TEN-HUT MARINERS! GET YOURSELVES IN ORDER. If the statements about only having one more patch are correct, I would like to propose several balance changes I personally would make to improve the balance of the game. Feel free to give feedback or counterpoints, however I implore you to keep the discussion strictly on a numeral value level. Ergo please refrain from telling me about the new Flood Jackal leader or map that you would like to see. Without further ado, my hog is ready for the full tour.
Structures
-
Banished Turrets- These turrets are useless in every respect. Liquid -Yoink-. They do no noticeable damage to anything in base form and pitiful damage when upgraded. They need buffs to damage in order to provide basic usefulness. Recommend 12% more damage naturally and 20% more upgraded damage. - UNSC Turrets- Useful, but too oppressive against air/infantry when upgraded to counter them. The main problem is the splash damage the turrets have. They deserve to be powerful against their chosen counters, but not slaughter grouped air/infantry with AoE damage. Recommend smaller AoE (uncertain on what percent would be best). - Generators/Power Extractors- Fun strategy involves reactionary playstyles. Affording counter units should be less taxing on players; more later game power equals more flexibility. This being said, if the cost of counter units across the board is lowered, this is unnecessary. Recommend the price reduction of additional Generators/Extractors from 300 per building to 250 per building. If unclear: 200, 450, 700, 950, 1200. - Siege Turrets- Just ridiculous. These turrets should be treated like shield generators and increase in cost per additional turret.Heroes
-
Arbiter- Too much self-sustainability. Fix the heal rate or fix Conduit of Rage. - Atriox’s Chosen- Increase survivability. Powerful but can’t protect himself. Increase base health by 10% - Spartans- The stun is unfair. Reduce stun time to 1 or 2 second. - Grunt Goblins- Unviable early game due to poor health. Increase early game base health 20% but reduce additional health given through upgrades. - Decimus- Not the warlord, I’m talking about the unit drop. The Y ability is too good. It should be toned down to avoid helmet tactics. - Pavium Warlord- The Y ability slow is OP. Reduce severely .Units (Entirely Banished because they are lacking)
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All scouts- Reduce the supply cost of all scouts by about 15 and increase damage against rush units. - Elite Rangers- The power price tag must be better to compete with suicide grunts. Move cost to 75/100. - Shrouds- Useful yet expensive. A lower supply requirement fixes this. 400 supply to 320 supply. - Engineers- 5% better healing. - Methane Wagons- base attack and Y ability both need damage buffs. Yap Yap still can’t handle flamers or Goliaths.Leader Abilities
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Bunker Drop- Reduce cost of Level 1 bunker drop to 250 supply. - Fortifications- 18% per point is not good enough. Make it 30% per point for Atriox viability. - Scout Mine- Further increase the sight range given on both levels to allow the sight to actually matter. It deserves to be a cool utility power. - Plasma Bolt- Slightly more damage to allow early game use. - Sensor Array(That one Johnson ability)- Make it equivalent to a watchtower or better.Sorry if this is a bit sloppy. I just wanted to quickly L A M E N T a few concerns and bless the community with my objective opinions. Again please leave constructive compliments and s2 Cherry bless.
I agree with most of this, but I almost entirely disagree with the section on heroes.
The Arbiter hero unit is powerful, but I think once CoR is toned down the problem will fix itself. You have to think, once CoR and Enforcers have been nerfed, all Arby will have left to him are his hero unit and Ghosts.
Chosen is already a good hero. Hitting hard, having super damaging splash, and being quite fast means that he should fit the “glass cannon” archetype. His HP should not be anything more than it is.
I’m not sure what the duration of the Spartan Slam stun is, but I’ve heard that it’s 5 seconds. That is unreasonable. But to lower that to 1 second would make it nearly useless. 2.5 makes much more sense, as it would still allow for LP combos, but without them being unavoidable.
As is widely accepted, Goblins are not good on T1. But they are an essential part of Yap’s T2 army due to the triple heal they grant. An HP buff on the scale that you’re proposing would be unprecedented. They would be good on T1, sure, but that isn’t their role. Healers across the board have relatively low HP. Just because Golbins are heroes doesn’t change that in my mind.
Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
They in my opinion could use some improvement.
