3 regulars to compete with the full teams we play every other match!

20

> 2533274801176260;18:
> Uhm… no, they didn’t? They doubled down on abilities, they doubled down on ADS (which was already hinted at by introducing zoom spread buffs in Halo 4). You could say they refined it, but “ditched” is wrong in every possible sense of the word.
> The majority of adjustments was in how certain aspects of mulltiplayer handle (loadouts, ordnance, killcams, etc.), which isn’t gameplay changes but gametype changes.

The core design of Halo 4 was based around players selecting their own loadouts and dropping in their own power weapons. The notion of map control was thrown in the corner and there was no emphasis on movement. Halo 5 took movement as the base of the game, and gave map control the center stage again. There’s practically nothing the gameplay designs of these two games share spiritually. You do not get from one to another by “refinement”. Ditching classes is not a “refinement” of the concept, it’s an abandonement. Almost all of the mechanics introduced in Halo 4 were abandoned and are nowhere to be seen in Halo 5.

Armor abilities and Spartan abilities are two entirely different concepts. For armor abilities, the idea is to give each player a single ability that suits their playstyle. The individual armor abilities are very distinct. You have an invisibility, a jetpack, an x-ray vision, an auto-turret, a hologram, a healing field, and a boost pack. It’s a smorgasbord of mechanics that have no unifying intent and no obvious interplay. And why would they? They are designed to give players distinct classes with a particular play style, and the player will only ever have one of them at once.

Spartan abilities are whole another story. Almost all of them cohesively focus on a single task: movement. They are designed to be chainable, giving rise to lots of combo moves, because every player has every Spartan ability in their hands at all times. They have all from the beginning designed to work together as a set.

Even just looking at the concrete abilities, there is only one armor ability in Halo 4 that was promoted to a Spartan ability for Halo 5. There’s nothing these two sets of mechanics share in design philosophy. All they share is the arbitrary name “abilities” and a single mechanic.

> 2533274801176260;18:
> they doubled down on ADS (which was already hinted at by introducing zoom spread buffs in Halo 4)

Really? You’re going to bring up a mechanic that was not present in Halo 4 in any way or form as evidence of how similar the two games are?