Balance Changes, Halo Wars Update

Games Other Halo
1

This thread is to list the various balance changes. I dont want this threaed to get into numbers too heavily, but rather focus on qaulitative features of the game that CAN BE SUPPORTED BY EVIDENCE. Please, no flame wars. I understand that alot of what people will post will be interpreted as opinion, so try to keep your civil hats on.

I will start us off, and if you know me at all, you know where I will start.

The arbiter is unfair. Whether he be too strong in teams and too weak otherwise, he is by far the strongest covenant leader (looking at just leaders, not their unique units or other bonuses, jsut the leader). One of the most fundamental reasons he is unfair are the bonuses he recieves through his upgrades.

Lets break it down per covy leader, per upgrade. The asterisks on the right denotes an extra bonus gained.

Prophet:

Chair Upgrade 1: Health/damage
Chair Upgrade 2: Health/damage
Chair Upgrade 3: Health/damage/flying******
Leader Power Upgrade 1: Damage
Leader Power Upgrade 2: Damage
Leader Power Upgrade 3: Damage

There is only 1 upgrade for him that changes more than his raw stats, and that is the last chair upgrade that makes him flying, which isnt always an upgrade. This leader sits still while it uses its leader pwoer too, making it an easier target.

Chieftan:

Hammer Upgrade 1: Health/damage/stun******
Hammer Upgrade 2: Health/damage/pull******
Hammer Upgrade 3: Health/damage/infantry execute******
Leader Power Upgrade 1: damage
Leader Power Upgrade 2: damage
Leader Power Upgrade 3: damage

A little bit better than the prophet, but still not great. The stun and pull work great in unison, tanks and other vehicles have a hard time competing with this. The last upgrade, 1 shotting stunned infantry, is almost worthless except for spartans. First the infantry has to be stunned, then another hit should 1 shot them> Most infantry die in 2-3 shots from a fully upgraded chieftan, especially if he has 1 star or more. Thus this upgrade extra isnt really taht good, also because a ton of infantry would be vortexed off far easier and faster. This leader sits still while it uses its leader pwoer too, making it an easier target.

And now, THE ARBITER

Sword Upgrade 1: Health/damage/reflect******
Sword Upgrade 2: Health/damage
Sword Upgrade 3: Health/damage/reflect/INVIS******
Leader Power Upgrade 1: Damage/restore health******
Leader Power Upgrade 2: Damage/cheaper cost******
Leader Power Upgrade 3: Damage/aura for allies******

As cou can see, the arbiters upgrades make him far superior to the other covy leaders.

The two damage reflects are devastating. Not that warthogs are an option, but if you try to ram him once he is upgraded, your basically throwing away warthogs. This damage reflection is UNIQUE to the arbiter, and it gets way better at tech 3.

And ahh, tech 3 arbiter. As if he needed invisibility. Now, even if you happen to find the arbiter’s swords (invis), you can do anything about it til he starts to attack you, meaning he can completely determine when he want to fight you. And wahts even better, he starts to rage and his invisibility doesnt wear off for A LONG TIME, so he basically has free shots at your army. Ive lost 2 canister shell tanks before I have seen an arby several times. Granted this is more of a glitch, but the glitch is taking advantage of an already huge advantage, which is invisibilty. Not to mention the tactical control you could implement, warping in units wherever you want with no chance of your teleport conduit(leader) going down.

Oh yes, health restore is next. Name any other unit that can heal itself while simultanesouly killing other units? Name any unit like that in ANY RTS EVER? Niether of the other covy leaders has this rediculous ability. This makes countering him very tough too. Where as with other covy leaders, you only need to ask if enough damage will remain in the battle to kill the leader. With the arbiter, you have to judge this damage vs the health he will possibly get back, making it far harder on those trying to fight the arbiter. If you have a d-bomb all of this changes of course, but covy dont have a d-bomb, so they are forced to make extremely hard decisions about engaging the arbiter.

Oh boy, my leader power costs way less. On top of all these other EXTREMELY strong upgrades, the cost to implement them all gets reduced a whole bunch. Now the strongest leader power in the game has also become the CHEAPEST. Cheaper than both prophet and chieftan.