Throwing in a fix to the Hunter Captain would be nice as well, he’s near useless until tech 2 since he can’t deal damage to some infantry.
> 2533274883783969;1:
> TEN-HUT MARINERS! GET YOURSELVES IN ORDER. If the statements about only having one more patch are correct, I would like to propose several balance changes I personally would make to improve the balance of the game. Feel free to give feedback or counterpoints, however I implore you to keep the discussion strictly on a numeral value level. Ergo please refrain from telling me about the new Flood Jackal leader or map that you would like to see. Without further ado, my hog is ready for the full tour.
>
> Structures
> - Banished Turrets- These turrets are useless in every respect. Liquid -Yoink-. They do no noticeable damage to anything in base form and pitiful damage when upgraded. They need buffs to damage in order to provide basic usefulness. Recommend 12% more damage naturally and 20% more upgraded damage. - UNSC Turrets- Useful, but too oppressive against air/infantry when upgraded to counter them. The main problem is the splash damage the turrets have. They deserve to be powerful against their chosen counters, but not slaughter grouped air/infantry with AoE damage. Recommend smaller AoE (uncertain on what percent would be best). - Generators/Power Extractors- Fun strategy involves reactionary playstyles. Affording counter units should be less taxing on players; more later game power equals more flexibility. Recommend the price reduction of additional Generators/Extractors from 300 per building to 250 per building. If unclear: 200, 450, 700, 950, 1200 - Siege Turrets- Just ridiculous. These turrets should be treated like shield generators and increase in cost per additional turret.Heroes
> - Arbiter- Too much self-sustainability. Fix the heal rate. - Atriox’s Chosen- Increase survivability. Powerful but can’t protect himself. Increase base health by 10% - Spartans- The stun is unfair. Remove stun or reduce time to 1 second. - Grunt Goblins- Unviable early game due to poor health. Increase base health 25% - Decimus- Not the warlord, I’m talking about the unit drop. The Y ability is too good. It should be toned down to avoid helmet tactics. - Pavium Warlord- The Y ability slow is OP. Reduce or remove.Units (Entirely Banished because they are lacking)
> - All scouts- Reduce the supply cost of all scouts by about 15 and increase damage against rush units. - Elite Rangers- The power price tag must be better to compete with suicide grunts. Move cost to 75/100. - Shrouds- Useful yet expensive. A lower supply requirement fixes this. 400 supply to 320 supply. - Engineers- 5% better healing. - Methane Wagons- base attack and Y ability both need damage buffs. Yap Yap still can’t handle flamers or Goliaths.Leader Abilities
> - Bunker Drop- Reduce cost of Level 1 bunker drop to 250 supply. - Fortifications- 18% per point is not good enough. Make it 30% per point for Atriox viability. - Scout Mine- Further increase the sight range given on both levels to allow the sight to actually matter. - *Plasma Bolt- 1/10 chance to give a Bonus 300% damage and grant free XP - Sensor Array- Make it equivalent to a watchtowerSorry if this is a bit sloppy. I just wanted to quickly L A M E N T a few concerns and bless the community with my objective opinions.
> *It’s a joke. Maybe.
The grunt goblins don’t need a 25 percent buff as they aren’t meant to be strong and the plasma bolt doesn’t need a buff as it isn’t meant to be strong it’s meant to cripple the enemy are a bit , Pavium’ Y ability i wouldn’t consider op as if you split your army then you will be fine or just get out of pavium’ Range as he can’t chase you with it and we don’t need to remove y ability’s as that would probably be a bit to much of a nerf, siege turrets shouldn’t be treated like shields generators as they are straight up expensive but I could agree with a some small nerfs , banished turrets can get three upgrades maybe a small buff I will understand but buffing them to much can be a problem. This is just what I thought on your proposals
> 2533274925473364;3:
> Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
>
> They in my opinion could use some improvement.
No… not again 
> 2533274924073601;6:
> > 2533274925473364;3:
> > Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
> >
> > They in my opinion could use some improvement.
>
> No… not again
Seriously though. They seem useless.
> 2533274925473364;7:
> > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > 2533274925473364;3:
> > > Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
> > >
> > > They in my opinion could use some improvement.
