Approximately a year ago, this forum was filled with people crying and moaning that bloom was the most terrible thing to ever be in Halo.
Halo 4 is released and a virtually no bloom DMR comes with it.
Now the forums are filled with people crying and moaning that the near bloomless DMR is ruining the game.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
No bloom is fine, RoF is just out of control.
> No bloom is fine, RoF is just out of control.
The overpowering dynamics of the Reach DMR and Halo 4 DMR are almost identical. It is my opinion that the Reach DMR was far more dominate then the Halo 4 version because in Reach, there was only one other competing precision rifle.
“Be careful what you wish for”.
Thats funny. Because for over a year now, players have been “Wishing” or actually Begging for a 1-50 skill rank, and 343 made no attempt to satisfy these player wants.
Instead of hearing the players, they decided to take the BPR from reach and rename it as the CSR for H4.
The fact that some players didn’t like bloom in reach and now call the DMR overpowered without it aren’t the problem. 343 should have balanced the DMR better, its not the players fault.
> “Be careful what you wish for”.
>
> Thats funny. Because for over a year now, players have been “Wishing” or actually Begging for a 1-50 skill rank, and 343 made no attempt to satisfy these player wants.
>
> Instead of hearing the players, they decided to take the BPR from reach and rename it as the CSR for H4.
>
> The fact that some players didn’t like bloom in reach and now call the DMR overpowered without it aren’t the problem. 343 should have balanced the DMR better, its not the players fault.
One word= Deranker’s
I remember the forums a year ago so many ideas and additions. There were threads showing 343 how to make halo 4 the best halo game yet with forge, firefight, matchmaking and custom games. Discussions about the ancient evil being the precursors or flood. 343 got so much wrong with halo 4 they should of just ended halo and made a new franchise. I mean reach is better than 4 in terms of forge, custom games, theatre. The only thing 343 got right was episode 6 onwards of spops, multiplayer could be amazing but all the little gimmicks add up and ruin it.
As for the DMR, bloom is the dumbest idea for halo, followed by loadouts, flinch, insta-spawn, in-game join and AA’s.
DMR is statistically OP but only because of ROF, bullet maganetism and aim assist.
If 343 doesn’t patch it not only do they lack common sense they are incompetant as well.
One wish I do hope is that 343 hires somebody who has common sense, knowledge of balance, isn’t competitive or casual and knows what the community wants and what would benefit halo in the longterm. Pretty sure Treyarch and IW have people like that who look for additions that wouldn’t break the game just add to it. They even took theater and fileshare from halo. 343’s idea is to steal personal loadouts, flinch, killcams, perks and in-game join and implement them in way that is disrespectful to fans of the franchise that made Xbox.
The DMR was the main precision weapon in Halo:Reach. Bloom caused so much randomness to the game. People would spam the trigger and aim anywhere and they would kill those who timed their shot perfectly. It was necessary for the Bloom to go.
> > No bloom is fine, RoF is just out of control.
>
> The overpowering dynamics of the Reach DMR and Halo 4 DMR are almost identical. It is my opinion that the Reach DMR was far more dominate then the Halo 4 version because in Reach, there was only one other competing precision rifle.
The Reach DMR really didn’t have a lot of competition to begin with. However, it was more dominant compared to automatics then than it’s now. But the Halo 4 DMR is far easier to use than the Reach DMR and, personally, I believe that if the Halo 4 DMR had the exact same attributes as the Reach DMR (minus bloom) it would be in balance with the rest of the sandbox.
That is considering that the Reach DMR was 130 milliseconds slower by its fastest possible kill time and had a slower average kill time relative to the fastest due to being more difficult to use. It wouldn’t be perfect, but better than the current one.
> > > No bloom is fine, RoF is just out of control.
> >
> > The overpowering dynamics of the Reach DMR and Halo 4 DMR are almost identical. It is my opinion that the Reach DMR was far more dominate then the Halo 4 version because in Reach, there was only one other competing precision rifle.
>
> The Reach DMR really didn’t have a lot of competition to begin with. However, it was more dominant compared to automatics then than it’s now. But the Halo 4 DMR is far easier to use than the Reach DMR and, personally, I believe that if the Halo 4 DMR had the exact same attributes as the Reach DMR (minus bloom) it would be in balance with the rest of the sandbox.
>
> That is considering that the Reach DMR was 130 milliseconds slower by its fastest possible kill time and had a slower average kill time relative to the fastest due to being more difficult to use. It wouldn’t be perfect, but better than the current one.
I could go for that
Bloom to the extent that was introduced to Halo Reach with the DMR was unheard of in any other Halo Game for a precision weapon. Though it’s a game mechanic that works in some games, Blooms just doesn’t belong in Halo’s style of gameplay. That said the bloom of the DMR really wasn’t the biggest problem.