And now, when you finally build units and add a ton of firepower to your already devastating arby, he returns the favor and adds tons of fire pwoer right back. THIS IS THE ONLY POSOTIVE AURA/STATUS EFFECT IN THE GAME. There are no other auras, negative or posotive.

AND LASTLY, HE IS THE ONLY LEADER THAT MOVES WHILE USING LEADER POWER. THIS IS THE WORST PART ABOUT HIM. Nothing hits accurately. Nothing. There is no timing of canister shell, no micro to counter it. The 2 other leaders expose themselves while using their leader power, which makes sense. You substitute security for increased damage. Give and take with a skill factor, a beautiful RTS element. But with the arbiter, there is very little give and all take. He doesnt give up anything by being in rage mode beside invis, he does gain: damage, lifesteal, health(through missed attacks), moespeed, relfective armor, and an aura for allies.

Summary:

Arbiter has SEVERAL UNIQUE features to him. He is the only unit that posses these traits, and he has multiple.

  1. Reflect Damage
  2. Restore health while attacking
  3. Cheaper leader power
  4. Move while leader powering
  5. Aura for allies
  6. Invisibility

I have posted stuff about teh arbiter before, but not as detailed as this. I had my share of criticism then, and I am sure I will now, but I find the above to be proof rather than opinion. I dont want responses like “use tanks right” or “time your canister” or “the arbiter sucks in 1v1”. None of those disprove the fact that he is an imbalanced unit, and far too strong in way too many respects.

2

Hey!
First things first. Have you actually played arbiter before? Have you noticed that SOMETIMES he just won’t attack anything or maybe even move? Guess you forgot to included that in your post. And what you described to me with remaining invisible, I do not recall ever happening to me, who plays the Arbiter mostly. Also you forgot the fact that he has the LOWEST health of all the leaders (prophet shield is included because has a ridiculously short recharge time). This meaning that the meager health he gains back, which is really only useful in the beginning, makes him about the health of the Chieftan. And did I hear you complaining that you can’t canister him? You don’t hear me whining that my Arbiter gets one shotted whilist activating rage, by 5 tanks! Talking about powers; the other leaders do SO much more damage with their beams and vortexes than the Arbiter.

3

> Hey!
> First things first. Have you actually played arbiter before? Have you noticed that SOMETIMES he just won’t attack anything or maybe even move? Guess you forgot to included that in your post. And what you described to me with remaining invisible, I do not recall ever happening to me, who plays the Arbiter mostly. Also you forgot the fact that he has the LOWEST health of all the leaders (prophet shield is included because has a ridiculously short recharge time). This meaning that the meager health he gains back, which is really only useful in the beginning, makes him about the health of the Chieftan. And did I hear you complaining that you can’t canister him? You don’t hear me whining that my Arbiter gets one shotted whilist activating rage, by 5 tanks! Talking about powers; the other leaders do SO much more damage with their beams and vortexes than the Arbiter.

No, I have never played the arbiter before. I have never even played halo wars…

Come on now, I said keep our civil hats on. Why would I make this post without evidence, when I call for it myself in the original post?

The invisibility I said was a glitch, not imbalanced. It is a glitch that does let him take advantage of his enemies. And this isnt even the important part of the point that he is invisible. He is basically invulnerable until he attacks, making him the best scout in the game, not mention that this scout can warp in units from his base…

The health gained back is not meager. It is dependent on the health of the unit, and that units health is determined by upgrades as well. Tanks restore about 15 percent of his life. Thats alot. And he does have the lowest life of the 3 leaders, but its not a significant amount. It deosnt even matter how much life he has when he rages, cause nothing hits him. And another one of my favorites is when people say wait for the patch, heel take 25% more damage in rage mode. Well tahts great, 25% more of nothing. What did 0 damage before because it missed does 0 damage now.

And you shouldnt be complaining when 5 canister shells kill your leader. Not one bit. What else would you assume the outcome of a 5 vs 1 unit battle to be? If I walk up to the prophet or chieftan with 5 canister shell tanks, THEY HAVE 0 CHANCE. Far less than the arbiter. Once again, If the arbiter is raging, hes moving around so he cant get hit, whereas the other 2 leaders SIT STILL while they use leader powers, making canister very easy to hit, and the leader kill very easy.