> >
> > No… not again
>
> Seriously though. They seem useless.
They are in a good spot right now as T2 units without being OP and some spamming them is still a considerable force but can be countered.
> 2533274894985914;8:
> > 2533274925473364;7:
> > > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > > 2533274925473364;3:
> > > > Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
> > > >
> > > > They in my opinion could use some improvement.
> > >
> > > No… not again
> >
> > Seriously though. They seem useless.
>
> They are in a good spot right now as T2 units without being OP and some spamming them is still a considerable force but can be countered.
No one seems to use them or that scout vehicle.
When a unit sees some to no use then yes. Something is wrong.
> 2533274925473364;9:
> > 2533274894985914;8:
> > > 2533274925473364;7:
> > > > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > > > 2533274925473364;3:
> > > > > Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
> > > > >
> > > > > They in my opinion could use some improvement.
> > > >
> > > > No… not again
> > >
> > > Seriously though. They seem useless.
> >
> > They are in a good spot right now as T2 units without being OP and some spamming them is still a considerable force but can be countered.
>
> No one seems to use them or that scout vehicle.
> When a unit sees some to no use then yes. Something is wrong.
I don’t know what skill level you are playing at since you are posting from an account that you don’t have any recorded games on.
We just got over warthogs being the only unit that you need to build to win. The warthog itself is exactly where it needs to be. Combat tech marines give it too much issue but I am pretty sure the damage multipliers for the marine rocket are getting changed in the next balance patch to fix this.
> 2533274840245702;10:
> > 2533274925473364;9:
> > > 2533274894985914;8:
> > > > 2533274925473364;7:
> > > > > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > > > > 2533274925473364;3:
> > > > > > Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They in my opinion could use some improvement.
> > > > >
> > > > > No… not again
> > > >
> > > > Seriously though. They seem useless.
> > >
> > > They are in a good spot right now as T2 units without being OP and some spamming them is still a considerable force but can be countered.
> >
> > No one seems to use them or that scout vehicle.
> > When a unit sees some to no use then yes. Something is wrong.
>
> I don’t know what skill level you are playing at since you are posting from an account that you don’t have any recorded games on.
>
> We just got over warthogs being the only unit that you need to build to win. The warthog itself is exactly where it needs to be. Combat tech marines give it too much issue but I am pretty sure the damage multipliers for the marine rocket are getting changed in the next balance patch to fix this.
Hmmmmm.
Why are my game stats not syncing?
1st off, Sgt Palagoo is the only waypoint warrior that can Ten Hut at me.
-
-Banished turrets are weaker because there is a bug in their targeting that causes them to stop firing. I know the devs are aware of this and I am pretty sure that it will be addressed in the next patch.
-A bunch of us also have expressed concern to them over the UNSC AI turret. Again, I am pretty sure they are already working on it.
-I see no need to make reactors cheaper.
-I know that siege just got done with some nerfs, I don’t think that there are any proposed changes for the turrets but it has been brought up multiple times that they should stack so you are not alone in that thought
-
-The arbiter COR is already being looked at as well as his enforcers. I don’t want any more changes until we see what those to nerfs look like because we don’t need to make him useless
-The chosen is a fantastic unit, I don’t think there is any need to change him
- I believe we proposed to make the Spartan slam 2.5 seconds to make them a bit more fair. I also think scouts should do more damage to infantry heros (at least Spartans) because most banished really struggle with killing them
-I like the decimus unit, I don’t think he needs to be changed
- The grunt goblins are already amazing T2 units, I don’t see any reason to change Yap Yap. He is very strong in the right hands and I am a big fan of different leaders having different learning curves
- I don’t think there is an issue with the Y ability, I think the issue lies more in the ability to drop mines directly on units. Ide rather see that change first.
-
-Scouts are a little too weak against infantry in the early game and a price reduction might off set that. I don’t know for sure, I just know that jackrabbits are pitiful, choppers are okay, and ghosts and skitterers are very good. Any changes should only affect the first 2
- Rangers under perform but that might be a marine issue. Better players than me know the exact details
-Shrouds are a bit too expensive but I really don’t think its enough to warrant a change
-Engineers are fine as they are
-Yap Yap not handeling flamers is a chopper issue and not handling goliaths is due to the fact that goliaths have the core infantry armor type and are too resistant to scouts. Goliaths might also be too tanky and heal to fast but this is not a yap yap issue. LargeGodzilla would know more about this though if you want to get Yap Yap advice from him. He is 1 of 3 or so top tier yap yap mains.