The design of the DMR itself, the fact it had the range it did and it’s a precision rifle. If anything the key problem with Reach was the DMR, the bloom was just an added detrimental byproduct. In no other Halo game apart from Halo 4 and Reach did you have precision rifle weapons that can compete against a sniper at extreme distances, this element on it’s own is what changed Halo for the worst in my opinion.
While replacing the Reach DMR into Halo 4 would improve things compared to how they are now, it’s not the best solution. imo the best solution would be to either remove the DMR or redesign it from the ground up. I do however think that the Light Rifle is everything the DMR should have been in Reach. If the DMR was more like the light rifle, or how it is now but with a significantly reduced kill time (atm the light rifle scoped is 1.4s the DMR is 1.47s, .07s is really not that significant it should be at least 1.82s with how easy it is to use atm).
What the Light Rifle has over the DMR is a different style of usage, yes they’re both long range precision rifles, and i did say this was 1 of the main problems with the DMR, but the Light Rifle is hard to use at the extreme ranges compared to the DMR (in both Reach and 4, however the DMR in Reach was noticeably harder than in 4 because of the bloom). add to this unscoped it’s essentially a different weapon altogether (slower kill times, sort of like a weaker BR).
The Light Rifle would have been the revolution that would have made Reach significantly better than it was (i say significantly because the DMR and bloom wasn’t the only major issue with the game).
As for the poll, Yes i have played Reach, bloom was annoying at 1st but i got used to it, it didn’t belong in the game but neither did the DMR. I still enjoyed Reach (less so than Halo 3) but the bloom didn’t bother me enough overall to stop me from playing it.
> > > No bloom is fine, RoF is just out of control.
> >
> > The overpowering dynamics of the Reach DMR and Halo 4 DMR are almost identical. It is my opinion that the Reach DMR was far more dominate then the Halo 4 version because in Reach, there was only one other competing precision rifle.
>
> The Reach DMR really didn’t have a lot of competition to begin with. However, it was more dominant compared to automatics then than it’s now. But the Halo 4 DMR is far easier to use than the Reach DMR and, personally, I believe that if the Halo 4 DMR had the exact same attributes as the Reach DMR (minus bloom) it would be in balance with the rest of the sandbox.
>
> That is considering that the Reach DMR was 130 milliseconds slower by its fastest possible kill time and had a slower average kill time relative to the fastest due to being more difficult to use. It wouldn’t be perfect, but better than the current one.
I agree that the Reach ZB DMR is superior to the current DMR because it has absolutely no randomness, but its killtime is too long.
Btw, the H4 utility rifles don’t have more aim assist and bullet magnetism than the Halo 2 BR (except for the H4 carbine maybe).
I wasn’t wishing for zero bloom (I was wishing for less accuracy degeneration which was indicated by bloom).
Very consistently I find people complain about the WRONG things. They tend to have a vague idea that something is wrong but no capacity to put their finger on exactly what. They come on here angry and they don’t think too much about what they’re saying, and they really don’t think about what the game might look like if they get what they want.
Usually when I wish for something I’ve tried to think of everything wrong with my wish. I say “Reduce the Shield Recharge Delay from 6 seconds to at most 4 seconds” and I’ve tried to think of everything wrong with that. Finding nothing, I make my wish.
My wishes are rarely granted.
I’ll give 343 some credit though, they granted me a few wishes. They reduced the melee lunge in this game. I had been complaining about that lunge for a long time, as usual other people were complaining about the wrong things (They thought the AR was overpowered in Halo 3 because of its fast set-up for beatdowns, for example, not realizing that all of its power came from the melee lunge).
I complained about no-bleedthrough in Reach because combined with the melee lunge it introduced the unbelievably stupid tactic of just sprinting at someone and going for a double melee. I wished and wished for it to go away and 343 hooked me up.
They really are capable of doing some things correctly, but there’s something very wrong and poisonous over at 343 that’s keeping them from expanding on their good ideas. Instead they have bad ideas and tweak dozens of game features toward those bad ideas. I really think there’s some corporate thug pulling strings pushing the game toward being a “me too” game that just copies the things other shooters do instead of continuing to develop Halo’s own identity.
> Approximately a year ago, this forum was filled with people crying and moaning that bloom was the most terrible thing to ever be in Halo.
>
> Halo 4 is released and a virtually no bloom DMR comes with it.
>
> Now the forums are filled with people crying and moaning that the near bloomless DMR is ruining the game.
>
> Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Because in Reach the bloom was too random and punishing. In Halo 4 it isn’t punishing enough. For any point the magnum has more possible bloom than the DMR.