I should never hear a player complain if his leader gets taken out by 5 tanks. Never. They cost more, have more total firepower, have more total life, move faster yada yada yada. What you should be comlaining about is your lack of foresight and the option you chose to keep upgrading your LEADER ONLY, and not build hunters/banshees.

The other leader powers do somewhat more damage, but they are more expensive, and have to be aimed. With the arbiter, your leader power costs less, and can not miss.

4

[Of course I play like a newb but] playing vs. anyone that is good at the Aribter [even 1v1] seems harder than playing against any other Covvy leader.

POR at least has to worry about early hogs, reasonably early hornets, and maybe infantry on some maps.

Brute Chieftan has to worry about the same things. If you can keep him from getting reinforcements [hogs ramming brutes or similar or flamers burning down brutes from melee distance] then you’ll put him in a bad spot. Either he presses the attack and may not blow your base before his goes OR the Chief comes back to protect the base [and possibly get killed if he’s not careful] OR the Chief builds defenses and hopes that this is enough.

Against the Arby none of these early, straightforward, head-on counters work [at the same skill level required against other leaders]. Marines, Hogs, and Hornets are all dealt with easily and with spending fewer resources and time than what it took to make the units in the first place. With these units [at best] you can hope to go to his base and hope they cause more trouble than he’s causing at yours. If Arby teleports back you have to get out of dodge quick or you’ll lose everything you’ve made up to this point. Then you can play hit & run, disrupt hooks, and hope you can somehow survive, get to high tech, and field a good army with good leader powers for when he inevitably hits you with what troops he’s been making.

I’m not saying Arby is unbeatable. Obviously he is beatable. A player that’s really good [or at least really good compared to the level of the Arby player] WILL beat him. What I am saying is that he’s VASTLY better [vs. USNC] than any other leader when skill levels are somewhat comparable.

Of course I doubt we should even try to go into the “logic” of being able to jump around like a fly and swat down early air power like it was nothing. If Arby had an “easy” counter like any of the other leaders it would certainly be a more fair fight.

Edit: I’ll qualify my “vastly better” statement. Arby [with rage] can kill many more early units much more quicly and cheaply than other leaders can. Hogs & Hornets die in droves. I suspect you literally could have a 30 point army of these units and even an early arby would reliably kill them. The other leaders wouldn’t have a chance.

5

> [Of course I play like a newb but] playing vs. anyone that is good at the Aribter [even 1v1] seems harder than playing against any other Covvy leader.
>
> POR at least has to worry about early hogs, reasonably early hornets, and maybe infantry on some maps.
>
> Brute Chieftan has to worry about the same things…
>
> … skill levels are somewhat comparable.
>
>
> Of course I doubt we should even try to go into the “logic” of being able to jump around like a fly and swat down early air power like it was nothing. If Arby had an “easy” counter like any of the other leaders it would certainly be a more fair fight.

Thanks for the support.

6

You’re welcome for the support for what little it means. I still play like a newb so my impressions are certainly not representative of the expert community.

However I may be the king of the play-like-a-newb community …

7

> You’re welcome for the support for what little it means. I still play like a newb so my impressions are certainly not representative of the expert community.
>
> However I may be the king of the play-like-a-newb community …

Sometimes a simplistic approach is best.

Im getting kinda tired of playing the game for wahtever reason, so if you would like some help/tips, shoot me a message or FR on live: cpkbob

8

Are we on the Arbiter AGAIN Bob?

First off, look at the title of this thread. You’re giving people the impression that the Arby is the only thing that upsets the balance, which is plainly false.

Secondly, you said not to mention that he’s useless in ones, but isn’t that one of the most telling facts about him? 1v1 is one leader against one leader, and if the Arby isn’t viable at higher levels, then that means he can’t be that over powered.

Alright, here’s the problem (and I think you already know this), all the stuff you just listed is essentially a spread-sheet. Sure the Arby looks way OP on paper, but the fact is that he isn’t as good as a brute in a rush, and he’ll get merc’d by the prophet if he produces honor guards. The reason he sucks in 1v1 is the fact that he is NOT the cheapest leader. He isn’t the cheapest leader because he’s pretty much useless when he isn’t in rage mode except to slash at undefended bases. The reason he’s so good in teams is that human players can feed him money, and he can take down warthogs early game. The brutes and Prophets both have better rushes, it’s just that the Arby can kill much more easily.