-
-Bunker shouldn’t be cheaper than 325
- Fortifications should be a 100 supply and 50 power decrease for bases with each point
- Scout mine … sure?
- Plasma Bolt… no
- Sensor arrays are fine
The most important balance changes are:
- UNSC turrets nerf and Flamer Buff - UNSC should neither win a rush nor lose to a rush and that needs to change
- Goliath armor type fix - Colonys early game is REALLY strong and some of the fact is due to goliaths cheating
- Counter Measures not stunning units when Brutes fly over. (this is different than the stun from the landing)
- All stuns shouldn’t be more than 2.5 seconds
- Mines should not be able to be dropped directly on units and function as nukes when used with stuns
- Arby CoR changes and enforcer nerf to scouts
- Buff rabbits and choppers to rush units
> 2533274840245702;12:
> 1st off, Sgt Palagoo is the only waypoint warrior that can Ten Hut at me.
>
> 2)
> -Banished turrets are weaker because there is a bug in their targeting that causes them to stop firing. I know the devs are aware of this and I am pretty sure that it will be addressed in the next patch.
> -A bunch of us also have expressed concern to them over the UNSC AI turret. Again, I am pretty sure they are already working on it.
> -I see no need to make reactors cheaper.
> -I know that siege just got done with some nerfs, I don’t think that there are any proposed changes for the turrets but it has been brought up multiple times that they should stack so you are not alone in that thought
>
> 3)
> -The arbiter COR is already being looked at as well as his enforcers. I don’t want any more changes until we see what those to nerfs look like because we don’t need to make him useless
> -The chosen is a fantastic unit, I don’t think there is any need to change him
> - I believe we proposed to make the Spartan slam 2.5 seconds to make them a bit more fair. I also think scouts should do more damage to infantry heros (at least Spartans) because most banished really struggle with killing them
> -I like the decimus unit, I don’t think he needs to be changed
> - The grunt goblins are already amazing T2 units, I don’t see any reason to change Yap Yap. He is very strong in the right hands and I am a big fan of different leaders having different learning curves
> - I don’t think there is an issue with the Y ability, I think the issue lies more in the ability to drop mines directly on units. Ide rather see that change first.
>
> 4)
> -Scouts are a little too weak against infantry in the early game and a price reduction might off set that. I don’t know for sure, I just know that jackrabbits are pitiful, choppers are okay, and ghosts and skitterers are very good. Any changes should only affect the first 2
> - Rangers under perform but that might be a marine issue. Better players than me know the exact details
> -Shrouds are a bit too expensive but I really don’t think its enough to warrant a change
> -Engineers are fine as they are
> -Yap Yap not handeling flamers is a chopper issue and not handling goliaths is due to the fact that goliaths have the core infantry armor type and are too resistant to scouts. Goliaths might also be too tanky and heal to fast but this is not a yap yap issue. LargeGodzilla would know more about this though if you want to get Yap Yap advice from him. He is 1 of 3 or so top tier yap yap mains.
>
> 5)
> -Bunker shouldn’t be cheaper than 325
> - Fortifications should be a 100 supply and 50 power decrease for bases with each point
> - Scout mine … sure?
> - Plasma Bolt… no
> - Sensor arrays are fine
>
> The most important balance changes are:
>
> 1) UNSC turrets nerf and Flamer Buff - UNSC should neither win a rush nor lose to a rush and that needs to change
> 2) Goliath armor type fix - Colonys early game is REALLY strong and some of the fact is due to goliaths cheating
> 3) Counter Measures not stunning units when Brutes fly over. (this is different than the stun from the landing)
> 4) All stuns shouldn’t be more than 2.5 seconds
> 5) Mines should not be able to be dropped directly on units and function as nukes when used with stuns
> 6) Arby CoR changes and enforcer nerf to scouts
> 7) Buff rabbits and choppers to rush units
I agree with everything posted here
I get that people want to fix as many things as possible with the last patch, but, given the fact is the last patch, I don’t think you want to be over-ambitious. The more changes you make, the more likely to screw the balance in some way. Specially when the current state of the game is quite acceptable ( we have the issue of arby and maybe kinsano and that’s the major issues for me; maybe buff some leader not viable right now, idk). I would ask for caution in making tweaks and adjustments
I get UNSC turrets can be frustating, but, idk, an anti- infantry or anti-vehicles turrets cost 60 seconds, 300 supplies and 300 energy, which delays Tech2. If they nerf their damage I think a cost-reduction is in order, like the banished ones.