The DMR needs to include enough bloom to reduce spamming or it needs to have a lower RoF than the Carbine and BR to make it less effective up close.
> > > > No bloom is fine, RoF is just out of control.
> > >
> > > The overpowering dynamics of the Reach DMR and Halo 4 DMR are almost identical. It is my opinion that the Reach DMR was far more dominate then the Halo 4 version because in Reach, there was only one other competing precision rifle.
> >
> > The Reach DMR really didn’t have a lot of competition to begin with. However, it was more dominant compared to automatics then than it’s now. But the Halo 4 DMR is far easier to use than the Reach DMR and, personally, I believe that if the Halo 4 DMR had the exact same attributes as the Reach DMR (minus bloom) it would be in balance with the rest of the sandbox.
> >
> > That is considering that the Reach DMR was 130 milliseconds slower by its fastest possible kill time and had a slower average kill time relative to the fastest due to being more difficult to use. It wouldn’t be perfect, but better than the current one.
>
> I agree that the Reach ZB DMR is superior to the current DMR because it has absolutely no randomness, but its killtime is too long.
> Btw, the H4 utility rifles don’t have more aim assist and bullet magnetism than the Halo 2 BR (except for the H4 carbine maybe).
Except that wasn’t a problem in H2. Only reason you need below…
Was the Halo 4 DMR present in H2? No didnt think so…
> Approximately a year ago, this forum was filled with people crying and moaning that bloom was the most terrible thing to ever be in Halo.
>
> Halo 4 is released and a virtually no bloom DMR comes with it.
>
> Now the forums are filled with people crying and moaning that the near bloomless DMR is ruining the game.
>
> Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
i have almost no problem with the dmr the one thing id do to it is get rid of the bloom completely. bloom sucks i want my guns to shoot where im aiming not randomly spray bullets in all directions
Bloom was… And still is a terrible range balancing mechanic for precision weapons. I did hope it would die with Reach and I despair when I hear people calling for its return. Reducing red reticule ranges and maybe adding Recoil is the solution not bloom… never bloom.
> Bloom was… And still is a terrible range balancing mechanic for precision weapons. I did hope it would die with Reach and I despair when I hear people calling for its return. Reducing red reticule ranges and maybe adding Recoil is the solution not bloom… never bloom.
I can understand this. There are multiple ways to accomplish things, and reducing the effectiveness of a weapon in every scenario is rarely one of them. Usually what a weapon needs when it’s causing problems is a tweak specific to the problem, and a reduction of aim assist range could be one of those things.
I always took issue with people using the term “bloom” to describe their accuracy decreasing as a game mechanic. For me the “bloom” was just the indicator that told me what the weapon was doing, the problem was not the indicator, it was what the weapon was doing. So I like it when my reticule tells me “You’re firing this weapon in a less-than-ideal fashion” but I dislike when my weapon is programmed to fire in a less ideal fashion than it believably would. Thus I was always more bothered by the mechanic of accuracy degenerating than the indicator that represented it, bloom.
Another example is the motion tracker, it’s just an indicator. You can’t change that there are enemies around you, just whether you have an indicator telling you so. The same goes for the ammo counter. You can’t change the fact that your gun will run out of bullets, but you can know how long til it happens.
Bloom was just an indicator, the problem was they wanted to use their newly-coded indicator so they also made the weapons lose accuracy with each shot that regenerated over time. They couldn’t be happy with it remaining an indicator, they had to give it something obvious to indicate.
So what the DMR becomes over powered in this game, in the correct gametypes it should be a PICK UP not spawning weapon. Then again, they let you spawn with the Bolt Shot, which is a bigger problem then the DMR.
The new competitive list should be BR spawns only, and I see no problem at all with that. The DMR in Halo 4 way more functional then the crappy slow -Yoink- from Reach.
> Approximately a year ago, this forum was filled with people crying and moaning that bloom was the most terrible thing to ever be in Halo.
>
> Halo 4 is released and a virtually no bloom DMR comes with it.
>
> Now the forums are filled with people crying and moaning that the near bloomless DMR is ruining the game.
>
> Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Right? I love seeing people who fought so hard against bloom in Reach eat their words.
> > Approximately a year ago, this forum was filled with people crying and moaning that bloom was the most terrible thing to ever be in Halo.
> >
> > Halo 4 is released and a virtually no bloom DMR comes with it.
> >
> > Now the forums are filled with people crying and moaning that the near bloomless DMR is ruining the game.
> >
> > Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
>
> Right? I love seeing people who fought so hard against bloom in Reach eat their words.
You would think these same people would be here praising 343 like a hero. Yet I look around and I literally have not seen one of them.
In hindsight I wonder if 343 would have conducted themselves differently if they knew then what they know now.