What I will give you is this: the Arby is by far the glitchiest leader. I think that if they fixed all of his glitches, that would solve all of your problems. I.e. if Canies can hit him accurately, and if he wasn’t invincible for so long while he’s invisible. It would also be nice if he didn’t fly all over the place and get stuck all the time. I think the other leaders would be more balanced if they were improved slightly in certain aspects, but if you completely nerfed the Arby like you suggest, there would be no point in playing him.

9

> Are we on the Arbiter AGAIN Bob?
>
> First off, look at the title of this thread. You’re giving people the impression that the Arby is the only thing that upsets the balance, which is plainly false.
>
> Secondly, you said not to mention that he’s useless in ones, but isn’t that one of the most telling facts about him? 1v1 is one leader against one leader, and if the Arby isn’t viable at higher levels, then that means he can’t be that over powered.
>
> Alright, here’s the problem (and I think you already know this), all the stuff you just listed is essentially a spread-sheet. Sure the Arby looks way OP on paper, but the fact is that he isn’t as good as a brute in a rush, and he’ll get merc’d by the prophet if he produces honor guards. The reason he sucks in 1v1 is the fact that he is NOT the cheapest leader. He isn’t the cheapest leader because he’s pretty much useless when he isn’t in rage mode except to slash at undefended bases. The reason he’s so good in teams is that human players can feed him money, and he can take down warthogs early game. The brutes and Prophets both have better rushes, it’s just that the Arby can kill much more easily.
>
> What I will give you is this: the Arby is by far the glitchiest leader. I think that if they fixed all of his glitches, that would solve all of your problems. I.e. if Canies can hit him accurately, and if he wasn’t invincible for so long while he’s invisible. It would also be nice if he didn’t fly all over the place and get stuck all the time. I think the other leaders would be more balanced if they were improved slightly in certain aspects, but if you completely nerfed the Arby like you suggest, there would be no point in playing him.

Oh Ill be all over the arbiter until he is fair. Fair means both better where he is bad, and worse where he is too good.

My post says anyone can talk about anything, and I admitted that I would start with the arbiter, and people like you know that I would. I think he is the most imbalanced part of the game right now, whether he is too strong or too weak, cause he is both in certain areas.

And my post was more a comparison of the leaders, not so much their other units and strategies. But this obviously comes in to play, and is a very much a part of the balance, I just think alot more of the issues are with the arbiter.

And I havent suggested any fix for him, cause to be honest, I couldnt tell you. What I am tired of though is the amount of chance against him. CHANCE/LUCK HAS NO PLACE IN RTS. I shouldnt have to be lucky and hope my canister hits. If I command a unit to attack, I want him to attack, not try to attack. Attack.

I wouldnt care if he had 2x the health, just make my units capable of hitting him.