Also, I have a question: Could it be possible that eliminating the stun + mine combo might affect arby viability? his stun+mine combo is part of his most valuable offensive options. Just asking
I’d also like to see Hunter’s Brand fire or be refunded and cooldown reset when line of sight is broken. It’s pretty frustrating when using near the edge of your unit or army’s vision just for it to cut off before it fires because the unit at the front dies breaking line of sight, taking the supplies and energy used along with it.
> 2533274925473364;7:
> > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > 2533274925473364;3:
> > > Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
> > >
> > > They in my opinion could use some improvement.
> >
> > No… not again
>
> Seriously though. They seem useless.
hahaha bro u dont even know how good they are
<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not make non-constructive posts.</mark>
> 2533274925473364;3:
> Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
>
> They in my opinion could use some improvement.
are u joking there the best
you must be trolling or missing a part of your brain to not see that hogs are the king of the jungle
> 2533275033721600;17:
> > 2533274925473364;3:
> > Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
> >
> > They in my opinion could use some improvement.
>
> are u joking there the best
>
> you must be trolling or missing a part of your brain to not see that hogs are the king of the jungle
Maybe once you fully upgrade them. But by the time you have got to that point the aircraft and tanks are the better options with healing units mixed in.
I also see these forums have not changed in regards to classic insults if an opinion does not conform to the majority. Thanks mate.
> 2533274925473364;18:
> > 2533275033721600;17:
> > > 2533274925473364;3:
> > > Is it me or are the Warthogs in this game underpowered?
> > >
> > > They in my opinion could use some improvement.
> >
> > are u joking there the best
> >
> > you must be trolling or missing a part of your brain to not see that hogs are the king of the jungle
>
> Maybe once you fully upgrade them. But by the time you have got to that point the aircraft and tanks are the better options with healing units mixed in.
> I also see these forums have not changed in regards to classic insults if an opinion does not conform to the majority. Thanks mate.
The warthog is an excellent unit as both a T2 transition and after upgrades. Especially considering how lack luster scorpions are aside from their canister ability. Hogs do not need a buff what-so-ever. I would never transition to hornets in a 1s game because they have almost no building damage without their wingman upgrade. For me, it’s hogs or spartan marine ball.
> 2533274830489835;2:
> I agree with most of this, but I almost entirely disagree with the section on heroes.
>
> The Arbiter hero unit is powerful, but I think once CoR is toned down the problem will fix itself. You have to think, once CoR and Enforcers have been nerfed, all Arby will have left to him are his hero unit and Ghosts.
>
> Chosen is already a good hero. Hitting hard, having super damaging splash, and being quite fast means that he should fit the “glass cannon” archetype. His HP should not be anything more than it is.
>
> I’m not sure what the duration of the Spartan Slam stun is, but I’ve heard that it’s 5 seconds. That is unreasonable. But to lower that to 1 second would make it nearly useless. 2.5 makes much more sense, as it would still allow for LP combos, but without them being unavoidable.
>
> As is widely accepted, Goblins are not good on T1. But they are an essential part of Yap’s T2 army due to the triple heal they grant. An HP buff on the scale that you’re proposing would be unprecedented. They would be good on T1, sure, but that isn’t their role. Healers across the board have relatively low HP. Just because Golbins are heroes doesn’t change that in my mind.
This all makes sense. If CoR does get nerfed, which it should, then the Arbiter doesn’t need his heal rate changed. As for the spartan slam, after considering what vortex lightning is capable of, 2 seconds would not be broken. I’ll edit some of this in light of these facts.