10

> > Are we on the Arbiter AGAIN Bob?
> >
> > First off, look at the title of this thread. You’re giving people the impression that the Arby is the only thing that upsets the balance, which is plainly false.
> >
> > Secondly, you said not to mention that he’s useless in ones, but isn’t that one of the most telling facts about him? 1v1 is one leader against one leader, and if the Arby isn’t viable at higher levels, then that means he can’t be that over powered.
> >
> > Alright, here’s the problem (and I think you already know this), all the stuff you just listed is essentially a spread-sheet. Sure the Arby looks way OP on paper, but the fact is that he isn’t as good as a brute in a rush, and he’ll get merc’d by the prophet if he produces honor guards. The reason he sucks in 1v1 is the fact that he is NOT the cheapest leader. He isn’t the cheapest leader because he’s pretty much useless when he isn’t in rage mode except to slash at undefended bases. The reason he’s so good in teams is that human players can feed him money, and he can take down warthogs early game. The brutes and Prophets both have better rushes, it’s just that the Arby can kill much more easily.
> >
> > What I will give you is this: the Arby is by far the glitchiest leader. I think that if they fixed all of his glitches, that would solve all of your problems. I.e. if Canies can hit him accurately, and if he wasn’t invincible for so long while he’s invisible. It would also be nice if he didn’t fly all over the place and get stuck all the time. I think the other leaders would be more balanced if they were improved slightly in certain aspects, but if you completely nerfed the Arby like you suggest, there would be no point in playing him.
>
> Oh Ill be all over the arbiter until he is fair. Fair means both better where he is bad, and worse where he is too good.
>
> My post says anyone can talk about anything, and I admitted that I would start with the arbiter, and people like you know that I would. I think he is the most imbalanced part of the game right now, whether he is too strong or too weak, cause he is both in certain areas.
>
> And my post was more a comparison of the leaders, not so much their other units and strategies. But this obviously comes in to play, and is a very much a part of the balance, I just think alot more of the issues are with the arbiter.
>
> And I havent suggested any fix for him, cause to be honest, I couldnt tell you. What I am tired of though is the amount of chance against him. CHANCE/LUCK HAS NO PLACE IN RTS. I shouldnt have to be lucky and hope my canister hits. If I command a unit to attack, I want him to attack, not try to attack. Attack.
>
> I wouldnt care if he had 2x the health, just make my units capable of hitting him.

I completely agree, but everything you just described falls more under glitch fixes than balance fixes. I’d be happy if they both made him get hit more with canny and they took away the invisibility glitch, as long as they also made it so he didn’t fly across the map and get stuck, and so he is more accurate. So I think we’re in agreement, except for the semantic distinction between ‘balance’ and ‘glitch’. Honestly, if they made canister shell more accurate against him, they might actually have to buff him a bit.

Overall, I completely agree, there is no place for chance/luck in an RTS. The Arbiter would be a lot better if he controlled more tightly and was less glitchy. Honestly, if I were to keep him for HW2, I would not only tighten up his controls significantly, but I would give him combos that take skill to pull off. That would really help differentiate the good players from the mediocre. Of course, I’d try to do something similar with the other leaders, otherwise it would be really imbalanced. The Arby and Brute are kinda easy (there’s really no reason the Brute can’t function more like the Arbiter considering he has a hammer), the prophet is the one I have trouble thinking up combos for. But I think someone suggested that he be given a teleporter while the other leaders are given phantoms/spirits. I think that would be enough to differentiate him from the others. It’s an interesting thought at least, and I think it would introduce a gameplay element that really shines on the console controller.

11

> This thread is to list the various balance changes. I dont want this threaed to get into numbers too heavily, but rather focus on qaulitative features of the game that CAN BE SUPPORTED BY EVIDENCE. Please, no flame wars. I understand that alot of what people will post will be interpreted as opinion, so try to keep your civil hats on.
>
> I will start us off, and if you know me at all, you know where I will start.
>
> The arbiter is unfair. Whether he be too strong in teams and too weak otherwise, he is by far the strongest covenant leader (looking at just leaders, not their unique units or other bonuses, jsut the leader). One of the most fundamental reasons he is unfair are the bonuses he recieves through his upgrades.
>
> Lets break it down per covy leader, per upgrade. The asterisks on the right denotes an extra bonus gained.
>
> Prophet:
>
> Chair Upgrade 1: Health/damage
> Chair Upgrade 2: Health/damage
> Chair Upgrade 3: Health/damage/flying******
> Leader Power Upgrade 1: Damage
> Leader Power Upgrade 2: Damage
> Leader Power Upgrade 3: Damage
>
> There is only 1 upgrade for him that changes more than his raw stats, and that is the last chair upgrade that makes him flying, which isnt always an upgrade. This leader sits still while it uses its leader pwoer too, making it an easier target.
>
> Chieftan:
>
> Hammer Upgrade 1: Health/damage/stun******
> Hammer Upgrade 2: Health/damage/pull******
> Hammer Upgrade 3: Health/damage/infantry execute******
> Leader Power Upgrade 1: damage
> Leader Power Upgrade 2: damage
> Leader Power Upgrade 3: damage
>
> A little bit better than the prophet, but still not great. The stun and pull work great in unison, tanks and other vehicles have a hard time competing with this. The last upgrade, 1 shotting stunned infantry, is almost worthless except for spartans. First the infantry has to be stunned, then another hit should 1 shot them> Most infantry die in 2-3 shots from a fully upgraded chieftan, especially if he has 1 star or more. Thus this upgrade extra isnt really taht good, also because a ton of infantry would be vortexed off far easier and faster. This leader sits still while it uses its leader pwoer too, making it an easier target.
>
> And now, THE ARBITER
>
> Sword Upgrade 1: Health/damage/reflect******
> Sword Upgrade 2: Health/damage
> Sword Upgrade 3: Health/damage/reflect/INVIS******
> Leader Power Upgrade 1: Damage/restore health******
> Leader Power Upgrade 2: Damage/cheaper cost******
> Leader Power Upgrade 3: Damage/aura for allies******
>
> As cou can see, the arbiters upgrades make him far superior to the other covy leaders.
>
> The two damage reflects are devastating. Not that warthogs are an option, but if you try to ram him once he is upgraded, your basically throwing away warthogs. This damage reflection is UNIQUE to the arbiter, and it gets way better at tech 3.
>
> And ahh, tech 3 arbiter. As if he needed invisibility. Now, even if you happen to find the arbiter’s swords (invis), you can do anything about it til he starts to attack you, meaning he can completely determine when he want to fight you. And wahts even better, he starts to rage and his invisibility doesnt wear off for A LONG TIME, so he basically has free shots at your army. Ive lost 2 canister shell tanks before I have seen an arby several times. Granted this is more of a glitch, but the glitch is taking advantage of an already huge advantage, which is invisibilty. Not to mention the tactical control you could implement, warping in units wherever you want with no chance of your teleport conduit(leader) going down.
>
> Oh yes, health restore is next. Name any other unit that can heal itself while simultanesouly killing other units? Name any unit like that in ANY RTS EVER? Niether of the other covy leaders has this rediculous ability. This makes countering him very tough too. Where as with other covy leaders, you only need to ask if enough damage will remain in the battle to kill the leader. With the arbiter, you have to judge this damage vs the health he will possibly get back, making it far harder on those trying to fight the arbiter. If you have a d-bomb all of this changes of course, but covy dont have a d-bomb, so they are forced to make extremely hard decisions about engaging the arbiter.
>
> Oh boy, my leader power costs way less. On top of all these other EXTREMELY strong upgrades, the cost to implement them all gets reduced a whole bunch. Now the strongest leader power in the game has also become the CHEAPEST. Cheaper than both prophet and chieftan.
>
> And now, when you finally build units and add a ton of firepower to your already devastating arby, he returns the favor and adds tons of fire pwoer right back. THIS IS THE ONLY POSOTIVE AURA/STATUS EFFECT IN THE GAME. There are no other auras, negative or posotive.
>
> AND LASTLY, HE IS THE ONLY LEADER THAT MOVES WHILE USING LEADER POWER. THIS IS THE WORST PART ABOUT HIM. Nothing hits accurately. Nothing. There is no timing of canister shell, no micro to counter it. The 2 other leaders expose themselves while using their leader power, which makes sense. You substitute security for increased damage. Give and take with a skill factor, a beautiful RTS element. But with the arbiter, there is very little give and all take. He doesnt give up anything by being in rage mode beside invis, he does gain: damage, lifesteal, health(through missed attacks), moespeed, relfective armor, and an aura for allies.
>
> Summary:
>
> Arbiter has SEVERAL UNIQUE features to him. He is the only unit that posses these traits, and he has multiple.
>
> 1. Reflect Damage
> 2. Restore health while attacking
> 3. Cheaper leader power
> 4. Move while leader powering
> 5. Aura for allies
> 6. Invisibility
>
> I have posted stuff about teh arbiter before, but not as detailed as this. I had my share of criticism then, and I am sure I will now, but I find the above to be proof rather than opinion. I dont want responses like “use tanks right” or “time your canister” or “the arbiter sucks in 1v1”. None of those disprove the fact that he is an imbalanced unit, and far too strong in way too many respects.

this is too long and sounds like a rant… so I didn’t read.

12

> this is too long and sounds like a rant… so I didn’t read.

TL:DR version: Arbiter is op.

13

> > this is too long and sounds like a rant… so I didn’t read.
>
> TL:DR version: Arbiter is op.

That’s what I caught the gist of. it’s a shame that’s not the case, because I like Arbiter, he just dies too easily in a crowd.

The REAL inbalance in the game is once again tanks and banshees, even in ones, where those units are harder to get. the game does need some balance, but it’s not the leaders.

14

> > > this is too long and sounds like a rant… so I didn’t read.
> >
> > TL:DR version: Arbiter is op.
>
> That’s what I caught the gist of. it’s a shame that’s not the case, because I like Arbiter, he just dies too easily in a crowd.
>
> The REAL inbalance in the game is once again tanks and banshees, even in ones, where those units are harder to get. the game does need some balance, but it’s not the leaders.

Well, the Arbiter is the best support leader by far. He’s also very, very glitchy. I agree though, if they were to fix something it should be so that 2s and 3s aren’t a race to tanks and banshees. Really, tanks just need to be slower. Same with banshees. Speed kills. Maybe buff some other things too (wraiths, grunts, marines, make cobras lock down better/quicker etc.). The Arby just needs his glitchiness fixed, then you can balance him as needed.

Shame none of this will happen.

15

While [as an almost UNSC only player] I’m of the opinion that the Arbiter is BY FAR the strongest early leader I will agree that all of the glitches / bugs / etc. should be fixed first. Once that’s done good stats can be gathered and a plan to balance Arby in 1v1, teamplay, deathmatch, etc. can be made.

As far as using a D-Bomb that is certainly helpful. However the recharge time on a D-Bomb is so long that you can’t really use that as your primary counter. Ways need to exist to handle Arby without having to resort to the UNSC’s best nuke.

Even then unless you time the D-Bomb perfectly and lay it in the perfect spot Arby will just run outside of the radius of the bomb and continue doing his thing.

While I agree that the UNSC has many Tech 3 & Tech 4 counters to Arby where are the T1 and T2 counters to Arby that can be used without needing a D-Bomb? Do any effective counters exist that also will help vs. Banshees or other units if Arby tries to make a push??

Where are the relatively “newb friendly” counters that don’t need [comparatively] high levels of skill, scouting, timing to pull off? If they exist do they also help with a wave of Banshees that may come if you sell out on something like a Flamer? With a fast Arby how do you get Flamers in position to really help???

Does anyone have full leader vs. leader stats?? I’d be curious to see stats vs. UNSC ; stats on game time ; etc. I’d be shocked if the Arby doesn’t have a VERY good record vs. UNSC opponnents of TrueSkill 25 & less.

16

> While [as an almost UNSC only player] I’m of the opinion that the Arbiter is BY FAR the strongest early leader I will agree that all of the glitches / bugs / etc. should be fixed first. Once that’s done good stats can be gathered and a plan to balance Arby in 1v1, teamplay, deathmatch, etc. can be made.
>
> *****************
>
> As far as using a D-Bomb that is certainly helpful. However the recharge time on a D-Bomb is so long that you can’t really use that as your primary counter. Ways need to exist to handle Arby without having to resort to the UNSC’s best nuke.
>
> Even then unless you time the D-Bomb perfectly and lay it in the perfect spot Arby will just run outside of the radius of the bomb and continue doing his thing.
>
> *****************
>
> While I agree that the UNSC has many Tech 3 & Tech 4 counters to Arby where are the T1 and T2 counters to Arby that can be used without needing a D-Bomb? Do any effective counters exist that also will help vs. Banshees or other units if Arby tries to make a push??
>
> Where are the relatively “newb friendly” counters that don’t need [comparatively] high levels of skill, scouting, timing to pull off? If they exist do they also help with a wave of Banshees that may come if you sell out on something like a Flamer? With a fast Arby how do you get Flamers in position to really help???
>
> *****************
>
> Does anyone have full leader vs. leader stats?? I’d be curious to see stats vs. UNSC ; stats on game time ; etc. I’d be shocked if the Arby doesn’t have a VERY good record vs. UNSC opponnents of TrueSkill 25 & less.

Go check the old HW website. Yup, the Arby is op in teams, but that’s because he kills hogs really easily and he can be fed money. There are definitely ways to counter him though, flamers is just one.

Also, who cares about anything that happens at TrueSkill 25 or less? That’s all completely meaningless.

17

> > While [as an almost UNSC only player] I’m of the opinion that the Arbiter is BY FAR the strongest early leader I will agree that all of the glitches / bugs / etc. should be fixed first. Once that’s done good stats can be gathered and a plan to balance Arby in 1v1, teamplay, deathmatch, etc. can be made.
> >
> > *****************
> >
> > As far as using a D-Bomb that is certainly helpful. However the recharge time on a D-Bomb is so long that you can’t really use that as your primary counter. Ways need to exist to handle Arby without having to resort to the UNSC’s best nuke.
> >
> > Even then unless you time the D-Bomb perfectly and lay it in the perfect spot Arby will just run outside of the radius of the bomb and continue doing his thing.
> >
> > *****************
> >
> > While I agree that the UNSC has many Tech 3 & Tech 4 counters to Arby where are the T1 and T2 counters to Arby that can be used without needing a D-Bomb? Do any effective counters exist that also will help vs. Banshees or other units if Arby tries to make a push??
> >
> > Where are the relatively “newb friendly” counters that don’t need [comparatively] high levels of skill, scouting, timing to pull off? If they exist do they also help with a wave of Banshees that may come if you sell out on something like a Flamer? With a fast Arby how do you get Flamers in position to really help???
> >
> > *****************
> >
> > Does anyone have full leader vs. leader stats?? I’d be curious to see stats vs. UNSC ; stats on game time ; etc. I’d be shocked if the Arby doesn’t have a VERY good record vs. UNSC opponnents of TrueSkill 25 & less.
>
> Go check the old HW website. Yup, the Arby is op in teams, but that’s because he kills hogs really easily and he can be fed money. There are definitely ways to counter him though, flamers is just one.
>
> Also, who cares about anything that happens at TrueSkill 25 or less? That’s all completely meaningless.

The stat sheet from Halowars.com doest not include:

Leaders
Buidlings
Neutrals

I asked on the forums there several times right after they released that spread sheet for them to add those 3 groups. Never happened.

Sure flamers can counter an arbiter, buy they cant counter air.
Thats 1 huge imbalance about the arbiter: No warthogs. Your best chnace is with flamers, but then his air comes and you are done for. Most good arbiters work into air against UNSC because they know this. With the other covy leaders, warthogs work fine, and prevent an early air rush.

18

Another rediculous in game mechanic that I noticed that needs to be fixed, and it might not be possible in Halo Wars 1, but for number 2.

We all know the unit pathing/collision is terrible in this game. But I have thought of something recently.

There are many map features such as craters, fissures, and others. When warthogs/ghosts hit these, they slow down terribly and act as if they just turned onto a round-about. Sometimes theyll jump them, sometimes not and get kinda stuck/slowed down. Now when you have 10 warthogs passing here, each taking this jump differently, it really screws with uniot control/function. They start acting like the 3(or however many warthogs you have) stooges. It seems to happen to only vehicles, not infantry. Ive seen some of the most bizarre warthog driving due to these features.

I jsut dont understand why this is part of the game. The graphics are cool for the map, keep em, but why do they have to interfere with gameplay, and thats all they do, interfere. They cant be used for cover or anything else, they only detract from gameplay due to their physical nature, not aesthetic.

They, more often than not, slow you down, which makes no sense. You maintain a constant speed through the physical feature until you reach an uphill point on it, which slows you down. So why doesnt the downhill part speed me up? I might run a test tonight to see if gravity is implemented correctly, as in warthogs faster downhill and slower up, cause this doesnt seem to be the case.

This might be kinda ticky tacky, but I think it shows the rushed and unpolished method from which the halo wars unit pathing/collison was created. They want so many things to be physically represented taht there is no elbow room.

If anyone has a hard time understanding what I mean about unit pathing/collison, watch a SC2 video on you tube, and see how well the game allows for movement/control of units.

19

Has a Halo Wars sequel even been confirmed? I’ve been out of the loop for a while.

20

> Has a Halo Wars sequel even been confirmed? I’ve been out of the loop for a while.

No, this is just pure self indulgence on our part.